Amph [NERRRD] Observations, rhetorical questions, comments & 55 Years of Star Trek (General Thread)

http://blog.trekcore.com/2020/10/watch-star-trek-discoverys-season-3-new-credits/

The

Spoiler

Wormhole

at the end of the opening credits seems to hint that i might be right with my theory.

 

" “We’re firmly in a new future where we are past all established canon,” Paradise says. “I keep calling it ‘fresh snow.’ We’ve got a landscape in front of us that we can populate as we like.” But that doesn’t mean the new season won’t resemble the Trek we know and love, Paradise reassures us. “Being beyond canon doesn’t mean that we ignore anything… but what going to the future lets us do is take a look at past canon in new ways. So species that may have been friendly toward one another, or not friendly to one another: Can we mix those up in new ways?” "

"Season 3’s big question, though, is what happened to Starfleet and the Federation; Burnham learns from Book that the Federation crumbled after a mysterious incident known as “The Burn.” Like Season 2’s Red Angel storyline, “The Burn” and how it impacted the Federation will be this season’s central mystery to unravel, Paradise hints, and will be “driving Burnham and the crew of the Discovery through the entire season.” The more things change on Discovery, it seems, the more they stay the same."

https://tvline.com/2020/10/13/star-trek-discovery-spoilers-season-3-burnham-time-jump-book/

Sounds like it might be possible, doesn't it?

 

I mean it's definitely possible, but I'm going with Occam's Razor first...

 

It's actually the easiest and most logical explanation for a lot of the details we've seen and heard about and because of that passes the test of Occam's razor imho.

For an example from a writer's viewpoint, wouldn't Dax return make the most sense and be the most poignant if there is a confrontation with the Pagh Wraiths? Don't forget Dukat murdered Jadzia with their help.

And as i mentioned before, the new combadges look kinda bajoran, don't they?

 

Spoiler

You posted a picture of a wormhole. Literally Discovery went through a wormhole at the end of S2. That's what I'm saying is Occam's Razor. Of course you could be correct, I've said it would be Dax for a while now...

 

The more I think about it the more I would'nt mind if they involved some Temporal Cold War stuff from ENT into S3 - it could be a nice way to A) redeem the rough edges of that story arc and B) tie into Enterprise or even bring back characters from that show.

The prophets did say Sisko still had more to do and we know their perception of time is'nt like ours, so they could easily be experiencing a future conflict with the Pah Wraiths in the 31st Century at the same time their talking to Sisko in the 24th (and we know from what they did with Akorem Laan that they can apparently move peaple through time using the wormhole). So there is that...

Not saying your right (though given how little we know we all just about have about equal chances of our speculation turning out correct at this point, lol), but it could easily work.

 

The answer to the mystery will be disappointing and convoluted because they came up with the mystery first.

 

You know JJ Abrams is'nt involved in this version of Star Trek, right?

In all likelyhood they started forming their ideas for S3's plot when they made the decision to send the ship to the future, and I would'nt be suprised it they had a solid idea of were they were going formed by the time they wrapped up filming on S2.

 

Alex Kurtzman is, and he and his team have followed the same dumb "mystery box" philosophy. I was mostly referring to what ****shows season 2 of Discovery and season 1 of Picard were. I had problems with Lower Decks, but it has the best plotting of the Kurtzman era and I don't think it's a coincidence it was more episodic and didn't bother with season-long "mysteries."

 

I really liked S2 of DISCO compared to S1 (which I hated) -- but it was also clear that they jettisoned the showrunners midway through the season again...

 

This was brought up in the Lower Decks thread, but has yet to be brought up her (for some reason), so I'll stay true to my avatar and be the first.

Spoiler

It's the Titan, baby!

Leaving aside the fact that I don't agree with your take on the quality of Picard and Disco season 2 (I think Picard's first season is probobly the best first season of Trek ever - though admittedly that's not really hard - and I think Disco's second season was a big improvment over its first, which I already liked to begin with) I don't really see JJ style mystery boxes with either show.

In order for something to be a "mystery box" you have to have no answer for the question your asking until you get to the point were you open it and need to figure something out. I see no reason to think Kurtzman and the others (Paradise, Chabon, Stewert ect) are planning out where they want to go in advance of getting their. Now you (and others) may not like were their going/have gone, but that does'nt mean they did'nt plan to go there.

For instance Rey's parentage is a mystery box becuase Abrams did'nt have a solid plan for her background, intended for the person who made the next film to figure out what it was and designed things so that the mystery itself was importent, not solving it. Things in Disco and Picard that are mysteries like, say, who created Dahj and Sonji, why they did this and how they are related to Data, are not mystery boxes, just regular, old-fashioned mysteries (and the first part - who created them - was'nt a mystery for very long, as we learned it was Maddox almost right away), becuase the showrunners always knew the answer(s) to the mysteries and unraveling said mysteries was importent to plot.

 

One reason to bring back Dax is to do the Trill mumbo Jumo past host trick and we can see Ezri and hopefully Jazida again, which it would be nice to see Jazdia again instead of her final bit being ragdolled by Dukat with fire shooting out of his mouth.

 

Regarding Jadzia it might be better to do that in Lower Decks, since the fact that it's a cartoon would allow you to dipict her as she was at the time she died (don't get me wrong, Terry Farrell looks great for fifty-six, but you'd still have to find an excuse for why she looks noticably older then when she died if she showed up Joran-style or something*, a problem you would'nt run into with Ezri since as far as we know she just went on living just fine after DS9 ended and "currently" looks like current-day Nicole de Boer just with spots).

*not that this would be an insermountable issue or anything.

 

Star Trek Into Darkness is on, and while I like the bit when Spock mind-melds with a dying Pike, I'm curious as to what Spock's motivations are at that point. I generally go with he's trying to comfort Pike as he passes (maybe even save a human's katra, if it works that way), maybe even saw an opportunity to find out what dying was like as scientific curiosity. Did a random google, best answer I found was this speculation

Why did Spock mind meld with Pike?
1. Curiosity about what it was like to die.
2. To try to bring some comfort to Pike.
3. To gather eyewitness information about the attack that was about to become unavailable otherwise.

Likely, all three reasons and more. Spock is a complex thinker.

 

That’s a good idea. They should have made a plot point in the movie. Pike had compartmentalized information that he couldn’t share with Kirk or Spock, but Spock has Pike’s knowledge and keeps this information to himself. He senses that that something about John Ericsson doesn’t add up and starts using the knowledge that he download from Pike’s mind to start piecing everything together. As a result he starts giving orders, which Kirk keeps countermanding because they don’t make sense, which brings Kirk and Spock into conflict. Eventually, Spock reveals his information and where he got it from and they work together.

 

I do think it'd be awesome if he pulled some John Harrison information from Pike but Pike is as clueless about the whole thing as Kirk and Co. are, it seems, cuz it's all a Section 31 operation by Admiral Marcus. But it could be possible Pike knew more. Spock does bring up later on that he did mind meld with Pike but more about what he felt "As Admiral Pike was dying, I joined with his consciousness and experienced what he felt at the moment of his passing. Anger. Confusion. Loneliness. Fear. I had experienced those feelings before, multiplied exponentially on the day my planet was destroyed. Such a feeling is something I choose never to experience again."

I wonder if in the Kelvin timeline the Battle at the Binary Stars/Klingon War happened 10 years before. Things do change a bit in that timeline (but I, and the filmmakers, prefer to think that Kirk and Spock met the same way at the Kobyoshi Maru training simulator in the Prime timeline). Marcus' entire motivation for waking up Khan is that he's spooked by the Klingons so it would add more to his reasoning if they just got the unholy hell beaten out of them 10 years before. Only thing Marcus says about the Klingons is "All-out war with the Klingons is inevitable, Mister Kirk. If you ask me, it's already begun. Since we first learned of their existence, the Klingon Empire has conquered and occupied two planets that we know of and fired on our ships half a dozen times. They are coming our way." That mostly sorta fits if the war happened in the Kelvin timeline too.Kelvin-Kronos has a smashed out probably-Praxis moon in the Kelvin timeline so they probably hit their environmental disaster earlier here which may have also affected things.

Speaking of Kelvin timeline Khan, I do remember these bits which feature a little extra of Cumberbatch-Khan performance. Maybe he was mulling over this as he waited on Kronos for the Enterprise to show up.

 

Obviously the big changes made to the Kelvin timeline was that the Federation knew exactly who the Romulans were and what they looked like by the time Nero attacked Vulcan, and the fact that Uhura could apparently translate the Romulan language.

 

It's a little unclear when Prime Timeline Kirk took the no-win-scenario test - but Spock joined the crew of the Enterprise in 2254 according to Memory Alpha, after becoming an officer in 2250.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Spock

Spock was commissioned as a Starfleet officer in 2250 with the serial number S 179-276 SP, and he held an A7 computer expert classification. In 2254, Spock was assigned to the USS Enterprise under the command of Captain Christopher Pike. (ST: "Q&A"; TOS: "The Enterprise Incident", "Court Martial", "The Ultimate Computer", "The Cage")

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk

Kirk didn't graduate till 2255. However, he entered the Academy in 2252, so if he took the test in 2253 or so, Spock could have been involved with it.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/James_T._Kirk

In 2252, Kirk entered Starfleet Academy, with help of Mallory, whose son later served under Kirk. (TOS: "Shore Leave", "The Apple") Kirk often spoke of his father as being his inspiration for joining Starfleet. (Star Trek)

In 2255, upon graduating from Starfleet Academy, Lieutenant Kirk began his service under Captain Garrovick. Kirk's first deep space assignment was as a lieutenant aboard Garrovick's USS Farragut. As a phaser gun crew member, he was assigned to a phaser station. (TOS: "The Corbomite Maneuver", "Obsession")

 

I think the problem is they already did the "Kirk and Spock don't trust each other and it cuases conflict" thing in the previous film and resolved it, so IMO that would be pretty redundent. Other then that there's really no good reason for Spock to keep any of that secret from Kirk (and as BigAl said, Pike did'nt know about it either).

Maybe in the Kelvin Timeline Burnham managed to successfully prevent the war at the Binary Stars (maybe Georgiou failed to retake control of the Shenzhou in time, or Burnham was the captain instead - or maybe she even had a different captain who listened to her advice), but the Federation and the Klingons stayed on a collision course to war; with the Klingons ramping up war production and cuasing Praxis to explode).

I wonder if Prime Timeline Admiral Marcus was one of the senior Section 31 officers purged by Control?

I mean Short Trek's flat out shows him joining the crew in 2254, so we don't really need to say "according to Memory Alpha."

But given Q&A seems to present him as having just graduated from the academy fairly recently (based on the way his conversation with Una goes) and the fact that peaple (normally) seem to attend the academy for four years, "commissioned as a Starfleet officer" might actually just refer to when he entered Starfleet in general.

I think we had this discussion a while ago, but the problem is Kirk's academy/early career is a bit messed up and inconsistent. Assuming he did four years as seems to be the norm it's actually more likely he graduated in 2256 (maybe he was provisional lieutenant onboard the Farragut as part of a training cruise or due to the war - heck, maybe he was just comissioned a year early due to the war).

Personally I took Burnham's parting words to Spock about how he needed to find someone who understood him to be a forshadowing reference to his relationship with Kirk, which seemed to imply to me that the two had'nt met yet, so maybe Spock spent some time working at the academy between the Battle of Xahea and when he returned to the Enterprise during the final scene of Season 2, and met Kirk their when he cheating on the test (which Spock could have designed - or helped design - back when he was a student).

 

I used the phrasing because I haven't actually seen that Short Treks episode.

I'd use the same sort of phrasing for something Star Wars that I haven't seen - "according to Wookieepedia's Canon page for" .

Memory Alpha is, after all, the "canon wiki" to Memory Beta's "Trek Legendsverse wiki" so to speak.

 

Fair enough. I was'nt trying to be rude and should probobly have put a at the end of the sentence.

 

So, uh, whats up with Daimon Tarr's landing party in The Last Outpost? I guess are they doped up on bettlesnuff or something?