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Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

Discussion in 'Community' started by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Hmm "doesn't need to rape", interesting phrasing - so it's an entirely voluntary, deliberate choice to do so then.
     
  2. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I've never visited that, but I just assumed it was a parody of r/gaming, much like how r/moviescirclejerk is a parody of r/movies. I'll check it out!
     
  3. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    It is a parody of r/gaming on the whole..but lately that's also extended to being a parody of, say, The Last of Us haters or people who think hating women and minorities is a staple of being a "Gamer". And usually in a pretty funny way!
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    So apparently Uday did not say the quote I posted earlier. My fault for not fact-checking before I posted it. [face_blush]:(
     
  5. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    It's all good.
     
  6. Juliet316

    Juliet316 SFTC NFL Bonanza Winner star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    To be fair, it does seem like something one of Trump's sons would say.
     
  7. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I don't understand what any of this has to do with nerds or incels or whatever. There's this weird need among progressives to put all the faults of misogyny upon nerds even though a lot of what's being discussed is being done by "normal people." Can we please change the title of the thread? Literally none of this has to do with nerds or incels. Sex-havers are plenty misogynistic.
     
  8. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    It was the original article:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds-1
     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Yes, but if this thread is going to be discussing stuff pertaining to non-nerds, don't you think it's only right that the title be changed to reflect that? Otherwise it's basically talking about the bad behaviors of non-nerds but still blaming nerds for misogyny, which is something sjws/progressives seem to like to do.

    Literally nothing in this discussion has to do with nerds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  10. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    *** glances at all of us ***

    :p
     
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  11. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Neither Trump nor his kids are nerds. This is misogyny that has nothing to do with nerds.

    Unless you think misogyny is inherently something that comes from nerds and only nerds?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m open to changing the title to something along the lines of “Incel culture.” I posted the (fake) quote here instead of the Feminism thread because it pertained more specifically to incels, which has been a large part of the discussion here.

    I agree that it has nothing to do with nerds, and I do not think and never have thought that nerds were the problem. GamerGate ***holes are not the way they are because they are nerds, it’s because they want to co-opt the term and pretend it only belongs to misogynistic ***holes.
     
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  13. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Not even incels though, plenty of sex-havers are misogynistic
     
  14. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    That's why I tried to steer it back. Because most of the stuff posted here just belongs in the feminism thread.
     
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  15. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Living a virtual life online with little to no IRL human contact is a thing stereotypically associated with nerds, and I think it is legitimate to take a look at what effect socializing largely or solely in sequestered online communities has on people's basic functioning. Getting one's sexual and emotional needs met is one type of functioning.

    I don't think your average incel would be a very happy or well-adjusted individual even if he gave up the internet entirely, so in a way there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to some men's inability to relate well to women. However, I think spending many hours a day physically alone but involved in virtual chat sessions with other angry, alienated men who reinforce your most maladaptive coping mechanisms is a way to make everything worse. That sort of toxic environment might not succeed in making an emotionally-healthy man into a misogynist (not least because I doubt a healthy man would stay involved), but it could make a quiet, self-destructive sort of misogynist into one who externalizes his anger and becomes overtly dangerous to women.

    Belief in human hierarchies in general and the patriarchy in specific cause an uncountable number of ills, enough to fill up the front page of this messageboard with threads devoted to different facets of the same crap. Why use this thread to focus on the mostly-white, mostly-cis, heterosexual male segment of nerddom that sometimes goes by the name of "incels?" Why not? Whether it is a real "growing problem" or not (and I think it might be), it's something that has been brought to people's attention, and some want to talk about it. I don't see that it's a waste of time, or that discussing incels' persecution complex takes attention away from other, "more real" forms of misogyny.
     
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  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    My issue is that the same people who have bullied nerds for a decade in school have grown up to continue doing the same bullying but do so under the guise of social justice. Calling someone an incel when they disagree with a woman on Twitter is no different from the insults they hurled at nerds when they were younger. This focus on misogyny in the nerd community while completely ignoring the misogynists everywhere else, or worse, attributing the misogyny elsewhere to nerds (by discussing Trump's son's comment in this thread, hello Trump's son isn't a nerd) just amplifies this idea that only nerds are misogynists. It's the same bullying by the same people.
     
  17. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I don't think that holds true at all. We have multiple threads discussing misogyny and gender issues. "Nerds" are hardly being singled out or some extraordinary scorn. Both in the broader society and on these boards, many sectors have been excoriated: celebrities, politicians, corporate America, religious institutions, higher education. You happily joined in denouncing many of them. Rightly so. But you can't now pull back from the same scrutiny being applied to something you identify with. That said, "Donald Trump's son" doesn't fit very neatly in any of them. That someone picked this one isn't necessarily a signal of malice.

    But more broadly, what are you even talking about? "The same bullying by the same people?" This is a website for adults. To talk about Star Wars movies. I somehow don't think this was the number one site of interest for the captain of the cheerleading squad and the varsity football team. Nor will it ever be. While there are people that abuse every social trend, I think the majority of people here are well meaning and there are plenty of ways to root this discussion in the stated topic.
     
  18. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Nobody talks about Star Wars in the JCC come on Wocky.
     
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  19. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Yes, yes. Most of us just came for to the TFN forums for the stimulating discussion in Zaz threads.
     
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  20. CairnsTony

    CairnsTony Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2014
    Just from my personal experience: the overwhelming majority of convicted sex offenders I've had to deal with over the years have been alpha male types, not shrinking violets, or nerds FWIW. They tend to be, though are by no means exclusively, aggressive in other ways too. Just horrible people all around.

    The most dangerous paedophiles I've had to deal with have generally also been very physically aggressive people too, though I have dealt with more of a mixed bag here.

    A small number of convicted sex offenders, including paedophiles, have been women.

    This may or may not reflect the bigger picture, but this is based on many years personal experience of hundreds of individuals, so make of it what you will.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  21. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Gotta agree with Vivec here. The (non-) issue was so weirdly framed that I had a hard time even understanding it. What do nerds have to do with that guy? And why call him 'Uday'? Is that like 'Karen'? (< rhetorical questions)
     
  22. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    “Uday” was the older of Saddam Hussein’s dementedly sadistic sons.
     
  23. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    (Sorry for dp—edit time ran out.)

    Regarding incels: I agree that going, “Ha ha, incel virgin nerds. You’ll never get laid!” Is not a productive way of dealing with these guys, although the **** some of them say is so vicious and so particularly cruel to women who have suffered from sexual violence that it can be tempting to say something equally wounding back.

    I believe the primary takeaway from the incel issue is that the crappy gender roles society tries to force on everyone hurts and warps men at least as much as women. I think other guys need to reach out to these dudes with compassion, and in a way that reframes their pain as something that has been inflicted upon them by the culture of patriarchy as a whole, and not only by “hot women” or feminists or both. That can be really hard to do—misogynists tend not to be very appealing or sympathetic people. Still, I think this one segment of the misogynistic population that would respond positively to social support, although obviously not to enabling.

    Other takeaways include the fact that Tinder-type dating apps where you make a split-second yes or no decision based on one quick look at a potential partner’s body are not tools that will lead many people to emotional or sexual fulfillment. Actually, I think all dating apps are pretty bad at this. Crazy to think that if you want a connection with a human being, you should go out and talk to real humans instead of interacting primarily with a digital intermediary, but there you have it.

    Finally, someone needs to convince straight dudes that basic hygiene and care for their appearance won’t make them “gay.” Apparently dating app studies have shown that straight women rate 80% of straight guys as “below average” in the appearance department. Since it is statistically impossible for 80% of a given population to be “below average,” it probably means that women were communicating that they would not be interested in spending a couple of hours getting made up to go out, just to be seen on the arm of a dude who threw on yesterday’s jeans and his least-stained polo shirt 5 minutes before he left the house, and called it good. (She looked at your picture for 0.5 seconds before swiping left, you say? How inexplicable. She must be crazy.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  24. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I mean, it seems ridiculous to cite that women rate 80% of guys as below average in appearance, and then blame that on guys. Do you think that extra 30% can really be attributed to guys not trying to look their best on a dating app? Because I'm guessing most guys try to look their best on a dating app. It seems much more likely that women just have unrealistic expectations.


    As far as Vivec's line of discussion: the thread just needs a title change. It has long moved on from it's original topic. Just plain old misogyny would work. You can still discuss misogynistic nerds and incels in a misogyny thread. Or you can go with incels as the topic. There is a bit of overlap between this thread and the feminism thread, but I don't know if it's fair to dump all issues with misogyny in the feminism thread. I'll leave it up to Tracy. It doesn't really matter. Something general/broad.
     
  25. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Did you... just make a sweeping generalization about women in the misogyny thread? This doesn't seem like you. You okay?
     
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