Minority Report - Symbols and Themes (spoilers)

That is one way to look at it, but why would his dreams include his friend killing himself? Personally I think those dreams would of included his son.

 

I avoided this thread untill I could see the movie.
I just got back, I loved it.

Symbolism? The Precogs..there were three, a holy trinity.
I noticed during the factory fight scene that Anderton almost gets his arm stuck on the assembly line much like Anakin does in AOTC.
The great suspense of this film was if he would actually kill his victim, the whole set up to that point was great.

 

it was a good movie! I actually want to go see it again.

 

In the flashback parts where Max Von Sydow's character murdered Agatha's mother by tricking the pre-cops into the 'echo' effect, why didn't the pre-cogs send a little ball rolling with Sydow's character's name as the murderer, as well as the guy who he hired to kill her knowing that he'd get arrested?

 

I would assume the computer just filtered it out.

Another eye thing that I noticed today was the woman at the begining cutting the eyes out of the picture. There is alot of stuff going on there.

If someone can tell me. Why does everyone compare this to Matrix ? One of my friends wouldn't go see it cause he said it looked to much like Matrix. Am I the only one that thinks thats like comparing Citizen Kane to Armagedon.

 

I think what Taz_Jinn meant when he compaired it to the Matrix is that it's one of those movies that either you understand it and like it, or you just don't care for it. There was some local radio guy giving Minority Report a bad review, and he had a big problem with all the futuristic stuff and the precogs ability to see the future. I guess some people just don't have enough room in their imagination for Minority Report or the Matrix.

As for your friend compairing it to the Matrix, I don't know. The only thing the two movies have in common is special effects. Has your friend even seen the Matrix?

 

I hated The Matrix, but I loved Minority Report. I really didn't see much resemblance between the two. I'd relate MR more to films like Gattaca than The Matrix. MR was good, deep sci-fi. The Matrix was bad, shallow action with a shoddy sci-fi-esque facade to give the slightly more intellectual fans something to enjoy (and I don't believe there were that many intellectual fans, which is why the majority of the film is devoted to the glorification of violence and all that stuff-- but that's a whole different thread). There's really no comparison.

 

I think the slightly dark tones of both film and the fact that Science Fiction movies are not very common are responsible for the comparisons to The Matrix.

I've heard the dream theory before, but if it's true, then what motive was there for Anderton's friend to shoot that investigator guy? (Sorry, I don't remember half of the names from the movie.)

 

My deal with putting it upagainst the Matrix is that both are 'layered' movies. There is more than one thing going on in the movie. At first we are trying to figure out how he will get out of commiting this murder, but then we end up trying to figure out who the real bad guy is. Everything is based on symbolisim (i hate that word for some reason) and small things seem to have a deeper meaning.

You are right, compairing the two movies is like comparing LotR and Star Wars. both have some strong similarties in how they are written, but they have nothing to do with each other.

 

The Matrix was layered?

 

yup... by the way are you related to LtSticks?

Anyhow the whole movie was laced with a religious theme and others...

 

I picked up on something during my last viewing that some might find interesting (other might just find it funny or stupid )

Some of you may be familar with the Beard and food theories in the AOTC forum. Basicaly boiled down one of the theories says that in SW movies beard=good, no beard=bad.

It looks to me like Mr. Speilbergo has been reading these boards as well.

Watch Danny Witwer's progression as a character through the eyes of the audience. When we first meet him he is just the mediling Federal agent. Soon we start to fear (like Anderton) that Danny boy is setting our hero up. By the end we realize that Danny has no personal vendeta against John he is just out for justice and he even belives in John's innocence.

Boiled down he goes from bad to good in our eyes. At the same time he goes from some light scruff in the begining to a full on mustache and gotee in the end.

 

That was the deepest movie I've seen for a while. According to Gideon (Worst. Organ grinder. Ever.) being put in prison was like being fast asleep and dreaming. Interesting prison...but since they'd done nothing you can hardly physically or mentally punish them.

And is it just me or was that the biggest GAP/Lexus ad in history?

 

Yes!! I noticed that too! Gap, Lexus and Pepsi all got a lot of add time in that movie... At least we know that some things will never change in the future
What is really funny though is that AMC sells coke products.... actually I don't think I've ever been in a movie theater that sold pepsi stuff...

 

This movie--just like AI--was a waste of £3 and three hours that I could have spent on Star Wars books. I do not intend to see any more Spielberg films if I can possibly avoid it.

Let's start with the vastly overdone technology. Evidently CDs and DVDs will be replaced by weird glass plate things that slot into more weird glass plate things within the next fifty years, even though there would appear to be no ergonomic or technological benefit (I like my computer as it is, thankyou very much, and I see no reason to turn it into some magically empowered sheet of glass). Nevermind that some of our prisons have changed little in over 100 years; say goodbye to the simple cell (you know, that old-fashioned room with bars on the front) and prepare, if you commit a crime in the future, to be imprisoned in a huge vertical column, which will have replaced conventional prisons because the glowing letters at the top look cool. And, of course, simple, easily produced, easily used handcuffs really can't compete with glorified headphones that, presumably, play music awful enough to immobilise the prisoner.

Next, movies generally follow something called "logic". A concept that Spielberg seems to have taken leave of, for the film is utterly drenched in irrationality. It seems that the PreCogs do not make predictions--where current events are likely to lead--but they actually see the future itself. This is required by the bull**** technobabble explanation for why they only see murders: "Nothing upsets the metaphysical fabric of the cosmos more than murder", or something to that effect. So how can the PreCogs possibly predict a murder, if it is destined to be stopped by PreCrime because of that prediction? It's an unsolvable paradox, and one that the film does not give the slightest attention to. Why can the PreCrime team intervene to stop a murder, when nobody else--least of all the murderer--is able to? Another example, if required, is found in the film's title. It seems that a prediction made by Agatha, but not by the other two, would prove the system unreliable. It is never explained why a "minority report" would prove that the system didn't work. Wouldn't an inaccurate prediction made by all three PreCogs be a better way to discredit the system (which, incidentally, John could have brought about simply by hiding in a basement somewhere until the predicted murder time had expired. He was obviously safe in the eye replacement clinic; why could he not just, instead of having his eyes replaced, wait there until the countdown had finished?)

The scene in the clinic, by the way, seemed to serve no discernable purpose. Why such an enterprise, looking for customers, would stock a fridge with rotten provisions is beyond me. Perhaps Spielberg should make a sci-fi horror movie in which he can torture the characters to his heart's content (the acid scene from AI could be thrown in there, to start with). Additionally, why would John be permanently blinded if the bandages were removed? Couldn't he just pay for another set of eyes?

The ending was...interesting. Everyone was let out with a full pardon and they all lived happily ever after. How lovely. Except that American public opinion continues to support capital punishment by a substantial majority, notwithstanding the many cases of innocents being executed. Why would a system that had prevented countless murders be utterly disbanded because of one erroneous prediction?

The film failed totally to address the moral and philosophical implications of "PreCrime". It can be summed up in three words: it didn't work. PreCrime is abandoned because it made an inaccurate prediction, because it wasn't faultless. Outside of five seconds' discussion at the start, the film tells us nothing about whether it would be right to lock people up for things they were going to do (as opposed to things they did) or whether it would be acceptable to enslave three innocent PreCogs. It was not really a study of the whole PreCrime idea, but an elaborate technological failure that demonstrated no

 

I'm going to address the title quickly - I've only seen the movie once, so I don't feel qualified to address the rest of your problems with the movie.

It is never explained why a "minority report" would prove that the system didn't work. Wouldn't an inaccurate prediction made by all three PreCogs be a better way to discredit the system?

Yes, an inaccurate prediction by all three PreCogs - what happened at the end - is a better way to discredit the system, and ultimately did. However, the developers of the system said it was flawless, which was its greatest flaw. If there was no flaw in the system, then they would only need one PreCog for it all to work; however, (in what I consider to be Spielberg's greatest oversight in the entire film) the reason why all three were needed was not explained. But if these three did not agree, then there was some kind of flaw in the system - if they disagreed with each other on how a murder is to take place, then the murder might not take place at all. Therefore, the title Minority Report reflects one of many flaws in the system, and the treatment of the minority reports in the movie reflect the biggest theme of all - how a system can be created only to have it come apart at the seams that supposedly don't exist.

Mel

 

I've been reading the original PKD short story. While it isn't the same as the film, some of the ideas remain relatively unchanged. Mind if I quote from it?

On the necessity of having three precogs:

"... the system of three precogs finds its genesis in the computers of the middle decades of this century. How are the results of an electronic computer checked? By feeding the data to a second computer of identical design. But two computers are not sufficient. If each computer arrived at a different answer it is impossible to tell a priori which is correct. The solution, based on a careful study of statistical method, is to utilize a third computer to check the results of the first two. In this manner, a so-called majority report is obtained. It can be assumed with fair probability that the agreement of two out of three computers indicates which of the alternative results is accurate. It would not be likely that two computers would arrive at identically incorrect solutions - "

On why the crimes can still be prevented:

"... unanimity of all three precogs is a hoped-for but seldom-achieved phenomenon, acting-Commissioner Witwer explains. It is much more common to obtain a collaborative majority report of two precogs, plus a minority report of some slight variation, usually with reference to time and place, from the third mutant. This is explained by the theory of multiple-futures. If only one time-path existed, precognitive information would be of no importance, since no possibility would exist, in possessing this information, of altering the future."

 

Nice commentaries Jeff, I didn't "see" everything that was mentioned in your posts.

Dev, thanks for the additional info from the novel.

 

A very tardy response to Taz_Jinn's July 8th post, back up on the middle of this page:

Laced with religious themes, yes, but not layered. The Matrix had glaringly obvious references to the Bible and other religious books, but all that clever writing did absolutely nothing for the film itself. Minority Report, on the other hand, actually had something to say and the methods of saying it, and that's one major reason I draw a distinction between the two.

And no, I'm not related to LtSticks. I'm the original Sticks. Accept no substitutes.

I'll leave you with a deep thought:

"And whether you suffer from glaucoma or just rented The Matrix, medical marijuana can make anything seem fabulous!"--Homer Simpson

 

I picked up on an odd one the other day while watching it again.

During the part where Anderton injects himself with the face melter in the back ground the tour guide is telling all of these lies about how the precogs live.

I couldn't help but think that there had to be some kind of symbolism behind that but I couldn't come up with anything better than they were both faces that needed to be put on.

 

Interesting observation... The tour guide disguises the precogs' true condition, while Anderton disguises himself. And while the tour guide is telling the children this for the purpose of keeping precrime in business, Anderton is masquerading for the purpose of exposing it for what it is.

Once again, I'm amazed at how layered this film is... A.I. is nothing compared to this.

 

I really love this movie and I have fond memories of seeing it on opening night.

However, last time I watched it I realized a problem that it had. And if someone wants to set me straight, please do so, because I'd like to think this was intentional:

What is the point of them arresting John Anderton only for his wife to set him free two scenes later? It seemed pointless.

EDIT: Another question: When Witwer (Colin Farrell) is going over the Ann Lively murder with Lamar, he states that the stream Agatha saw was from a different day compared to the streams the twins saw, but when Agatha's stream is played at the end of the movie, it seems as if Lamar killed her right after Pre-crime prevented the hired/decoy murder (Yet another question: why did the pre-crime cops just leave Lively completely alone in the woods after arresting her attempted murderer? They didn't do that at the beginning of the film when they arrested Howard Marks). So did Ann Lively's actual murder take place on the same day that Pre-crime had just saved her, or was Witwer right that the actual murder (Agatha's stream) took place on a different day?

 

I'm sorry, but how could anyone argue that it's not? There are many religious themes and symbols, if you're willing to look beneath it's cyber-punk surface instead of simply dismissing it as an action film. In fact, when it comes to symbols and themes,--the subject of this thread--I'd say that The Matrix is richer than Minority Report. Even the sequels, while not so great in execution, had great ideas.

The Matrix was a fusion of most of the greatest Sci-Fi ideas of the 20th Century.

I like how Darren Aronofsky put it after seeing The Matrix the first time: "Suddenly Philip K. Dick doesn't seem so fresh anymore."

 

Stardude is absolutely right, the Matrix works on lots of levels.

For me, the level that it works best on is very simple. The subconscious level. I read somewhere that movies work best when they "give the audience to itself." Neo represents people of all kinds who are "asleep" to the possibilities within them. Neo "wakes" up and begins to explore how much potential he has inside him. He becomes a "new" person and of course "Neo" means new. That's a very encouraging message and highly appealing. You might say the matrix represents the constricting reality most people never see beyond, a cage if you will. All the other stuff that is in the film is window dressing. It's very cool window dressing I'll admit, all that style and action and effects. But it's the awakening of Neo's potential and the breaking down of the illusionary environment that hooks the audience. Because that's their own life. Morpheus even states this with crystal clarity at one point in the film, when they are on the sidewalk with the crowd. He says something to the effect of "all these people are asleep, they haven't woken up yet." Boy, if that isn't the world we live in today, I don't know what is.

On a different level and subject, the Matrix borrows from 2001's theme of not allowing machines to run everything because sooner or later you become too dependent on technology and it will take over and run amuck.