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Saga Mind Connection Theory: Vader and Luke (TLJ Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Visor, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    This contains spoilers for TLJ.

    So in TLJ, we see that Snoke is able to create a mind connection between Rey and Kylo Ren. What if the Emperor did a similar thing in Empire and ROTJ between Luke and Vader?

    After their fight on Bespin, we see Luke and Vader able to connect with each other in a way that (I interpret at least) to be close to that of Rey and Kylo Ren. Meaning, I believe, that they are able to see each other's forms and hear each other speak, but not able to see each other's surroundings. One can believe this is a natural connection the force forms between them being that they are father and son, or that their fates are intertwined, etc., but what if the Emperor created this connection to bring them together again?

    What if the Emperor created a connection between them so that Luke would be drawn to Vader again, so that he could seduce him to the Dark Side and replace Vader, rather than just relying on fate to have Luke come to Vader again?
     
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    1. He didn't.
    2. But for the sake of argument, assuming that he had done that, it would cheapen the point of the story and every character involved.
    3. Vader can speak to Luke the same way Luke can speak to Leia. He had the intent and reached out through the Force due to him being nearby.
     
  3. Darth Weavile

    Darth Weavile Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2017
    4. George Lucas didn't make TLJ, so the things that happen in that movie doesn't imply to his films.
     
  4. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    1. Thank you, arbiter of the Star Wars, for setting me, a humble and idiot prole in my place.
    2. Don't worry. Next time, I will think before I speak and cheapen the sanctimonious ground the Star Wars is founded on.
    3. Hmm, perhaps true, but imagine if I, a viewer of the Star Wars, also had the intent and reached out through the force and was able to create a fun fan theory? Wait, wait, wait, imagine this scenario except the first comment is incredibly condescending! Perfect! Oi, Imagine if this fantasy were a reality.

    I can see the logic here, but I'm not sure I agree because Disney owns the canon of the original Trilogy too and can make choices that change the implications of those films retroactively.
     
    Martoto77 likes this.
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Not sure what you're getting at here, but whatever...

    What exactly did you expect? Praise?

    You're the one who created a thread about it. Don't be surprised if people question, argue and dissect your "fan theory" or share their genuine opinion about it.
     
  6. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    What's this supposed to mean? Your phrasing was objectively rude and condescending.

    Yes, please, I only ever do anything for praise. Oh please, Alexrd, validate me.

    You do realize you can... you know... talk about something without being condescending? I mean this right here is condescending? Do you realize that, right? What else could you possibly have been attempting to do when you put the words "fan theory" in quotes, dude? And frankly, why would I want to hear out someone's questions, arguments, or dissections of an idea I came up with when their first response is to talk down to me?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  7. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    But what I expected was common courtesy and respect of all user's opinions. Enough.
     
  8. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    While Snoke says he bridged their minds, the connection between Rey and Kylo was apparently formed in Force Awakens (probably when Kylo was trying to get the location of Skywalker from Rey). So either Snoke is totally lying or he's making their chats happen. However, we still see them connected after Snoke is dead? So it's entirely possible Snoke had nothing to do with it.
     
  9. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jan 25, 2018
    I totally agree that it's possible that the Mind Connection formed outside of Snoke, and I think watching both FA and TLJ from that angle is very interesting.
     
  10. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    TLJ implies that Snoke is telling the truth, with Kylo immediately observing that the connection can't be Rey's doing (and obviously, he knows it wasn't his).
    Snoke admits to bridging their minds, but he doesn't say that he's done it more than once. My interpretation is that he only needed to open the door for them and let them do the rest on their own.
     
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  11. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jan 25, 2018
    This is what I think it probably the truth. While I think it's interesting to think that Snoke was lying, I think the truth is that he did actually bridge the minds, unless something in the next movie proves this wrong.
     
  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    IT's a nice idea.

    The deleted scene from ROTJ though, implies that Vader wouldn't need the Emperor to link his mind to his son's. Nor did Luke need anyone else to link his mind to Leia's.
     
  13. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    The deleted scene starts at 1:16 minutes



    (it's obviously a scene shot for ESB Lucas recycled here but created new dialogue for James Earl Jones, I'd pay real money to learn about the original context of this Vader pod scene from ESB).

    But the link doesn't go that far, that both could learn where the other one is. In ROJ Vader wants to resume his search for Luke but the Emperor tells him to be patient and that Luke will come to him. Vader's reaction is somewhat odd, to say the least: "He will come to me?"

    I think this reveals that the Emperor has not told Vader his plan how he intends to crush the Alliance. But as his plan involves the entire Alliance fleet, Palpatine is very confident that Luke Skywalker will be part of the plan and arrive near the Death Star, one way or the other - and re-establish the link with his father once both are closer to one another.
     
  14. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    But I wondered if that was the fact they were related. As of now, Rey and Kylo Ren aren't.
     
  15. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    Perhaps they nevertheless feel an attachment to each other. And that blood relations are not necessary.
     
  16. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jan 25, 2018
    Snoke says that he believed that Kylo Ren's counterpart on the light side of the force would rise, perhaps the linking of their destinys is why they are able to connect?

    I personally don't believe that blood relations are necessary.
     
  17. Darth Visor

    Darth Visor Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Snoke says that he believed that Kylo Ren's counterpart on the light side of the force would rise, perhaps the linking of their destinys is why they are able to connect?

    I personally don't believe that blood relations are necessary.
     
  18. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Agreed. They can communicate telepathically because they are strong with the Force (and maybe because they are now familiar with each other's presence). That's all there is to it.

    The footage might be from TESB, but the dialogue sounds to me like bits and pieces from TESB and ROTJ that have been cut together. I don't think JEJ was involved.