Lit Most "unbelievable" EU stories

But my question still stands, why did he even bother with Death Star II. Why didn't he just devote all resources to these new ships, which seem like they would be way better than a new Death Star.

 

Because he's Palpatine

why have a fleet of planting killer ships when you can have a fleet AND a station.

The more super weapons the better.

 

The DS2 is just a trap to gather the Rebellion in one location.

 

Awfully expensive trap. I'm sure he could have found a different (less expensive) way to bait the rebels.

But what I'm saying is, why would he devote resources and workers to DSII when he has these super ships that are obviously way better? All the workers and resources he used on DSII could have been used to make more Death Star laser star destroyers. These new ships make the Death Star redundant, because they can make way more of them and they are more mobile.

 

Simply having a superlaser attached doesn't place a Xyston on the same level as a Death Star, or even mean that it can serve the purpose as a Death Star. The Death Star wasn't intended to simply tool around the galaxy destroying planets - it's whole purpose was to serve as the literalization of the Tarkin Doctrine, rule by fear of overwhelming force rather than the force itself. The superlaser, sure, but also the size, the invulnerability - all of it intended to simply cow the Empire into submission by virtue of its very existence. That's not something a Xyston, or even a fleet of them, can pull off as effectively.

The fact that the Xyston fleet was under construction at the same time as DSII suggests to me that Palpatine originally had an entirely different purpose in mind for them, one we might not actually know yet. The Aftermath trilogy confirms that Palpatine's vision didn't stop at the borders of the Empire - he had his eyes on the Unknown Regions and even extragalactic space. I wonder if perhaps the original plan for the Xystons - before Endor and Jakku and the Contingency - was as a means to conquer the UR, or maybe even to confront whatever Palpatine had sensed outside the galaxy before his death. There are still aspects of Palpatine's ultimate plan yet to be revealed.

 

Palptine wanted the bait to be irresistible. He doesn't do things by half. This trap had to be too good to pass up.

 

Huh? I'll grant you that exhaust port aside, a Death Star is far more durable than the Xystons. But *the whole point* of Palps broadcasting a message to the galaxy in TROS was . . . to use the fleet of Xystons to cow the galaxy into submission. You're right that the Death Star was supposed to epitomize the Tarkin Doctrine. It symbolizes power and fear. But specifically, it's the power to destroy a planet, and the fear that if you rebel your planet will be destroyed. The Xyston fleet accomplishes the exact same thing, but since the fleet can be multiple places at once it has the added bonus of holding the whole galaxy hostage. It's the difference between having a well armored nuclear capable submarine, and having thousands of slightly less armored nuclear submarines aimed at every nation on earth. Again, other than durability, the Xystons make the Death Star pretty damn irrelevant.

IIRC the Dark Empire sourcebook had some lines about Palpatine's plans to conquer other galaxies and the whole universe. But nothing ever came of that. It doesn't mean that either Palpatine or the IRL Writers have a Master Plan, it's just flavor text.

There is no master plan. From an out of universe standpoint, the ST writers admitted that Palps' involvement in the plot was a late addition. (Likely after the Aftermath books were published, and based on how they changed Poe's backstory I doubt they read those books anyways). From an in universe perspective, Palps was such an idiot that he made his "surrender or die" announcement to the galaxy while the fleet was still vulnerable on Exegol. He would have won if he had just made the broadcast after they left! This is just the equivalent of when badly written comic book or cartoon villains go on and on about how their plan is multi layered and too brilliantly complex for mortals to understand, as shorthand for "the writer didn't think this part through".

 

You say "slightly less armored" as if you're not comparing a Death Star to a Star Destroyer. How super is your superweapon if an MC85 or two have a reasonable chance of knocking it out of the sky? (And yes, an X-Wing blew up a Death Star, but one-in-a-million shot, intentionally-placed vulnerability, etc. The design was to be invulnerable.)

And in terms of being able to hold a galaxy hostage, is being able to be multiple places simultaneously really that much of an advantage overall over a Death Star? The DS does have a hyperdrive. It can go where it needs to go. The difference between "I can blow up Alderaan and Coruscant at the same time" and "I can blow up Alderaan and then Coruscant a few hours later" is minimal.

Palps obviously did use the Xyston fleet as a surrogate DS in TROS, because that's what he had at his disposal. My argument is that the fact it was under construction at the same time as DS II, and the fact that it doesn't fit the Tarkin Doctrine quite as well, hints that the fleet's original purpose may not have been the same as that of the Death Stars.

I am obviously talking in-universe with all this. IRL I don't care if the writers have a plan or not. What fun is that? When it comes to stuff like this I'm more than willing to accept the illusion of a master plan if it's more entertaining than complaining about the lack of one.

Concerning Palps' premature announcement: again from an in-universe perspective, I assumed it had to do with his dire condition and his desire to draw Rey out into the open more than it did his galactic re-conquest plans. His body was decaying, and he decided he couldn't wait for the fleet to be 100% ready (and meanwhile, Rey herself was growing stronger every day). And it worked, as Rey was standing before him in fairly short order. Of course, other parts of the plan didn't work so well, but that part did.

 

@The Positive Fan

That's fair, and if you can come up with an in universe reasoning that smooths over some plot wholes, I welcome it. (Your idea that Palps was on a time limit in TROS is the only explanation I've heard other than "he's crazy", so I'll take that). In fact I'd argue that the writers of this comic tried to do something similar (organically tie in the events of TROS to Palpatine's other plans), only it was poorly executed so it made even more plot holes. I just take issue with the statement that "Palpatine's ultimate plan is yet to be revealed". If you have a fan theory on what his ultimate plan was I'd love to hear it, but if you're waiting for a book or comic that will explain it and justify all plot holes, I think you'll be waiting a very, very long time.

Back to the Xyston Fleet. Yes capital ships (even ones as large as the Xystons) are more vulnerable than a Death Star. But I think you're under estimating how much of a game changer they could be. It's not just "I can blow up Alderaan and Coruscant at the same time instead of waiting a few hours". It's "I can blow up *thousands* of planets at the same time". If a couple of Mon Cal cruisers do take out a ship, it doesn't matter because Palps can push a single button and wipe out that sector of space in an instant. This might be a weird analogy, but pretend Palpatine was a psychotic Mayor trying to take over a small town. The Death Star is a tank: the mayor threatens that if you don't obey he'll drive over to your house and blow it up. The Xyston fleet is a bunch of bombs: The mayor has wired every house in town to explode on command. Sure, theoretically a couple people might be able to disarm the bombs, but would they be willing to risk the whole town blowing up?

And again I don't see how the Xystons don't fit with the Tarkin Doctrine when Palps in TROS literally used them in an attempt to cow the galaxy into submission. IMO the idea that he originally planned to use them to conquer the Unknown Regions is dubious. Most superweapons are used to threaten force, and they fill that role much better. And the beaten and battered fleeing Imperial Fleet was able to take on the Unknown Regions all by themselves.

 

I don't think it's that confusing

Palpatine end point is to basically just have a seat of Power on Exegol creating Dark Side monstrosities Sith Cultutist and other weird thing and have Star Destroyers with Superlaserse on them....I'm not sure why people are accusing it of plot holes it honestly seems quite clear cut.

It's the mentality that has kept Star Wars alive for years

(Not saying it's a bad thing but it's just a interesting POV)

 

@Jid123Sheeve Maybe not plot holes so much as "unbelievable" things. (Hence the title of this thread). I can only speak for myself, but some things that have been mentioned so far are:

• The idea that Vader wouldn't warn Luke about the threats on Exegol. (Either with his dying breath or as a Force Ghost).
  
• That the Xystons were already in development at this point.
• That the Emperor would bother with DSII if he already had some superior super weapons already in the works.
  
• Some people answered the above bullet point with the idea that the Emperor needed to lure the Rebels into a trap with a credible threat. But this in turn becomes the sticking point that there could have been far less resource intensive traps that would've worked just as well.

The best answer I've found is that the Xyston fleet needed more time to be ready, but even still the whole thing raises some eybebrows.
Also in general I'm willing to stretch a little bit to come up with reasonable explanations for these sorts of things. I get that mentality. But personally there's a limit, there's a point where if the work isn't meeting me half way I just give up on In Universe explanations.

 

@JediBatman

Maybe he did as a Force Ghost and I don't think Vader's priotires while dying were about Exegol at the moment.

I can buy that since clearly they were still very early in development and weren't even ready for launch and wouldn't be until Episode 9. Heck in the image we see clearly that they weren't even halfway ready let alone completely ready

From my perspective at least...He's Palpatine, why have one fleet when one could have a whole bunch of Superweapons and crazy things plus again the Xystons were still early in development

I mean everyone has there limit sure but I think some people are just being overly critical....and I think it's some Anti-TROS bias showing to be honest....Not from you just from people in general.

However i feel like this tweet thread is a good one