Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

Federal Judge blocks suspension over 'rapist' note.

 

Harvey Weinstein is paying millions of dollars to lawyers and getting more due process than anyone else would be. Personally, I think he should have been locked up during this trial. He deserves public disdain. He is one of the worst people on Earth.

 

This forum is rapidly morphing into a repository of Satele stating the obvious.

 

I think most of us are stating the obvious at this point.

 

I'd prefer a repository for clothing donations for the homeless.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...MTYY2iN_RDyXY1VWg206G10CU_1blgYwISAvcJcRNHfsQ

The judge says that the court will not be terribly understanding if Weinstein's health prevents him from attending his trial in January. This ******* deserves a lengthy sentence, and I'm glad that he's having to pay millions as it is.

 

Agree with your second paragraph.

 

What in the actual **** is this nonsense at a progressive site?

 

Develop your thoughts.

 

What do you think is the actual nonsense?

 

"... also emphasizes that in part, it's a product of a lack of decent economic opportunities and a broader loss of meaning in the US."

Sorry, no. Misogyny doesn't need a lack of decent economic opportunities and "broader loss of meaning"... this is like the new "economic anxiety" (when the answer is "racism")...

For instance, there's a decent case to be made that the rise in violent youth in the 1970s/early-1980s can be linked to a statistically-significant correlation to lead=based gasoline exhaust (I'm not saying it's bulletproof, I'm just saying there is a case to be made based on actual studies) -- this is a medical explanation for a behavioral change. Okay, fair (in theory)! However, attempting to give -- largely white -- young men an "out" for their terrible behavior based on non-medical explanations is not great, Bob...

 

That quote isn't attempting to explain misogyny. It's talking about incel subculture. There's more to incel subculture than just misogyny. Unemployment is very high among incels. Being unemployed, they sit around playing video games and hanging out in various online incel communities.

Idk, this total lack of participation in society might have something to do with him being an incel.

 

There's likely nothing anyone can say to me to get me to believe that someone believing that a woman owes them sex ("involuntarily celibate") has anything to do with the economy.

I can absolutely believe that an over reliance on videogaming is due to chronic unemployment -- I'd be there myself! But the instant you use the term incel, you lose me.

 

Uh, that's not how I see that term. At all. I've never even heard of anyone taking it that way. This is the first time.

Involuntarily celibate just means you want sex but aren't getting it. Not necessarily that you are owed sex. While a ton of them think they are owed sex, this isn't necessarily implicit in the definition.

Can you believe being an economic loser who is unemployed, lives with his mother, has no money, no transportation, etc can lead to one being left out of the dating game (so to speak)? In that case, one wants sex, but isn't getting it, due to chronic unemployment.

 

I do think there are explanations as to why these subcultures are forming and evolving today, especially today, but that doesn't mean they're excused from those beliefs, or whatever actions they commit, or that I think we need to sympathize with them. I do think that the American Dream/Myth these people believed in and thought they were owed, whether it's a job, a house, or a gf/wife, and didn't get, has led them to blame and scapegoat, falsely, the group for whom they think took it from them. But again, anyone who thinks they're owed a wife, as if it's a piece of property like a house, already has misogynistic views. The failing economy only re-enforced whatever notions and beliefs they brewing in them already, or were developing. I don't think it would have created it on its own.

 

Yeah, that's... not the most common version of incel there.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/reddit-incel-involuntary-celibate-men-ban
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/25/17277496/incel-toronto-attack-alek-minassian
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/25/us/incel-rebellion-alek-minassian-toronto-attack-trnd/index.html

This earlier article roughly details the difference between places like /r/ForeverAlone vs. /r/incel:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ne-of-the-internets-most-reviled-subcultures/

 

Back to the Jacobin article; it's talking about the subculture. It's just talking about the things incels do as they sit around doing nothing. Those things are, in part, the products of unemployment.

I don't know what it is that got to you. The suggestion that incels are people affected by lack of economic participation? Too bad, it's true.

The article isn't all that sympathetic. It goes out of its way, multiple times, to repeatedly remind you that these people are violent, misogynist scum. Also often true. It doesn't pretend they aren't resentful misogynists. It says they are as many times as possible.

The article is peppered with comments like this one:

Just letting you know, over and over, that the article condemns the toxic behavior of incels.

While the article is eager to point out that none of this is justification, in fact it's terrified that you might think otherwise, it seems to appreciate that incels are people, and that their lives are complex. It appreciates this "richer portrait" of incels.

Reminding you one more time:

The article couldn't be any more skittish. The article condemns incels many times.


Just seems like you got triggered by an article that wasn't 100% "nyaaaaaahhhhhh incels suck and that's all there is to them".

 

The cultural phenomenon of incels is part of the superstructure, and as such it must be considered not alone, but rather in its dynamics with the substructure, that is the economic realities in which the incels live.

 

Someone described incels as “narcissists who failed” and I still feel it’s the best description.

The idea that they are more than that – especially, that they are also victims of capitalism - is a much more appealing explanation, sure. I’m just not convinced. Elliot Rodger was still a student and son of a Hollywood filmmaker; the Toronto van killer was also a 20-something student and software/app developer. There may have been a few shooters who were unemployed/not doing anything at home, but that doesn’t seem to be a defining characteristic (it could also be that this documentary handpicked subjects with this common trait just to help craft its intended narrative).

I read the Jacobin article and still... it kinda sounds like it’s yet another documentary about misunderstood while males from entirely their POV, despite the (article) author’s attempts at making it about neoliberalism. I’m also suspecting that this “it’s the economy!” narrative, which seems to be replacing the previous “they’re just autistic!” narrative, comes from 4chan and is now being eagerly swallowed by gullible leftist media because… well, it’s a better story than saying some humans are just trash and a socialist society won’t fix them.
Of course, not everything is black and white and there will always be some more complex cases in the mix.

 

The problem of this mindset is that it leads absolutely nowhere. You express a moral condemnation and then you are left with nothing. No attempts at improving the situation and no chances for a more broad analysis. This approach to studying society is not very different from the tendency by centrists of blaming Trump's victory on racism and sexism uniquely.
I believe that we can rather have a discussion about the roots of incels' sense of alienation, and this does not imply that we are justifying them by any means.

 

^
Because I don’t think every manifestation of narcissistic frustration or human sadistic fantasy can be just explained away with some kind of simplistic Marxist class struggle answer. I can’t explain Pol Pot, I can’t explain the KKK, the same way I can’t explain incels, and after myself having spent weeks in the past skimming through incel rape fantasy posts in an attempt to, uh, “understand” them… I don’t think they’re worth anyone’s effort, sorry.

It’s possible though, some actually empathetic souls find themselves trapped in this toxic community because of other reasons like unemployment and capitalism woes. I just don’t think that’s THE thing that explains the existence of this sub-community in the first place – at least, I’m not convinced by that.