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Negative conduct of a moderator/possible selective enforcement of rules

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Scapro Tyler, Jun 17, 2016.

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  1. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening.

    First let me start by saying that if this thread is inappropriate please delete it or direct me to the proper resource. It was recommended by Diggy that I do this out in the open as opposed to privately so we "don't work in the shadows"

    The last few days I became involved in the Gun Control forum. This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart is it is to many others. I have the opinion that gun control is not the answer and many others disagree with me which is fine.

    My problem is, a blanket warning was issued (specifically tagging me and recommending that I not cry foul) after I made some statements (They will be quoted below). Initially I was not going to cry foul however the more debate that has gone on in the thread I can't help but feel that a specific moderator (anakinfansince1983) is not living up to the ideal that moderators are supposed to be at a higher standard.

    First let me start off with posts of my asking what would be considered a personal attack and why and then the clarifications of them.

    Gun Control
    Gun Control
    Gun Control
    Gun Control
    Gun Control

    Following will be the posts that I feel were personal attacks on me and the reasons why:Gun Control Labels gun advocates to be "dumb" based on a debate point. As a gun advocate this labels me personally as dumb
    Gun Control Personal attack on me. I stated my profession was an EMT and then used my beliefs about guns to state that I do not find human life to be valuable.
    Gun Control States that I personally should not be in possession of a firearm because of my worldview. Also calls me dishonest which I was not attempting to be, I was merely debating my point.
    Gun Control Calls me selfish
    Gun Control Calls me a terrible person for a worldview.

    Next we start the discussion that resulted in the blanket warning that only tagged me.I acknowledge based on the moderators statements and the rules clarifications that I was in the wrong
    Gun Control In this post I discuss how I feel that the real issue is that the schools are teaching to tests and not morals/ethics etc.
    Gun Control In this thread the above mentioned moderator took my previous post out of context and asserted that I made a claim that I had not(see previously linked post) Also calls me immoral because my worldview on guns (essentially if someone is breaking into my house I will defend my life and property as necessary) may result in a criminal being shot and or killed.
    Gun Control The post where I stepped over the line and deserved the warning I was given.
    Gun Control Additional the the above link
    Gun Control The warning after my statements above.

    After the initial warning some more discourse took place and then the following personal attacks were stated and a new blanket warning is issuedGun Control Calls me insane for my worldview.
    Gun Control Calls me a cowboy for my world view and then states I shouldn't have a gun for my world view
    Gun Control Openly mocks the concept of me reporting someone for what I am taking to be a personal attack.
    Gun Control Openly calls me a ****
    Gun Control Openly is happy that I am a "Cryer"
    Gun Control New blanket warning, no one person is mentioned. I am still the only person tagged/quoted in any warning (the first warning specifically)
    Gun Control I accidentally double post (not intentional) and get warned

    More personal attacks after the second warning
    Gun Control Attack on gun advocates as being "Mouth breathing"
    Gun Control Implies I would actually kill someone if they cut me off in traffic or got woken up. This is a character attack.
    Gun Control Prior to this comment he stated that meaningful change would only happen if I threw away my gun to which I replied when hell freezes over. This is a character attack because I won't conform to his world view.
    Gun Control The above mentioned moderator purposely attempted to bait a personal attack which from what I have read is something that moderators should be above.
    Gun Control Implies that I am evil due to my worldview
    Gun Control First moderator edit of a personal attack on a person's post
    Gun Control States that people who are gun advocates actually celebrate violence and death which is a character attack.
    Gun Control Calls "'Muricans" mentally ill.

    As you can imagine, there are dozens of pages of posts. I have gone through and taken the offending posts in my eyes as well as my own actions which were negative.

    I feel that first and foremost anakinfansince1983 is not living up to the ideals of a moderator at least in this particular discussion and secondly that the moderating of this thread has been spotty at best and purposefully selective at worst.

    In the interest of keeping this post from being a bible I will stop here and await any question any admin or other Moderator may have.

    Thank you for your consideration.
     
    PRENNTACULAR and Diggy like this.
  2. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Wow.

    That's a hell of a long, rambling, scattershot post to say "I want to express my views strongly but I certainly don't like it when others take me to task"

    Looked at the first few of your links, and it seems unclear whether you're complaining about one mod or several, since most links go to posts by someone other than the mod you've named.
    Maybe, if you don't want people to strongly object to your opinions on gun control, you could avoid it as a topic?

    Very first complaint: "a member labels me as dumb, because he thinks X group is dumb, and I am in X group. Therefore I personally am labelled dumb"

    For someone who seems to be quite the libertarian, it looks an awful lot like you're saying that no one can consider anything "dumb", in case anyone happens to fall into the category of being "dumb"
     
    Juliet316 and harpua like this.
  3. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Clarification:

    One mod in particular, AFS, is not living up to their role model as a Mod (IMHO).

    The moderators of the JCC have selectively enforced personal attacks on the thread. Only one person (me) has been named in a warning with the admonishment to "not cry foul" yet I have shown numerous other personal attacks that get treated with kids gloves if at all.
     
  4. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Well as a complete outsider to the conversation, your complaint looks far too broad and scattershot to be taken seriously by anyone. Especially with the occasional casual "oh yeah, here I did something wrong, BUT THEN..."

    I mean, it also strikes me as thoroughly odd that an advocate of lethal weapons would be able to get so angry about strong words or even ridicule. Maybe the way to resolve this yourself is think "if people using strong words gets me angry, then how angry might people get if we're talking about weapons that can kill"

    I mean, it's OK to ridicule ideas. If you have an idea, you need to be prepared to accept that that idea can be ridiculed; not jump into the Venn diagram of in the "ridiculed ideas" section and then cry foul at being ridiculed. That applies whether you're talking about colour correction in Geonosis scenes or gun control.
     
  5. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    That is superb.
     
    PRENNTACULAR and FatBurt like this.
  6. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Ridiculed for a specific idea is one thing. Personally attacked is another. I feel that comments crossed a line and I also feel that a moderator was part of the problem. That is what I wish to have addressed.
     
  7. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    If that's all that was happening, ridiculing or attacking the argument, I doubt there would be a problem. However, I don't think that is the same as what has been posted where Scapro's character was being attacked and not the argument. At one point he was attacked for not having the same view even though he is an EMT but was admonished when he did something similar, which he did admit was in the wrong about and apologized for.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Well, again, as a complete outsider to the conversation, you haven't made it clear exactly which post crossed a line, why you feel it crossed a line, and what the line is. Even within your own links you've shown a willingness to be abusive and obnoxious to others, so you certainly don't seem to be using a "I would never do this, yet a mod has done", so already there is a double standard on your part.

    So far as I can see, it looks like your moan is that in attempting to moderate a thread (pretty sure that's a mod's job) a moderator singled you out to ask you not to cry foul. Based on the OP here, it looks like that was a pretty sound judgement call, if a bit futile.

    But that's just my take. I doubt a public, lengthy, unbalanced diatribe is going to gain much traction. I'm pretty sure there's a procedure for reporting anyone you think has crossed a line, including mods. That's probably the less attention seeking way of trying to resolve something like this.
     
  9. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015

    Hence my first sentence of the entire post.

    I am not requesting any sort of double standard. I crossed the line, I acknowledge that, and I accept that. My problem is that while I and others like me may cross the line a moderator is held to a higher standard or at least should be.
     
  10. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    So far as I can tell, now that I've gone down this rabbit hole and rather wishing I hadn't, the "personal attacks" of which you refer, are actually nothing more than the unavoidable end product of discussing hypotheticals about gun ownership. Discuss a willingness to kill, and invariably you will receive criticism for that willingness. I'm not sure of the significance of the word "personal" in that context. Mostly because it isn't clear what the personal attack which is apparently at the centre of this, actually said. Since you linked to around 25 things.


    I don't think moderators are held to a "higher standard" - everyone posting here has to abide by the same terms and conditions, which is why it does strike me as strange that you're p***y about the behaviour of one/several mods, despite a willingness to post in the way you're criticising mods for.

    Add to that the lack of clarity about your actual complaint - what was the personal abuse? - and it looks like one long whinge
     
  11. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    I will happily disengage the rabbit hole since I think you and I going back and forth will not do anything productive as I do not believe you have any official standing in the forum. If I am wrong I apologize.
     
  12. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Didn't claim to have official standing. You should go through reporting procedure if you don't want others to comment on your thread.

    It's quite funny that after several times of asking you're not able to actually clarify what personal abuse you have suffered, and what line it crossed, though.
     
  13. Scapro Tyler

    Scapro Tyler Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    The above are direct character attacks or personal attacks. "That **** CP" isn't a direct personal attack?
     
  14. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    That particular thread has some amazing personal attacks in it. I wish the search function worked still because in that very thread there was a pretty astounding personal attack on me there. If I had the time, I'd look for it but I don't have the time at the moment.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014

    Eh? You said a mod personally attacked you. The person who said that isn't a mod.
    And yeah, it's certainly not clear what the specific post is that you feel crossed the line "from a mod"

    It actually reads like you've mistakenly attributed various posts to a mod, that's how unclear your post is.
     
  16. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    So, I try and help you out, and you turn on me, Scapro Tyler

    I thought we were friends.
     
    Scapro Tyler likes this.
  17. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    That was not what was said. He said failing to live up to the higher standard that mods are held to as stated in the rules of the JC. I happen to agree with him especially when that mod posts something that is blatantly baiting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Well, in all honesty I would say that most neutrals probably wouldn't see it that way.

    What it looks like to me, genuinely, is that there is a raging debate about an emotive issue, about which both sides of the debate have strayed pretty close to the bounds of what's acceptable, and both sides have been warned.

    The issue then is that the person doing the warning has an opinion, which can create a sense of injustice, because I guess it can feel like only "one side" has mod backing.

    The alternative is that mods don't express opinions, or that mods don't moderate. Neither of those seems workable, and you've still not clarified *exactly* what should have been done differently. Especially since you have acknowledged that you overstepped the mark yourself. I don't see the injustice, just a whinge.
     
  19. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Well, I think my first question would be why you went to a regular user rather than an uninvolved staff member for advice on how to properly submit a moderator complaint, because a staff member would have directed you to these guidelines: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/moderator-complaint-resolution-process.27141387/

    Secondly, I would then ask why, exactly, I am meant to draw the conclusion of improper staff conduct when, as nearly as I can tell, almost all of the posts you've chosen to link were not made by the staff member, nor is the staff member in question assigned to that section of the forums and thus automatically obligated to address all particular posts, especially in threads in which they are participating as we try to minimize those sorts of conflicts.

    Thirdly, several of the posts you've linked have been previously submitted for moderation via the report system, which I know is directly responsible for several of the warnings in that thread. You are also not necessarily privvy to behind the scenes actions that have been taken vis a vis some posts in that thread, and are in fact incorrect in assuming that you have been singled out for moderation.

    Fourthly, I don't particularly take kindly to bald-faced attempts to stir up drama in lieu of navigating the proper channels, so your thread will be locked. Feel free to PM myself or another administrator for further clarification.
     
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