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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Mr. Lucas, you were so close to making me a saga fan.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Boba16, Jul 22, 2006.

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  1. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Reading this weekend from Comic-con about the laserdisk quality of the O-OT release to DVD, Lucas really had a chance of cementing me as a 1-6 saga fan for life, but now he has actually done the opposite, and I will explain.

    From 1999-2005, I really enjoyed the PT, the hype, the trailers, the spoilers, and then the movies. Sure they didn't live up to the be all of the OT, but just cause they were never as great as the OT movies (IMO), didn't mean I never thought they wouldn't be fine additions to the saga. To me, I always looked at it as 6 SW movies are better than 3!

    But when Lucas just put out the SE in 2004, I was never an advocate of the '97 changes, and the Hayden change really turned me off from the SE. To me there was no reason to try little gimmicks to tie the movies together, he never did that with ANH back in 1980, when Vader says he is Lukes father and totally contradicts everything Alec Guiness said in ANH. If Lucas changed ANH back in the 1983 to fit the OT, I probably would have been annoyed then.

    So I have always enjoyed the PT, but the changing of the OT always bothered me, and I felt it was the PT's fault, cause Lucas felt the SE would be the only ones to truly match up with the PT. But for me, the opposite was happening, I looked at the saga PT + O-OT, and I was fine with it.

    So in May when the O-OT announcement came and at first it seemed like great quality, I was ready to watch the OT movies the way I saw them from 77-83, and then watch the PT movies the way I saw them from 99-05, and I was very contempt with the saga, and how it turned out. To watch 6 SW movies in top notch DVD quality, I was very happy. The night of May 4th, when I thought these were anamorphic, Lucas had me.

    Then this week it is finally confirmed that the O-OT DVD's are laserdisk quality from AICN at Comic Con, and now I have started to dislike the PT movies, not for the movies themselves, but for what they have done to the O-OT, they have killed it, and now I went from possibly enjoying all 6 as the saga on Sept 12th, to very letdown and annoyed that Lucas had to change the OT movies and not atleast recognize the O-OT for fans who have loved it since '77.

    It is sad to say, that by Lucas constantly tinkering and tinkering to make the OT fit the PT, he had the opposite effect on this fan, I don't see it as the saga anymore, cause I am forced to watch SE as the only good quality DVD's out on the market, and I have to say to Mr. Lucas, you had me with great quality O-OT DVD's, you were so close, but you had to thumb your nose at fans like me, and now you have lost one fan who loves the O-OT, and also the PT too, now the PT to me has spoiled the O-OT.

    Everytime I think of watching the PT, I think of before 1997 now, and how I enjoyed the saga of 4-6, before the changes, before the PT, and if you would have just left the OT movies alone, or just recognized both versions for a split fanbase now, I wouldn't feel the way I do today. If you wouldn't have changed the OT, and released saga boxsets down the road of 1-6 including the O-OT, I would have bought them in a split second like I did in the 90s with all the VHS trilogy boxsets. I was very accepting of the PT as part of the saga, as long as I was able to watch the O-OT as the last 3 episodes of that saga, but that is not going to happen in the future, as I presume all saga boxsets will be with the SE of the OT, and now you have lost me on all those purchases, unless you do the O-OT right, but that is only 3 movies, not 6. You were so close George. But this one will leave a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.
     
  2. Darth_Morhs

    Darth_Morhs Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 11, 2005
    6. No "PT is better than OT" or "OT is better than the PT" threads. No gusher/basher threads in the forum allowed.

    That's one of this forums rules.
     
  3. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    I dont think this is a "OT better than PT" or "Basher/gusher" thread but merely a valid discussion of the repercussions on the fandom caused by the desire to link two different trilogies and the repression of the original versions.

    And i agree. I consider myself a moderate--i (mostly) enjoy the SE, i like the PT. But within the last 9 months i have massively drifted away from both of them, and a big part of it has to do with the things you mention Boba. I don't think the PT and OT can ever be linked without instituting massive changes in the OT--and i mean massive. CG'd Yoda with new dialog, new scenes on Coruscant, more scenes with Vader and the Emperor, updated ROTJ battles, re-instating the extended Obi Wan Dagobah scene if it exists--you might as well just remake the OT. And I think until the OT is changed on this much of a scale it will always be PT/OT and not "Star Wars in six episodes" or "Star Wars in Six Parts" or "Star Wars the Saga" or however you want to describe it. And the catch is, if something as extreme and absurd as the changes i just mentioned are actually enacted, the proper release of the OOT is even more paramount simply because the OOT represents a completely different and alternate film series.

    More and more i am beginning to see that until someone remakes the series from the beginning as a six episode opera, the films will always be OOT, with the PT as a sort of footnote or bonus feature.
     
  4. SweiitConcorkill

    SweiitConcorkill Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2004
    No, it is clearly an "OT is better than the PT" thread since it tactically pretends to have actually liked the PT. Please, no one loves the OT and digs the PT but because Lucas won't release the perfect version of the "originals" they can't help but dislike the PT.

    Come on.

    Not to mention that no matter how many times Lucas releases the O-OT, in whatever condition, someone will say he is still not doing it right.

    People who constantly trash Lucas and find new and exciting reasons to hate him don't deserve more.
     
  5. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    Now you are turning it into that type of discussion. PT lovers needn't be so defensive on anyone critical.
     
  6. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Did I say once in my post that the PT sucked? I said I enjoyed all 6 movies, but I truly enjoy watching the O-OT + PT. Just because I love the OT more than the PT, doesn't mean I think the PT is crap! Just cause I love the OT more than the Matrix Trilogy, does that mean that I think the Matrix trilogy is crap?

    This has nothing to do with which trilogy is better, that has zero to do with my post. My whole point is that the PT has changed the movies I watched for 20 years. And if you want to call me an oldtimer who can't get over the O-OT, so be it, thats fine with me. If you want to call me an oldtimer who can't accept the SE, thats fine too.

    I am just saying it really burns me up that the OT was changed, and that is squarely because of the PT. Lucas feels the effects needed to be updated to match the newer PT movies, he feels Hayden at the end of ROTJ ties the saga together, that is where he loses me.

    If you think I am a lying and trying to stir it up, I can only speak on how I feel at this time. And as Lucas continues to the try to tie the saga's together, he pushes this fan farther and farther away.

    I'll say it again: PT + O-OT = The saga I would love to watch, the PT + SE = just doesn't work for me. Sorry but thats the way I feel.
     
  7. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    See, the PT as a backstory really works for me, and again, just cause I don't love the PT as much as the OT, doesn't mean I hate them. I think ROTJ is inferior to ANH & ESB, but I still enjoy the movie, and cause Lucas never changed ANH back in 1980 to coincide with the shifting story that was about to be changed with ESB and then ROTJ, I could always live with ANH as that standalone movie/or part of the OT.

    If Lucas put out a saga boxset next year with all new documentaries of all 6 movies that included the PT movies, and the O-OT/SE movies, I would buy it in a second. If he puts out a saga boxset next year with the just the PT & OT-SE, I won't buy them at all, and that is what I mean that he had me as a saga fan with this release.
     
  8. Winston_Sith

    Winston_Sith Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Come on...

    Idiana: And who will write and direct this New, Perfected, Star Wars Saga?
    Maj. Eaton: We have top men working on it now.
    Indiana: Who(m)?
    Maj. Eaton: Top... men.

    ROFL.
     
  9. darthzeppo

    darthzeppo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2005
    It?s not fair!!!!:_|:_|:_|

    I am sooooooooooooo looking forward to Clerks2.
    [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]

     
  10. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Mr. Lucas, you were so close to making me a saga fan.

    Don't worry Mr. Lucas, you've made me into a STAR WARS SAGA fan. I've been into STAR WARS since before the first time I saw the first STAR WARS movie you released in theaters in 1977 and I have an ever growing STAR WARS collection and for a number of years I have spent and continue to spend thousands of dollars on STAR WARS each year. You'll be fine. :cool:
     
  11. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Zombie-- I think you're going a wee bit too far saying the PT amounts to a "footnote," "extra" or "bonus feature," whatever you said. It underestimates their quality, but anyway. I'll say that short of remaking the saga, I support every one of the changes you speculated upon for future releases of the OT. Basically my limit is replacing Shaw in the unmasking scene, but other than that it's the sky.

    I've been watching a lot of Fritz Lang movies recently, and one of the things that's always painful for me is to see how quality films of his wound up butchered by studio executives during his time in America. Critics usually recognize Fury as a classic, but frankly there's a lot wrong with the pacing of the film which speaks of cutting the movie down to fit certain time restraints, resulting in the loss of a lot of Lang's personal, idiosynchratic editing style. It's even more painful to watch a masterpiece like Metropolis and know that half an hour or more is missing thanks to American and European editors and that we'll probably never be able to reclaim that footage. Hell, I've avoided movies like Orson Welles' Citizen Kane or any of Eric von Stroheim's films simply because I don't want to torture myself watching movies that have been taken away from their directors in the editing room and mangled into something only a studio would aprove of.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is this-- I'll take a director altering his own films over a studio doing so any day. Should Lucas do full restoration of the O-OT? Perhaps, but doing so might lend greater acceptance to it than he's willing to allow. He wants his versions to be the ones perserves, respected and studied. I'm assuming he doesn't mind people enjoying the O-OT on individual levels, but he doesn't want it competing with his edits on the academic level. In his mind, the PT and SE-OT constitutes as Star Wars, with the O-OT as extras and bonus features and not the other way around.
     
  12. DroidGeneral

    DroidGeneral Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Quit your crying. Buy the O-OT in September.
     
  13. vote_for_palpatine

    vote_for_palpatine Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Quit your baiting, idiot.

    Oops, I forgot to say "Roger Roger".
     
  14. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    See, that was my point of the thread, as everyone for some reasons take it as 'whining' or 'PT vs OT' thread, it has to do with the way Lucas sees the saga now, and for you JediFPrefect, it works for you, you welcome more changes. For me, as Lucas tinkers and puts out crappy O-OT on DVD, he pushes me farther away from his vision and alienates me in having a true disdain for the PT movies, and I consider both us diehard SW fans, one that is going one way, and one that is going another.

    That is all my point was guys for anyone who keeps making baiting remarks. JediPrefect has a right to his opinion and how he loves what Lucas has done, and I respect that, but in the same breath there are just as many fans like me who feel Lucas is opening the door and saying bye bye to us too.
     
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    He is releasing the O-OT just for people like you who prefer the O-OT over the SE editions. So it's only the best it's -ever- looked on home video. That's no reason to treat it like it's dead. At least not to me. I think it's great that we will finally have the O-OT on DVD, and I for one will be enjoying the hell out of this september release.
     
  16. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Sorry for your lose, Boba, but what if Lucas didn't just copy and paste Christensen over Shaw to tie the OT to the PT? What if Lucas was actually saying something profound? What if the meaning of what he is saying was always there in the image of Shaw, but was just harder to see?
     
  17. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Perfectly understandable. Here's the point, though-- Lucas probably fears that the more he does to actively ressurect the O-OT, the more credibility it'll gain in cinematic circles. He wants the PT and SE-OT to be the versions of Star Wars film historians talk about, the versions given academic treatments and discussed in film courses. Just like Proust didn't want "In Search of Lost Time" to be called "Remembrance of Things Past," Lucas wants his legacy preserved the way that he wants it, and not just the way it may or may not be more popular.

    I don't know. Personally, I think he doesn't have much to be afraid of. After all, most critics respect a filmmaker's right to a final edit, and speak out in favor of director's cuts in opposition to studio manhandling. It would be very hypocritical for anyone to embrace, say, Ridley Scott's pessmistic, downbeat version of Blade Runner, Peter Jackson's monumental-length expanded editions of the LOTR trilogy or Terry Gilliam's triumphant Brazil over its "Love Conquers All" version while preferring the O-OT to the SE-OT. In that respect, I believe Lucas' versions of the films will be respected in the future by critics and movie watchers alike, and that the O-OT ultimately really will only appeal to those who watch it in the interest of nostalgia. Therefore, I believe it's silly for him not to perform a full restoration to the O-OT, but I can certainly understand his apprehension to do so, since he likely fears people will try to move for those to be seen as the "real" Star Wars.

    Why do I say that? Because that's what I fear, too.
     
  18. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    I am glad you are respectively disagreeing with me, and your points are well made.

    I do agree what is there to be afraid of releasing both versions, LOTR has done it, Bladerunner is getting the super-duper treatment of every version in September, hell, even Superman II is getting the Richard Donner cut in the boxset with the Superman Returns DVD at the end of the year, that should be interesting to atleast see.

    It all comes down to this, Lucas has now split OT fans: SE & O-OT, nobody who posts which version he or she likes on this website is wrong, you cant change how you feel towards something.

    For me, I watched the O-OT for my whole life since 1977, and I am sorry, but I love those versions more, plain & simple. I don't like Hayden in ROTJ, I don't like the JediRocks song in ROTJ, I don't like Han not shooting first, etc. When Lucas made essentially 2 versions of each OT movie, it was inevitable that fans were would clamor to one of them over the other, it is just natural. I like the LOTR theatrical versions, my best friend likes the extended editions, two opinions, two versions of the same film. Peter Jackson had to know that each fan would prefer one over the other.

    I am just speaking as one side of a fanbase that loves SW just as much as the other, not bashers, not gushers, those people are set in their ways. There are so many fans who dont post here who really enjoyed the PT, but grew up with the OT and still love the O-OT.

    And as I said before, I have watched the saga 1-6 many of times, and even though I like the OT more, it doesn't stop me from enjoying the PT. But now I am starting to resent the PT, because it has killed the O-OT, for purposes of tying the saga better. And the ironic thing is for this fan, it did the opposite.
     
  19. Jedi-Queen

    Jedi-Queen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005
    "People who constantly trash Lucas and find new and exciting reasons to hate him don't deserve more."

    Agreed!
    Lucas is damned if he does and damned if he does not.
    No matter what he does he is criticized by some and praised by others.
    Some now complain the OT should be redone b/c of the PT and some complain
    that the OT should not be changed, period.
    I can see why he made these movies the way he wanted to b/c trying to cater
    to everyone would be futile.
     
  20. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    But the thing is, JediFordPrefect, the SE and PT will never be the films historians talk about, except in relation to the original versions. Whether someone likes it or not, Star Wars, the 1977 original, is the one that won all the awards and changed the face of cinema more than any other film ever made. Star Wars, the 1977 original, is the one that permeated the cultural landscape, broke all those records and made those hundreds of millions of dollars, is the one that was inaugurated into the Library of Congress film registry--whether or not the SE or PT is bad or good, you can't change what has already happened, and even if the PT and SE were publicly considered superior, historians would still be talking about and appreciated the originals.
     
  21. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Zombie-- All due respect (and I genuinely mean that) but I believe you're underestimating the value of the saga as a whole once again, but that's certainly your way of doing things. Critics like Anne Lancashire already are evaluating the PT on its own merits and appreciating it just as much as the original trilogy. Granted, I believe from what I've read that Lancashire herself isn't that much of a fan of the SE revisions--a fair amount of critics find the editions interchangable-- but to her and others the PT and the OT exist as a whole, each film and each trilogy more than just the sum of its parts.

    Now, I should have been a bit more specific. Film historians are very different from film commentators-- it's the difference, say, somebody who talks about how important a film like Gone With the Wind was for its day and somebody who actually talks about its story, direction, characters and acting, just off the top of my head. Film historians obviously aren't going to see the SE's or the PT as important as the OT, partially because they're all a part of a cycle of films which begun in 1977-- as sequels and prequels they're all pretty much the same thing and have been since the 80's. Furthermore, film historians in 1999, 2002 and 2005 were much more likely to be keeping their eyes open for the new films of their years, movies like The Matrix, Fight Club and Brokeback Mountain, to name a few. The PT was a big deal, but still was a continuation of something from the 70's instead of something completely organic and original to its time period.

    Critics and commentators already take the idea of Star Wars as a six-film narrative seriously, instead of just a watershed moment in filmmaking. Because of this continuity, and other reasons, I believe it won't be long until film historians acknowledge these ideas as well.
     
  22. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    JediFPrefect, I agree with Zombie, and when he talks about Star Wars from 1977, he is even putting ESB & ROTJ as 'not talked about' movies either if you know what I mean.

    Star Wars '77 is the only SW movie that appeals to the masses, solely because it is a standalone movie that has a true ending, or had a true ending back in 1977. That is not a diss on any of the other 5 SW films, this is just about that The Original Star Wars is movie that changed movies, and it will always have that place in history. To me only few movies hold that place in movie history: Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Citizen Kane, Jaws, The Godfather. It isn't about what you think is the best SW movie, or what any other SW fan thinks, it is just that the Original Star Wars from 1977 had a huge effect on movies, and that is why it is the only one seen constantly on AFI lists.

    Most fans & critics don't talk about it as a 6 part saga, that is just SW fans like you and I who are doing it. I was talking with a friend of mine the other day about movies we loved as kids and he said something interesting, "If you look at SW now, I think the only two movies I would ever watch again would be Star Wars & Empire Strikes Back. I saw ROTJ a couple of weeks ago, and man it is worse than I thought it was." It isn't even about the OT or the PT, or the saga, it is about how will the individual movies be judged over time, not by just SW fans.

    Rocky series is a perfect example. Growing up I could watch any Rocky movie, they were all fun to watch just like SW movies. But as time wore on, a movie has to pass the test of time. Now I look at the Rocky series as just a Classic Original Movie that is still great today, and a bunch of sequels that are good to average that are fun to watch once and while when they are on TV. Nobody talks about the Rocky series without chuckling and making fun of Rocky IV or V, but in the same breath they will say Rocky I is one of the greatest movies of all-time.

    Passing the test of time, only great movies can do that. Now it is up to each and every one of us to decide that, but there is a reason that Gone with the Wind, The Wizard of OZ, Rocky and Star Wars '77 are still talked about today, and nobody brings up Rocky IV that much. Or dare I say nobody brings up ROTJ & The PT, other than diehards like us.
     
  23. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    I don't doubt that, in time, the PT and SE will be lumped with the original and talked about as "the Star Wars series," but I think that there will be a clear distinction between "the Star Wars series" and "Star Wars."

    Its very much the same way with Star Trek. There are now many sequel series of Star Trek--probably close to the same number of Star Wars films, six. When film historians and commentators talk about Star Trek, they often talk about the generic series, and accept that the half-dozen shows collectively make up the series, and although many of the latter sequel series have been harshly criticized by both reviewers and fans, there are certainly things in them that are enjoyable. But there is still a very clear divide between the original 1967 series that was revolutionary and historic, and the entertaining and interesting but much less notable sequels which now have combined into one big uber-series. But the original will always be the one discussed an analysed, the one that deserves a place in a film history textbook--that is not to say that the sequel series were no good, or unimportant, but in contrast to the original they are relatively unremarkable except in their relation to that first series.

    That is the way Star Wars is as well. Certainly the sequels are all deserving of mention and analysis--and certainly they do indeed recieve these things--but they are all minor in comparison to the original.

    Also--Citizen Kane was never edited against the artists wishes. In fact, Orson Wells became really the very first auteur with that film since he was guaranteed strict and complete control over it. Anyway though.

    EDIT

    Another great example. Wizard of Oz is probably the closest possible comparison that can be made to Star Wars, both in terms of style, content, popularity and importance. It is a magical and timeless tale that has certainly stood the test of time, being as much a popular childrens film today as it was in 1939. That is quite a feat. Star Wars is the same way.

    But, there is more to Wizard of Oz than just Wizard of Oz. There was a 1985 sequel. There was a 1987 animated series. There were spin-off books.
    In 1985, Walter Murch directed Return to Oz. It was trashed by critics at the time, but since it has become a cult hit, and in the last few years has recieved extensive attention--some have even said that it might be one of the most fascinating films ever made. It is a dark, fascinating, original, imaginative and impressive expansion on the original film, one that adds new layers and new themes to the relatively light and straight forward original. Recently it has been analyzed for all of its sophisticated subtext by film scholars who are now taking a second look at it. The animated series was also made up of four interralted tales and fit into the chronology of the two movies--thus we have, identical to Star Wars, a six part saga spun off of the brilliant original film.

    But do most think of "Wizard of Oz, the series" or "Wizard of Oz, the movie"? The original is the only one that matters, regardless of anything produced after and regardless of the genius or shoddiness of said sequel material.
     
  24. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2003
    I both agree and disagree with pretty much everything the two of you are saying-- confusing, isn't it? First of all, Zombie, I'm not sure where "Citizen Kane" was brought into the discussion, but your statement that he was arguably the first auteur is shaky on a few grounds. Filmmakers in the silent era like Fritz Lang and F.W. Murnau in Europe and D.W. Griffith and Charlie Chaplin in the United States effectively had complete control over the content of their films either because they owned the production houses themselves or because they worked under production houses adventerous, daring and well-financed enough to stand behind their visions. As sound raised cost levels, however, and community leaders expressed dismay over the sometimes racy content of films, especially those made in Hollywood, creative freedom did fall under hard times and scrutiny. The degree of creative control filmmakers in America had in the 1930's and 40's depended mostly upon the amount of money their movies brought in and how skillfully they could disguise any and all of the more questionable material they had. John Ford got to do pretty much whatever he wanted because nobody had any problems with his films and they brought in big bucks. Orson Welles had carte blanche on "Citizen Kane," and it's pretty much the only production he ever had complete creative or financial control of. Having made a passionate enemy in William Randolph Hearst, upon whom Charles Foster Kane was ever so secretly based upon, "Kane" was none too popular with audiences who didn't care to see experimental cinema and sharply divided critics, mostly based upon who did and didn't get their paychecks from Hearst. After that RKO lost their faith in him, and subsequently changed the ending of and cut an hour from his next project, "The Magnificent Ambersons" (That hour of footage, by the way, is now almost unanimously declared as irretrevably lost) as well as terminated Welles' previously signed three-picture contract. From that point on, Welles was at best a lost cause in Hollywood and abroad, the man who broke the bank at RKO and a pariah of a filmmaker whose work in America was routinely butchered and re-edited without his consent and whose work in Europe was widely ignored and unseen. You're correct, however, that Welles' film "Citizen Kane," along with John Huston's "The Maltese Falcon" and the films of Jean Renoir, was one of the crucial motivating factors of Truffaut's introduction of the auteur theory in 1954 under the tutelege of Andre Bazin. Sadly, virtually no producers agreed with them enough to finance Welles.

    Second of all, your example of "The Wizard of Oz," Zombie, isn't as perfect as it could be-- L. Frank Baum wrote a number of "Oz" books before the 1939 color and black and white film adaptation by Victor Flemming, which happened to be the fifth filmed version of the original novel (Just as "The Maltese Falcon," directed by John Huston in 1941 was not the first filmed version of the Dashiel Hammet book). Second of all, the 1985 sequel directed by Walter Murch was certainly not helmed by Victor Flemming, so it wasn't a continuation of the same creative team. Lucas continuing "Star Wars" after ANH (True, he didn't "direct" ESB or ROTJ but only in the same way that, for example, Michale Mann didn't "create" the TV series "Miami Vice", so he can effectively be considered their defacto auteur) is in a somewhat different category. Just saying.

    Now I do agree that in terms of film history ANH is always going to be seen and viewed differently than the rest of the series as a whole. ANH was the definitive movie of 1977 (Sorry, "Annie Hall"). ESB was great, but it wasn't the definitive movie of 1980 ("Raging Bull"). ROTJ was spectacular, but it wasn't the definitive movie of 1983 ("Tootsie" or "Terms of Endearment," probably-- admitedly, not the best year for movies). TPM was damn good, but 1999 was the year of "The Matrix," "Fight Club" and "Eyes Wide Shut," respectively (Sorry, but not "American Beauty"). AOTC was fun as all hell, but 2002 belong
     
  25. Jedi-Queen

    Jedi-Queen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005
    "Anyway. In time, I believe, that clear distinction between "The Star Wars Saga" and "Star Wars" will slowly and gently fade away. Granted, I'm talking way down the line, but we'll get there eventually."

    Are you saying a majority feel this way b/c I don't and I haven't talked to
    anyone else who does either.
    I was there in '77 when ANH opened and yes for the next few years the term SW just
    referred to that movie. Later on and now SW for me makes me think of not only ANH,
    but the whole saga and diff parts in each movie that jump out at me.
    SW for me has become the whole story from start to finish, not just one movie.
    This saga has more meaning for me, it's not just some series of sequels.
    It's more like I went to the movies in '77 and saw this great story and have
    been sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the rest of the story to be told.
     
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