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New sports forum discussion.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by ApolloSmileGirl, Oct 15, 2006.

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  1. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Jun 18, 2004
    First off, I do realize this has been brought up in the past, but It's been quite a while(maybe as long as year) since I've seen any discussion, and there have been plenty of new users that have registered in that time.

    Anyway, what I propose is for the TF.N staff to once again hear mine, as well as other user's, request for a forum dedicated to Sports and Athletics.

    All I ask of the MS is to leave this thread open for at least two weeks, so people can voice their opinion. I'd also like to point out that when it's been discussed in the past, it's been done by a small fraction of users. Most users either aren't aware of Comms, or never visit the area to give their 2 cents. I've notified several users that have never been involved in past discussions, and hopefully you'll see that there is enough interest from the users here, to at least warrant a trial run for a sports forum.

    Past MS takes on the request for a sports forum
    There isn't enough demand for a sports forum.

    Personally, I disagree with this, and hopefully in the next few weeks this thread will show you that there is a big enough interest, if not outright demand, to sustain a sports forum community.

    Past MS takes on the request for a sports forum
    There aren't enough topics to keep a Sports forum fresh and healthy

    As long as a sports forum isn't limited to just official threads, I think a forum could easily stay fresh. If the topic has to do with the actual game or sporting event, then I agree that they should go in an official thread, however not every public aspect of a athlete's life necessarily has to be redirected to an official thread. If Lance Armstrong had to go thru another bout with cancer, it shouldn't necessarily be redirected to the cycling thread. If a football player is accused or convicted of a crime(because sadly that is an aspect of sports), it doesn't necessarily need to be redirected to the NFL thread for discussion. There are plenty of topics in the world of sports, regarding athletes, that don't have to go in an official thread.

    Potential "Official" threads

    1. NFL

    2. NHL

    3. NBA

    4. MLB

    5. WNBA

    6. NCAA Basketball

    7. NCAA Football

    8. WWE and other wrestling leagues

    9. Olympics(Summer and Winter games)

    10. Pro Skateboarding

    11. Pro Snowboarding

    12. Pro Inline Skating

    13. FIFA

    14. Nascar

    15. IRL racing

    16. Horse racing

    17. Cricket

    18. World cup

    19. Summer baseball classic

    20. Summer league Basketball(International)

    21. NFL EUROPE

    22. BMX

    23. Motocross

    24. Rugby

    25. PGA(Pro Golf)

    26. LPGA(Women's Pro Golf)

    27. World Series of Poker(Texas hold' em is doubling in popularity almost annually)

    28. UFC

    29. Cycling

    30. Pro Tennis

    Potential threads for discussion of less followed sports, or athletic events

    31. Dance(Particularly Ballet)

    32. Gymnastics

    33. Pro Ice Skating

    34. Bowling

    35. Strong man contests

    36. Volleyball(College, and Beach)

    37. Little league world series

    38. College competitive cheerleading

    39. Women's NCAA basketball

    40. Amateur racing
  2. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Jun 18, 2004
    Continued from above

    Potential discussion threads
    Many of our users participate in Fantasy leagues, having official discussion threads would be a good place to brag about their weekly results, especially if it's a league participated by fellow JCers(I personally belong to three JCC football leagues).

    41. NFL Fantasy League Discussion

    42. NHL Fantasy League Discussion

    43. NBA Fantasy League Discussion

    44. MLB Fantasy League Discussion

    45. Fifa Fantasy League Discussion(I'm assuming they have Fantasy leagues, I don't know for sure)

    46. Draft threads for draft day discussion(particularly NBA, and NFL)

    47. Yoga discussion

    48. Workout regimen discussion

    49. Fitness and health discussion

    50. Diet and supplement discussion

    Now, that's 50 potential topics, and that's off the top of my head. I imagine that if a Sports forum is considered and allowed a trail basis, there will be plenty potential for more topics and threads.

    Now, I know that some of the sports/athletic activities that I presented are more than likely not something that will be particularly popular. Do, I follow all of the above? No, but it'd be nice to know that I'd have a place to discuss them if I did. The problem with some of the more obscure sports is that if someone made a thread in the JCC, even if just a few people participated in it regularly, is that they tend to sink so quickly in a forum as busy as the JCC, that it's hard to find them a lot of the time.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that all sports threads be moved to a sports forum. I think that the The Amphitheatre has proven that basically any topic posted in there, could be posted in the JCC, you're just giving the Music/TV/Film genres a specific forum. I strongly believe that the same formula could work for a Sports/Athletic forum, if given a chance.

    I certainly don?t think it?d rob the JCC of any users, which is one of the only possible negative effects I could see by giving sports it?s own forum.

    You wouldn?t need more than one or two moderators, and I?m sure you could get already existing mods to take care of the forum, while under a trial basis.

    Please, take what I?ve said into consideration, as well as the people that chime in with their opinions on why a Sports/Athletics forum would be beneficial to the users here, as well as form a new and positive community .
  3. Squishy_Vic

    Squishy_Vic Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 18, 2004
    I agree that we should have a NFL forum. Football is my favorite sport besides soccer and when football season comes around, it is all over the place.

    News on this and that such as: players being released or traded, opinions on players post game discussions, opinions on coaches and how they're doing, discussions on the games that have recently taken place, discussions on each team, opinions on sportscasters and what we have to say about their opinion, voting on best player or team or "who will go to the super bowl", etc.

    I believe there are many topics we can all discuss and enjoy, especially us football fans who follow each game and trade and such. I really would hope this could happen because I sure have a lot to say about the NFL.

    Great suggestion, ASG. :)
  4. MerkinMan

    MerkinMan Jedi Youngling star 3

    Aug 22, 2006

    Awesome idea! Right now there are NFL, NHL, NCAA, Soccer, and WWF threads just on page 1 in the JCC. I really think sports deserves it's own forum. Hell, it would be viewed more than any SW movie forum without a doubt.

    Great idea! =D=
  5. deltron_zero

    deltron_zero Jedi Master star 6

    Feb 1, 2002

    i don't think it's really necessary. but then nothing about these here jedi council forums is "really necessary". if it might make some people's time here more enjoyable it's worth a shot.
  6. TheBoogieMan

    TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 14, 2001
    I'll support anything if it looks like a very large group of users wants it. If it looks like there are a lot of people behind this, then I think it should be done. The creation of the Amph has proven that a grassroots movement can get things right in the JC. Nevertheless, the proof will be in the pudding (or, this thread :p ). Well done on the way you've written up this post, ASG. But be warned, the Amph went through more well-written petitions before it was created.

    I will say, though, that I believe that the sports threads provide an excellent lubricant (lol) for the JCC as they currently stand. In other words, they provide a huge community builder, and I'm not sure that the JCC would be the same without them. What about a recent example: "lol @ Arsenal"? I don't enter the Football (soccer) thread, yet I still get a lot of enjoyment out of the way this phrase is thrown around.

    Also, with the Amph, it was a question of in-depth threads on arts not getting enough activity to truly thrive. Giving them open space proved wonderful for the life of those threads. With sports, it seems that it's more a case of discussion being curtailed into three or four select threads and the users wanting more room to branch out in new threads.
  7. Tabula Rasa

    Tabula Rasa Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 8, 1998
    As Boogie said, Sports are big part of the JCC. Big community builder. I won't let it be taken from the JCC. Enough has been taken from the JCC over the years. Keep taking social elements out of it and it will die.

    All fifty somewhat topics you posted up there can be discussed in JCC if someone wants to do so. They can be added to the index right away at their request and they'll be easily accessible and just as available to people as they would be in a seperate forum.
  8. DarthAttorney

    DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 8, 2000
    "Keep taking social elements out of it and it will die."

    On a scale of 1 to 5, I'd highly disagree with that comment. To say that a forum dedicated to random rubbish (let's call a spade a spade here) would falter if a fairly small aspect of it was removed isn't really fair. I also can't imagine that moving discussion of sports to a different forum would stop the users who regularly post in the WWE thread (for example) from swinging through JCC to throw out their normal responses to other topics.

    On the flip side, I don't see a huge number of benefits in pulling the content out of JCC when it's really not clogging the forum or creating a problem in the first place. If there's enough interest from a user base, I'd say you should do it. If it floats then great. If it doesn't, oh well, throw it back into JCC after a 3 month trial.
  9. FatBurt

    FatBurt Chosen One star 6

    Jul 21, 2003
    //Waits for Everton.

    I agree that sports are a HUGE part of the JCC but I also agree with ASG that the more obscure sports would drown in the day to day posting in the JCC and although they could be added to the index as gabe said any new user is not likely to look for a thread on "Competition Dance" in the JCC index as it's huge.

    A dedicated sports forum would be beneficial in this way, it would also help reduce the spamming and derailment that a "Competition Dance" thread would get in the JCC.

    I don't think ASG is suggestion that the existing sports threads be taken out of the JCC either just like the movie forum still has mirror threads in the JCC so should a sports forum but there would be more chance for in depth discussion on sportsmen/women and teams.

    It's a forum where I would expect more in depth discussion e.g.

    Team X discussion thread (dedicated discussion over a specific team and it's players)

    International Teams Vs Clubs Teams (Happens everytime we get England call ups) and could be done for a lot of sports I assume.

    Sports wages, too much or just right.

    Do players have too much power over their clubs


  10. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2002
    You've missed the main previous concern - that the JC isn't a diverse internet message board, it is a message board focused towards discussion of StarWars. Recently we've increased our diversity to create the Sci-Fi forums, but they are simply an extension of the major theme of the JC. StarWars is Sci-Fi.

    That, coupled with the negative impact it would have on the JCC means I personally wouldn't support the generation of a forum.
  11. Kyptastic

    Kyptastic VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 10, 2005
    I would love a dedicated sports forum (especially since I don't veture into the YJCC).

    From what I've heard, the Amphitheatre doesn't interfere with the JCC at all. Neither does the Senate and Census and Games. It's basically the same principle.

    And if this is a dedicated Star Wars message board, why do we have the JCC and offshoot forums at all?
  12. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2002
    The JCC was originally formed as the single non-StarWars forum to remove what was essentially off topic spam from dedicated forums. The dedicated forums ran the risk of being totally derailed with non-StarWars topics, and the JCC was the answer. Over time the Senate broke off to allow "serious" dicussion on various topics, while the JCC retained an "informal" discussion on various topics (with many topics overlapping). This separation was very beneficial to the community and has improved both forums. (Apologies to the

    It is important to have a single offtopic forum in any community as a place to discuss everyday (non StarWars) matters with StarWars fans. The JCC is easily the biggest forum at the JC, and is a major reason that a great number of users (myself included) still return to the JC on a daily basis.

    Sports forum part of the attractiveness of JCC and people respond to other topics while returning to the JCC to check their sports threads. The Sports threads are great, and retain many users who have built important communities within the sports threads (LOL@Arsenal).

    I can't see any benefit of stripping the sports threads out of the JCC, other than making a sports forum simply for the sake of having a sports forum.

    I disagree. Sports is a single subject, whereas the Senate, Amp and Census cover a large multitude of subjects.
  13. TheBoogieMan

    TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 14, 2001
    Personally, I disagree with the idea that we shouldn't have new forums if they aren't SW related. Any cursory glance at the history of the JC will show that it has grown most effectively when it has evolved pragmatically, rather than being forced into correct pigeon-holes for discussion. If there is (hypothetically) huge demand for a sports forum, then I don't see any reason at all as to why we should let some long-gone idea of what this forum is about dictate our growth.
  14. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Aug 10, 2001
    I can't see the point, really. JCC deals with global sports, like Football, whilst FanForce Forums are capable of dealing with more individual sports, unique to individual countries.

    Creating a new forum seems like a bit of an unheval for something that already seems to be quite well catered for. Then again, I am open to being persuaded about this, so I'll keep an open mind for now. [face_thinking]
  15. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 14, 2001
    What malkie said.
    It's okay for a Star Wars site to venture outside of Star Wars a little, and both SFF and Amphitheatre are related to Star Wars - Amp because most SW fans like movies, books and/or music (to simplify it) and Sci-Fi/Fantasy because SW is Sci-Fi/Fantasy. JCC because every board needs an off-topic forum. (Can't defend the Senate Floor, though, because personally I never saw the point, but I don't care about its topics at all, anyway. But I'd rather have only 1 forum I don't see the point in than 2 of them ;))

    Sports has nothing to do with this site's main focus.

    Underwater Basket Weaving has more to do with it :p

    Also, it's fine in JCC. I used to hate that 60% of the site were all those huge threads with tens of thousands replies and I needed a magnifying glass to find new threads, but I don't feel that way anymore. I think there are less pure social threads now and most(?) of the games moved to Census. So my only reason, personally, to support a Sports forum is also gone. They don't clutter up JCC. And apparently they even contribute to its community and that can't be anything but a reason to keep it.
  16. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Jun 18, 2004
    I made it quite apparent in my opening post that I was not suggesting that sports threads in any way be removed from the JCC. I requested that Sports be given it's own forum so that the users that like to discuss the subject here could do it in a more comprahensive fashion. I.E. 90% of threads not being redirected to an official thread, just because it's a news story about a player from a particular sport. Or, something like fantasy league discussion being redirected to an official thread for the sport itself, not a thread discussing Fantasy numbers, stats, etc. Or minor to obscure sports, while some may be interested in the topic, drowning under 100 fluff threads a day.

    I wouldn't even be requesting a forum, if the rules for posting threads on the topic of sports in the JCC weren't so constrictive.

    I don't think the JCC would suffer in the least, because I'm not suggesting that sports threads be removed from there. There are identical threads in the JCC and the Amphitheatre and the JCC, for LOST, 24, upcoming movies, discussion of certain movies. It's never stopped people from posting in both. I don't see why anyone thinks it'd be different in this case.
  17. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 2, 2000
    Being an absolute fool when it comes to sports, I can't say if this is really going to hold true for sports, but I'll just say (again) that as regards the Amp and the Senate, those forums did not take any topics out of JCC.

    The same topics are discussed in the Amp and JCC; the same topics are discussed in the Senate and JCC.

    It's the way in which those topics are discussed that seperates the forum.

    Would this perhaps be true as well for a sports forum?

    It's really no skin off my nose either way; I certainly won't be posting in it if we get one. :p

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 23, 2002
    Alright, I remember when this came up previously a few years ago or whatever. Can't remember if I gave my opinion then, but I'm going to give it now.

    First off, I don't see a Sports forum detracting from the JCC at all. We only have a few official threads in the JCC for sports as is. The one I frequent the most is the NCAA Football thread, which holds some good discussions from time to time but things get lost rather easily in there because most users want to get the point of how their team fared compared to any in-dept analysis of what happened in such and such game.

    There is a vast expanse that the JC is not allowing to reach it's potential because we have official threads only in the JCC. If I want to talk in depth about this weeks BCS standings and how they were formulated and a few people join in, then you're going to have others posting about their teams and all of a sudden there are four topics going on in one thread and things are too rushed. I believe you could have several sports forums on the JC and have them be quite successful, one for now would be the best for a trial run.

    Another problem with the status quo is that if I want to make a thread discusses the pros and cons of a football playoff system for college, I can't do it. It's going to get locked and told to go into the official thread. All I'm going to do by bringing up the playoff possibilities is hijack the thread, diminish other discussion about teams/games, and crowd up the whole thread.

    I remember after ROTS came out Sapient posted a thread in here discussing how he wanted to see this place grow despite the PT being over. This is a step in that direction and growth is being stunted right now because of the JC's policy on the topic. I know Sports isn't exactly fitting in well with the Star Wars theme but if your goal is to promote growth, sometimes you need to think outside the box a bit. The Administration did a nice job with the Sci-Fi forums, I lurk in them often.

    This is a natural progression of the forums not being stagnant. This place isn't terribly busy anymore, and I don't believe that's always a horrible thing but it isn't going to cause THAT much of an issue for the Administration, will it? A couple people might need to be promoted in order to moderate the forum, but once the forum is created it would seemingly run itself(sports wouldn't seem to be a big TOS violation area, IMO).

    Maybe some people agree and I know people obviously disagree for varying reasons, but I see this as much more of an opportunity than a risk.
  19. George_Roper

    George_Roper Jedi Knight star 7

    May 1, 2005
    WHy not just relax the rules in the JCC with regards to what has to be posted in the official threads. i.e. if an athlete is in the news for something off of the field, it's okay to create a thread about it. People who would never go into the related official thread would probably take part in the discussion.

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 23, 2002
    It's not just that though... Fans can breakdown a game or team in particular and if we had the freedom to do that there would be an overwhelming amount of sports related threads.

    By the time January rolled around, you'd have the JCC packed to the gills with BCS bowl game threads and NFL football playoff threads. That's just the way I see it.
  21. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Aug 5, 2003
    That was one of my compromises when I drafted an extensive proposal the last time we had this debate. If there can't be a dedicated sports forum, then at least become more liberal with the sports topics. Instead of compressed Official Threads, have various other topics that can thrive in their own dedicated thread. Of course, the only problem is figuring out what topics stay in the Official Threads and what topics merit their own threads.
  22. ApolloSmileGirl

    ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Knight star 8

    Jun 18, 2004
    Which would be a problem solved, if Sports was given a dedicated forum.
  23. George_Roper

    George_Roper Jedi Knight star 7

    May 1, 2005
    On field = official thread
    Off field = stand alone thread
  24. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Aug 10, 2001
    Would this new forum be open to UK sports, of French sports, or Mongolian sports, for instance? Of would it be US'centric?

    You see, my problem here is that generally JCC caters quite well for big, global sports, IMO. Things like European football and American Football and the Olympics. All these things are dealt with quite well in JCC, I think.

    Meanwhile, more local sports, like in the UK we have sports such as Cricket, Rugby, Snooker or Darts, and also local football teams in lower divisions, and these kind of sports can be quite sufficiantly catered for by Fan Force Forums, IMO. So, I'm still struggling to see where the demand for this is?

    On the other hand, I don't believe that just because we're a Star Wars based site, we shouldn't or can't broaden out our appeal, by including a Sports Forum. I post frequently on a weather discussion board and that board also has a sports forum and both forums live quite happily and independetly of each other. So, I'm really waiting to see how a sports forum here would work and whether there really is a demand for it.

    EMPEROR_WINDU Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 23, 2002

    This would and does stifle discussion. There are dozens of college football games every week for example that don't have the opportunity to be discussed because it has to be crammed in the Official thread.

    I think it would be US based, but not exclusively so (there is a rather large majority of US users here). The demand is there for American sports however, that much is clear to me. It's just a matter of getting the interested people over here and voicing their opinions.
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