MS Update MS Update March 15, 2006

Can I just say that if this is true it's both disappointing and disturbing. The administration should never be doing anything to prevent people from being able to express themselves on an issue. Yes, sometimes some people can get rather verbose when talking about something, but that does not mean that they should not be allowed to have their full say on a matter. Yes, sometimes as an administrator you cannot reply with a 5 page response that covers everything that someone has brought up, but you should still be able to get out a few paragraphs with ease on something that are succinct enough to cover most concerns given that one of the primary roles of those with administrator positions is to be able to communicate with the general board population. And given the media through which you have to communicate, it is going to be harder to do so explicitly enough without having to take some time with responding.

This is the kind of thing where there is no actual clear line in the sand for anyone to be able to see. There is no way in which anyone here is able to know what the age of another user is unless they have met them in person. Even then, it is not just a matter of age but also internet knowledge. Unless public posts go completely over the line it isn't always directly possible to say that a person is harrassing another user, and you have to always give the benefit of the doubt where that is concerned (as hard as it is to do so). In regards to it occurring in private, or more damning evidence being given privately through the PM system, then the only way in which anyone is going to know about it is for a person to come forward. It is unfortunate that usually that only occurs after the fact.

If you know that something is going on and it originates from the JC, then share it explicitly with the administrators, including any screencaps/chat dumps/thread links that do exist. But part of it also require

 

Can I just say that I'm getting a little tired of being misrespresented between what is said here and what is said in a private PM conversation between you and I, TKL? I told you several times I've had no one PM me about this user and third party accusations would be followed up on if it appears to be a serious case presented with facts and users affected come forward and we are discussing that in Mod Squad, but we don't do witch hunts. There needs to be facts presented to us in detail as admins. I'll say again, I want post links, and if mods were pm'd as you said they were, I want times and who sent the pm.

As to me saying I won't go point for point, let's put it in the context it was said in... an arguement that was going on in Fan Fic Resource, it nothing to do with Comms or an e-predator situation. You guys are getting all kinds of issues confused and if you're going to make statements like the one you made about both Sape and I you need to 1) put it in the right context and 2) give all the relevant facts to go with that particular complaint.

Right now, in this thread the e-predator issue is DONE. Comms is not for laying out issues of this personal nature for everyone to see part of the picture and pick apart details that aren't complete or the whole story. I wont' say this again, the e-predator issue is being handled in MS, when we get any information that we'd need and the subject is closed for this thread. We can discuss harassment in general, but that is it.

 

OK, I'm glad I'm not the only one... I was beginning to wonder if 'Mara' was e-preying on a user called Anakin Solo!!

 

We have posted stuff. I was the one that trumpeted the call about a user that was harrassing all sorts of women. We got rid of two years ago.

 

I'd also ask that any pm's sent to me on the aforementioned situation be cc'd to DarthSapient and gabe, so that the three of us admins are on the same page.

 

May I ask you one thing. Do you tell your children that they can have sex with their Aunts or uncles because they don't share blood? Would it be a normal thing if you heard such a thing from your child? I don't want to see on a fanfiction board, that claims it's suppose to be PG, stories that might cause a problem for younger users in their future after reading such a story. Many times people said that minor groups of people with extreme are easy to control. But later history showed that when you give them one piece of pie, they'll do everything to take the whole pie. You told me in PM that Marakin is allowed as long as it doesn't turn toward sex theme then you will take messures ( which ended with closing a topic to remind you ). Here we have sex theme (sex scene) and suddenly everything is fine. So how does it all work?

I'm speechless So did you really told Rhonderoo about it or did you just lied to me to get rid off me?

Maybe you should ask your fellow fanfic mods for it since they knew about

And maybe I'm wrong but if I said that for example: "I find mods job as a joke" wouldn't this be offensive to mods who work on this boards? If it is then I think saying that you find as joke choosing by other people icon in public voting is clearly a break of TOS. How is suppose to feel a person that is responsible for icons on this board, when someone find his job as a joke and that people on this board are called hypocrits because they found other people icons cooler.

 

We go to lengths not to moderate opinions.

If someone says "I think all homosexuals are sick", they are permitted to. Similar if someone says "I think that most Muslims are terrorists" they can. Opinions like those are rightfully unpopular in today's society, however people are entitled to hold whatever opinions they want.

It is worth pointing out that pushing your opinion can lead to moderator intervention - ie posting "gays are sick", repeatedly in a thread dedicated to homosexual discussion would be considered trolling. Saying you don't like a particular icon isn't.

 

I'm going to ask for a little bit clearer explanation on exactly what your issue is, Chimpo.

The "incest" thing we've covered. Leona came to me about a fic with a 21 yr old Anakin Solo and Mara Jade with no mention of Luke or no minor/adult intimacy and I told her as long as it was in the limits, it was fine. A woman with someone who is not blood related to her, her "husband" in canon not in the story (could be an Alternative Univers, I don't know), and all intimacy portrayed within the FAQ guidelines. See, your problem is you are talking about two characters in the EU (which isn't even recognized as "canon" by a percentage of the population on these boards - and we're not going into 'canon' here) being in a work of FICTION, where Alternative scenarios are written everyday. The lines couldn't be more blurry, and the story is fine.

So now, I'd like to know exactly what your issue is with the Ars_longa post. You guys are going to clarify this stuff some, we're getting a little confused.

 

So now, I'd like to know exactly what your issue is with the Ars_longa post. You guys are going to clarify this stuff some, we're getting a little confused.

Yeah, I'd like to hear that too. Should be an interesting explanation.

(sits comfortably with lots of pop-corn)

 

I've never been much of a FanFic user, but can I get the ok to start a R2-D2/C3PO love story? Surely that wouldn't be considered incestious, and I can keep it clean in between PG metaphors.

 

This whole thread is totally surreal. Guys, we're talking about <i>Star Wars fanfic</i>, remember? Shouldn't we all be, like, banding together and embracing our geekiness instead of quibbling about icons and incest? Obviously some of this stuff is serious, but some of it seems like the product of serious boredom (on that note, wanna come write a paper for me? I'm writing one on "Star Wars" fanfic! You could help!) Seeing as the admins are the ones who get to set the rules that we the users agree to, I'm pretty okay letting them abide by the legal definition of incest and determining what is and isn't PG--this isn't a democracy, and we all knew that coming in. So scary sketchy PMs aside, I feel like a lot of these issues could be resolved by a big group hug.

Not to play the hippie card, of course. But I am kind of a hippie. Where's the love??

 

ASG - R2 is an astromed droid, while C3 is a protocol droid. I think that would technically be interspecies.

 

Also, if you let that story take place shortly after TPM, C3PO would be considered a droid in his childhood years since he has only recently been made. R2D2 would be considered a seasoned droid who has seen many worlds and has fought many battles. So, be carefull with that one.

 

Then tell me were in Star Wars do we have Aunt having sex with her Nephew?

BTW here you have a definition of Incest

And another one

Now tell me incest doesn't involve aunts and nephews

 

Many AU stories are possible in which Mara isnt married to Luke and therefore isnt an actual aunt.

 

I'm gonna write a FanFic, about their secret lovechild(droid) then. It would make for an awesome FanFic, because I can't think of anything crazier...... except maybe a Jedi and a Senator hooking up, but I don't want to go to far out there with my fiction.

 

Actually, your definition includes the term "blood relatives" Chimpo, which is a telling distinction.

incest n. sexual intercourse between close blood relatives, including brothers and sisters, parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, or aunts or uncles with nephews or nieces.

And in my dictionary incest is described as sex between two individuals who would not legally be allowed to marry.

People who cannot marry because of their relation to one another include parents and children, brothers and sisters, and grandparents and grandchildren. In addition, aunts and nephews, uncles and nieces, and half brothers and half sisters are prohibited from sexual contact

Half-siblings are included because they have a common genetic heritage. Aunts and uncles cannnot have sex with a child of their own sibling because they have a genetic bond. You can be an aunt or uncle and have no genetic ties to the niece or nephew. I have a dozen nephews but I am not related by blood to a single one of them, as I am an only child.

Technically speaking, if Mara divorced Luke she could marry Anakin Solo because they have NO GENETIC RELATIONSHIP, though he'd have to be at least 16 in my state. That is, if they were real.

 

Fine. Let it be your way. I have nothing else to say in this matter. I can see were I lose.

 

This topice scares me!!

I mean, if 'Mara' can get hooked up with the younger Solo what's next??? Luke/Liea love???

But seriously, I know that some people are scarily obsessive about their 'ships and characters but from what I gather, we're talking about an AU/EU fic (and as was mentioned before, some people consider the whole of the Expanded Universe just paid Fan Fic, often as not far surpassed by many of the outstanding writers in our community). Someone is really splitting hairs here trying to call it 'incest' and dragging out the ToS just because they don't like a particular story.

It's things like that which gives Fan fiction the unjust reputation of being solely populated from people from 'the Creepy side of the Force'*


*I do wish that was my euphanism, but credit must go to DarthLex who made that observation many moons agao about a character I had... still makes me .

 

PG-rated movies often have innuendo and situations that aren't quite child-friendly. That's why they're PG, which stands for "parental guidance."

 

Chiming in on two points:

First, off with regard to the allegations concerning the e-predator and the two recent incidents. I handled one of them and kept in close correspondance with the user while she PM'd the offending person that his advances were unwelcome and a source of discomfort. Case closed no problem, but I wanted to make it clear that this person was not simply cut off and told to go take care of it herself.

Secondly, consensual incest between two unrelated adults is not the same thing as incest between a minor and a blood relative. It has a different legal bearing and, while creepy, does not glorify or condone the sexual exploitation of children by their family members. Both the lack of blood relation and the adult status of the characters served as the lynch pin in this case. Had we been approached with a SW / Oedipus crossover (son/mother) I would have had a different opinion. As it is, I stand by my decision.

 

I just wanted to chime in and respond to a few things. First, rhonderoo and I, and now gabe and before him was Raven, we all read and respond as best we can to all PM's we receive. Whether or not others refer to something as drama doesn't affect us. We try to get to the heart of the matter, listen to all sides, and make the best decision we can with the best interests of the boards and users in mind.

Having said that, I haven't been here this weekend and this morning is the first I've heard about it. And so I'm responding. I've also replied to several PM's from both mods and Fan Fic users alike concerning this case. So there are things taking place though they may be handled via PMs given that's how some things were communicated to me.

As a father of two young children, anything to do with predatory behavior concerns me and it's a red flag to me as a mod. I take it very seriously and I assure you all mods do, especially rhonderoo and gabe as administrators. I was told via PM that there are offsite websites belonging to users on this site that are of concern. Moderating offsite behavior is something we typically don't become involved in unless it's an extreme or unique circumstance. If these sites are linked to in a signature or profile and it violates our rule here, then the link is in violation of the site or something we'll need to investigate further.

 

"f these sites are linked to in a signature or profile and it violates our rule here, then the link is in violation of the site or something we'll need to investigate further."

Does that include links to MySpace accounts, because it's been widely publicized in the press as of late that there are definetly "E-Predators" lurking all over the place over there. I only ask, because it seems like 1 in every 5 users has a link to the site, and their personal profile there.

 

Does that include links to MySpace accounts, because it's been widely publicized in the press as of late that there are definetly "E-Predators" lurking all over the place over there

As long as that particular account adheres to the TOS I doubt that will be a problem. Just my guess.