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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Mr. Lucas, you were so close to making me a saga fan.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Boba16, Jul 22, 2006.

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  1. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
  2. jbird69

    jbird69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2000
    George Lucas has said REPEATEDLY that the 1977, 1980, and 1983 versions of the OT were incomplete films because the technology didn't exist at the time to make them 100% the way he wanted. He changed them AT FIRST to complete his vision. For the DVD release he made a couple of small changes, but so what? It's HIS vision, HE can do what HE WANTS! I enjoy every minute of it, and if there's a 6 disc superset with a couple of other minor changes, I'll buy it. If you don't like it, just don't buy it!
     
  3. Malikail

    Malikail Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2004
    i am always amazed by how cavalierly people state "it's his vision he can do what he wants".

    actually he's always free to release a second version of the same film, directors cuts are common.

    he is not free to tell us this is the official version or tell us 'this is what it should have been' 30 years later except in the sense of releasing a second and seperate version of the original film.

    this not only true of lucas but it is true of all films, for the record the directors cuts of Bladerunner and Terminator 2 are far superior to the theatrical releases.

    what lucas has attempted to do is silly at best and disgusting at worst, he has attempted to replace the original theatrical release in the public mind with his new versions.

    frankly i've had enough of revisionist history from him and others, the films don't belong to him anymore, he released them into the theater and into the public concious.

    you cannot put something on display and still claim to own it in the sense of being able to reedit it completely.

    and btw, i've spent my last nickle on any version of any star wars film unless he releases episodes 7, 8 & 9, so i get to save some coin.

    however my oppinion and right to complain about what he has done with the movies is very much intact and is not invalidated at all, we are right to complain, it's only natural.

     
  4. TheInnkeeper

    TheInnkeeper Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2004
    I'm pretty sure that I don't have enough posts to carry any sort of credibility on these forums in the slightest, but this is ridiculous. Lucas just did those who hate the changes the ultimate courtesy and released what you wanted to keep out on DVD. He didn't want to before because it's not his designated definitive version, but finally gave in due to incessant whining. Well there you go! There's your Star Wars. There is absolutely no reason anyone should sit on their butts and whine that Star Wars isn't what they want it to be, or especially that it isn't what it used to be. Do you define what Star Wars is? Nope, that's up to George Lucas exclusively, and if you'd like to pick and choose what of his artwork you do and do not enjoy, that's fine and dandy, just don't put down those who would rather enjoy the whole shebang (see above comment). ESPECIALLY after he gave in to what you all wanted and gave you the original versions.

    This is the kind of attitude that I hate. Some people reach a point in their fandom in which they will hate whatever comes next. I have a notion that you would be complaining that George didn'trelease the original theatrical versions if he had decided not to.

    Not everything in the films is perfect. I have my complaints too. But a few potholes here and there doesn't make the road unnavigable. And when a fan can become a nonfan by a few mistakes without letting the many successes overwhelm the few mistakes, I would seriously question the outlook of that fan.
     
  5. Malikail

    Malikail Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2004


    actually i don't have a problem with what he releases, but i do to a degree agree, i do "hate whatever comes next".

    i hate whatever comes out of his mouth next, lucas should stop doing interviews. I could have accepted much easier his releasing of only the SE and 2004 versions as long as he kept his pie hole shut about his "orginal vision" and "official version" bull ****.

    what i find truly disgusting are those who are his appologists and lap dogs who will listen to his every word as though it is all that matters. Since the man has such trouble with honestly and keeping his facts straight he's a terrible source to rely on.
     
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    I have yet to catch Lucas in a bold faced lie. There is a difference between changing one's mind and lying.

    If people don't like his interviews, why would they even read them?

    I read them because I am interested in Lucas' opinion about Star Wars, because it's his creation.
     
  7. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
     
  8. CuppaJoe

    CuppaJoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Some people don't want to let go of Star Wars no matter how it irritates them and how often they talk about what they hate and complain. If it interests them, so be it.

    Fans come in many shapes and sizes...
     
  9. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Fans come in many shapes and sizes...



    And thats really it in a nutshell. You can love what he does or hate what he does all the live long day and its not gonna change a frackin thing that he does. SW will always be a all time cinema phenomenon no matter what he does.
     
  10. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    frankly i've had enough of revisionist history from him and others, the films don't belong to him anymore, he released them into the theater and into the public concious.

    You would be amazed at how large a proportion of us have had enough of people like you. Had it with the complaining, griping, and endless whining with delusions of your own importance.

    Let me guess, YOU own Star Wars now? Tell that to Lucas's security guard.

    and btw, i've spent my last nickle on any version of any star wars film unless he releases episodes 7, 8 & 9, so i get to save some coin.

    Lucas is crying all the way to the bank.

    Not that I care to buy the same movie again, but quite frankly I WILL trust him with SW more than anyone I have met here. It takes more to be a movie conservationist than just a big mouth.
     
  11. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2001
    Just like Spielberg release E.T. with the SE and Theatrical release on one box set on DVD In 2002? No wait, Spielberg gave both versions anamorphic, high quality transfers to please both fanbases. It really isn't that hard to do.

    But Spielberg has STILL NOT released the original theatrical version of Close Encounters of the Third Kind on DVD.
     
  12. Minela

    Minela Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    I hope they can somehow in the future redo the Vader/Luke scene when he takes of the mask and put a CG Hayden head all burned up and disfigured, and Hayden talking "...tell your sister...you were right..." Of course only if it looks 100% believable. [face_love]

    Hahaha, PT lover. Don't shoot me. [face_praying]
     
  13. Knight-8311

    Knight-8311 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2006
    I love star wars but to me the original theatricals that i am now collecting will always be my favorites. will i watch the PT and the special editions? of course but if i ever want to hear jeremy bullochs voice or see han shoot first i will have th unaltered versions. i may not like the PT as much but i feel they did the best they could to live up to "No, I am your father." it could be argued either way but star wars was, is and will be the greatest saga ever told.
     
  14. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    ESB 1980 - Luke doesn't scream when jumping on Cloud City
    Vision? I call it 'tampering'


    With YOUR movie right?
    Save us your santimony. When you getr off your keyboard and make a billion dollar successful movie franchise, THEN you can reserve your right to be dictated to by an amatuer and griper on an obscure message board with no other movie experience than pressing "play" on their DVD player. Until then, Lucas gets his own way and is entitled to it. Get over yourself.
     
  15. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
     
  16. Sanctuary_Moon

    Sanctuary_Moon Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2004
    Yes, he is entitled to it. What he isn't entitled to do is claim to have some over-arching "vision" when it is obvious that he is making it up as he goes, as evidenced by Boba16's example of the ESB scream.
     
  17. TheInnkeeper

    TheInnkeeper Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Ultimately, does it matter if he screams or not? The fact that it changed with every release doesn't make it his vision, just the same as it doesn't make it tampering. It's just a change. A very minor change that really doesn't matter. One could freak out and say "He's changed it again! You must stop tampering! Heaven almighty!" just as easily as one could claim "This change is part of Lucas' ultimate plan and is always according to his divine image." In the end, both sides are making it out to be more than it is. It's a change. It's trying something new. At least you can now watch the version you happen to like best. Because of that, there is now officially nothing to complain about.
     
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    When Lucas looks at his movie and says: Put a scream in there, then it's his vision.

    When Lucas looks at his movie and says: Take the screm out, I like it better without.

    That's his vision too.

    People have to realize that anyone's vision is going to evolve as time goes on.
     
  19. Boba16

    Boba16 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2006
    2004 SE: Anamorphic Video

    2006 O-OT: Non-Anamorphic Video

    Trust me, there is a huge difference in quality in these movies, so officially there is something to complain about: The O-OT got a sub-standard DVD release not even as good quality as Gigli. Pretty sad....
     
  20. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Sinister,
    Fair points all around, and yet we are left with the fact LFL choose to release a product that was not up to industry standards. Actually, upon viewing its not that far off the mark, IMO, but LFL did admit to releasing this in a format that is inferior to industry standards for DVD before anyone had a chance to see it, so it's understandable people would believe negative reviews about it without having a chance to view it.

    I understand and appreciate the reasons for defending GL's artist rights and merits, but there is another element at work here. GL is looking at SW strictly as a work of art, but SW is a commercial product. It was produced and marketed to sell to the general public. Millions and millions was spent to this effect, and it has been recieved as thus. Now, the two elements (art and commerce) do not have to be in competition, it can be treated as a work of art and a commercial product equally, the former satisfying the artists desire and the later satisfying the consumers desires. But GL treats the two in conflict, and this has produced dissatisfaction in the consumer community that is the most interested in the product. In fact, this conflict of art vs. commerce carries forward a lot of cross-purposes debating that happens here. Often when people debate these issues, they debate at cross purposes because one side will debate the artist and the other is debating the commercial elements. Both are undeniable true, so they cannot reconcile each other. For example, GL is the artist behind SW and has creative control: fact. The OE is release commercially and was a huge success world wide prior to any mention or discussion of the SE: fact. People try to prove one against the other, but you can't. They are both true.

    TheInnkeeper,
    You are correct, some people will complain, no matter. I remember the first day they announced the O-OT was coming out, prior to any of the specs being announced. People who were huge fans of the O-OT were still complaining. What kind of sense does that make? However, the number of people who were complaining was a much smaller margain than those who expressed displeasure at the lack of anamphoric on the O-OT when that was announced. When this announcement first came out, most every PT and SE fan actually united against GL's decision. It is the most united I've seen the fanbase in a long time. Now, overtime, old tensions arose and this unity disolved, but the point remains is that the bigger point these last few months is simply been genuine customer dissatisfaction.

    Boskone,
    As it may surprise, I agree with your frustration about complaining to a certain extend. As I said above, based on the initial O-OT DVD announcement, it did prove complaining seems prevasive, no matter what. This kind of complaining is indeed frustrating and futile. That being said, some complaints are legimate, and, if presented properly, not unappropriate. True, it can be habit forming if one's not careful, but in any event, I doubt you are going to have any impact of a positive or productive nature by shouting down the people you disagree with. In fact, it really just looks like you are doing the same thing you accuse them of, more complaining. I seem to remember a Boskone_Kenobi recommending to me a softer approach based around reasoning things out with people instead of reacting. Are you game for taking your own advice? :)


    If people don't like his interviews, why would they even read them?

    LOL! A fair point. I don't, and haven't for a long time, but people keep posting them here.
     
  21. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    Stryphe, I think you're being a wee bit unfair about complaining after the OOT announcement. The response in the BS was overwhelmingly positive at first. That someone would bring up that they're a bit skeptical about Lucas's intentions, and that they're frustrated because they finally caved and bought the SE becasue they never thought Lucas would release the OOT on DVD is comletely understandable and justified. Heck, you were pretty quick to jump on Georgie when news started floating around about the sound technology being used (stereo vs DD).

    The fact is, since the late 90s Lucas has been continually slamming those who constituted his original fan base with comments like 'half completed'. Now he gives us an inferior product in the hopes it will be enough to shoo us away. Sorry, mending fences takes a bit more effort. And Gomer's "he doesn't owe you anything" comments don't help either.
     
  22. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Oh, I wasn't saying everyone, or even most, at the sanctuary did complain, but some people did. I heard comments like "Look, now he's lying again, he said he'd never do it, that jerk!" or "He thinks this makes up for anything? [blank] him!" (OK, the [blank] him was never said, but it was implied). Now, some people had doubts, I had doubts, but that's different than complaining because he announced he's giving the fans what they want, which some people did.


    Heck, you were pretty quick to jump on Georgie when news started floating around about the sound technology being used (stereo vs DD).

    Yes, it annoyed the crap out of me that he wasn't putting it in 5.1. Still does. I assumed he was (made the most sense to me) until they announced otherwise.


    And Gomer's "he doesn't owe you anything" comments don't help either.

    Granted. If fans want to get along, they have to make that effort themselves. If they don't care, then they can keep talking at cross purposes. Some fans will never care abou getting along, that's just the way it is.
     
  23. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    :oops: I am well aware of bashers over-arching need to continually claim how much smarter they are than Lucas, but you honestly dont have a case. Lucas can "claim" whatever he wants whenever he wants to claim it and you cant stop him. I tend to believe him over you for several reasons not the least of which is the ridiculous amount of anger and time spent on discussing insepid topics like the CLoud City Scream.

    Exactly *Why* again, I am or anyone else supposed to give a rats asteroid? Who but a perpetual whiner could possibly care what version it is?

    I forgot, is this a message board or is this the old Soviet Union? If you don't like my opinion, rebutt it and tell me why I am wrong, but please don't tell me to go out and make a million dollar movie or shut up. It would be like you telling me not to criticize a politician cause I never ran for political office.

    No.
    I AM going to tell you to either do it better or shut up, for that is FAR more productive than this juvenile arguing over the scream. My point mainly is that I DOUBT with all severity that you would be so generous if the positions were reversed. If you had a million dollar movie would you honestly waste half a minute to listen to some big-mouth amatuer yutz on a message board and treat everything he says as holy expertise? Of course not. You'd tell him to go flip himself just like Lucas has done to you, and he was right to do it. No one makes movies for 30 years only to ceed all control to an amatuer just becuase the amatuer thinks he's being clever.
     
  24. Boskone_Kenobi

    Boskone_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Boskone,As it may surprise, I agree with your frustration about complaining to a certain extend. As I said above, based on the initial O-OT DVD announcement, it did prove complaining seems prevasive, no matter what. This kind of complaining is indeed frustrating and futile. That being said, some complaints are legimate, and, if presented properly, not unappropriate. True, it can be habit forming if one's not careful, but in any event, I doubt you are going to have any impact of a positive or productive nature by shouting down the people you disagree with. In fact, it really just looks like you are doing the same thing you accuse them of, more complaining. I seem to remember a Boskone_Kenobi recommending to me a softer approach based around reasoning things out with people instead of reacting. Are you game for taking your own advice

    I can see where you are coming from. But there is a substantial difference here in that I have no reason to believe people like Boba cannot be argued with reasonably. They are too quick to anger, too quick to complain, too quick to press the "self-important" button. They have no rational contribution to make to this debate or any other.

    But the sadder part is, ignoring them doesnt make them go away. On the contrary, they are proud about driving out the non-believers and it just fuels even more delusions of vindictive justice:
    "God has personally chosen ME to save the world from George Lucas! Now Explain the CLoud City Scream or be cast out and burn in the Lake of Fire!"

    I am giving them the only response they deserve. And to a degree, the only response they want. They did not come here to make friends, obviously, and they should be treated accordingly.
     
  25. Sanctuary_Moon

    Sanctuary_Moon Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2004
    I sense much anger in you, Boskone.


    Fair enough. Let George claim to have a vision when all the evidence suggests otherwise. If he is happy to look like a dishonest jackass, who am I to argue?
     
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