Discussion in 'Communications' started by Fatboy_Roberts, Apr 1, 2001.
That should read, "provide a great service" I typed that early this morning.
OK, let me start with Yodaman and A-P. I understand what you are saying. I was a little tired last night (alright, maybe that's an understatement), and that whole discussion turned into the exact opposite of what I wanted it to be in the first place. Originally, it was me pointing out to Ternian that he wouldn't convert many people over to "his side" because they had already made their decision.
Then, he pointed out to me that that was not his objective. That changed everything. I was trying to help him; help everyone; by trying to discover the truth.
Because Ternian and DLM are contradicting each other. So obviously, one of them is lying. I do not think taht DLM is lying, nor Ternian. I think that both stories are slightly skewed, in a way that makes it seem like one is lying and the other isn't.
I know that DLM is human, and that she can make mistakes. However, I was just trying to figure out what happened.
And let me restate myself: I don't have a problem with Ternian. None at all. I think he's a good guy and all, and taht he added to discussions in NS. What I *am* against is the "non-spoiler" report thread. I don't have a problem with it directly - I can choose not to go in it; but I do have an indirect problem with it. Because members who participate in that thread and learn these "non-spoiler" spoilers bring them up in other discussions, and spoil others.
I would have no problem with Ternian back in the NS forum. What I would have a problem with would be him back and making another one of these "non-spoiler" spoiler threads.
In any case, let me get on with Joey.
You said taht you are :
a nonspoiler that likes to know things like:
1. Planet Names
2. Designs and locations
3. Character names
OK. Let me run through this list against the rules.
First, the rules:
1) Anything dated prior to May 19, 1999 from any official or unofficial source is not a spoiler.
2) Anything said by Lucas, McCallum, or any other individual ranking high in the Lucasfilm hierarchy is not a spoiler. Anything said by a mid- to lower- level employee, like the ones who leak info to TF.N, is a spoiler.
3) Quotes from actors, stunt doubles, etc., who were on the set of Episode 2 are not considered spoilers.
4) Any information from any issue of Star Wars Insider is not a spoiler. Information from any tabloid or other publication dated after 5/19/99 is.
5) Any information taken from the official site, including the Select pics, is not a spoiler.
Alright. If anything I say below is incorrect, correct me.
#1 (Planet names)
1. I do not believe that any new planet names were given out before the relase of Episode I.
2. I do not believe that GL or any high-up LFL personas have given out the planet names
3. I do not believe that quotes from actors, etc. have given out any new planet names.
4. I do not believe taht the Insider has given out any new planet names
5. I do not believe that Select pics or anything else from the Official site has given out any new planet names except for Alderaan.
#2 (Designs and locations)
I do not know about this at all, so I can't say anything about this.
#3 (Character names)
1. I do not believe that any character names for Episodes II + III were confirmed before the relase of TPM
2. I know that Gl has confirmed SOME names (I know one of them), but I believe that top LFL employees have not confirmed the majority of them
3. I do not believe that quotes from actors, etc. have confirmed any new character names, though they might have because GL did.
4. I do not believe taht the Insider has confirmed any character names, though they might have because GL did.
5. I do not believe that teh Official site has given out any new character names. However, i could be incorrect because I have not gone to the "llist of characters" page there for quite some time.
Now, people who enjoy the "non-spoiler" report thread: Does Ternian and teh oterhs who report there give you these types of things?
Joey, Ternian, I hope you guys feel cool with your semi-flaming signitures. I know I think you are cool.
"What I *am* against is the "non-spoiler" report thread...because members who participate in that thread and learn these "non-spoiler" spoilers bring them up in other discussions, and spoil others."
And what if it turns out that no one in that thread was spoiled, as Ternian has been saying all along? Would you still be against it then?
"Now, people who enjoy the "non-spoiler" report thread: Does Ternian and teh oterhs who report there give you these types of things?"
"Obviously, there was some spoiler stuff in that thread, if they gave out stuff like that."
Mr. P...I think the whole point of Joey's post was that while *he* personally wants to know that stuff, that Ternian has *refused* to answer his questions on them, because he knew he'd be giving too much away. The main issue was that even when directly asked by people in the NS forum, Ternian wouldn't give them the answers.
Running down the rules like that is fine...but what was the point of it, since Joey has said that his questions on those points were never answered by Ternian?
This is old news. Who cares of this nonsense anymore?
Joey said that he wanted to know those things. He said that Ternian at many points refused to tell some things b/c he said they were spoilers. That is good. But Joey never said that Ternian refused to tell *those* things that Joey specifically mentioned.
And he only mentioned Ternian with that. What about the other people who posted in the "Non-spoiler" report thread? THis is about the thread, not about Ternian himself.
"He said that Ternian at many points refused to tell some things b/c he said they were spoilers. That is good. But Joey never said that Ternian refused to tell *those* things that Joey specifically mentioned."
This is what Joey wrote:
"I am a nonspoiler that likes to know things like:
1. Planet Names
2. Designs and locations
3. Character names(with an exception, but too late now(it got it from a spy report, NOT TERNIAN))
Ternian on SEVERAL occasions has told us this is a paraphrase:
"I am not going to answer that question, why it may be non spoiler, aspects of it will ruin surprise sequences.""
But...you think that the list of things he wanted to know about, and the sentences *right after it* saying that Ternian wouldn't tell him things are somehow not connected to each other? Why?
"And he only mentioned Ternian with that. What about the other people who posted in the "Non-spoiler" report thread?"
Ternian is the most important person to discuss here...but in any event, this is what Joey said:
"Ternian, Green Cross and other members to a great service to those of us who like to know more than people like Windy(see sig)."
I suppose Joey could list all the "other members" individually, with an attached, clearly defined list of what they would and would not tell him, but is that *really* necessary to understanding what he meant?
If you have qualms about the thread being in NSA, you should take them to the discussion in MISC. This really isn't the thread for that.
I never mentioned 'spoilers' as defined by the Rules Of the Forum you have posted. No one else posted 'spoilers' as defined by the Rules of the Forum you have posted.
It is quite clear that unless you provide actual proof, your case against me posting spoilers in NSA is foundless.
As I said to Dark Lady Mara and you, please present proof where I mentioned spoilers.
Drop it. Even if you continue to whine nothing will happen, and you will only succeed in annoying the admins.
"This bickering is pointless!"
Seriously, would people like to let this slide now? It's only a message board, for God's sake!
DLM was perfectly within her rights to tell Ternian to cease and desist from posting spoilers/apparent spoilers in a non-spoiler forum. She may have overreacted in applying a ban, but she's now lifted that.
Calling DLM a liar isn't going to get anyone anywhere, either.
And those people who feel the need to display their grievances about this matter in their signatures are just being childish, IMHO.
It's easy to say "Just let it go," when you're not the one being accused.
CA, DLM was NOT in the right to stop me from posting in that forum since I didn't post 'spoilers'.
As for the ban, it really hasn't been lifted since I am still banned from the NSA even though NO RULES have been changed since the beginning of this incident.
I welcome you comments, but please get the facts straight before commenting.
Interesting. When a member makes a mistake he has to smootch an admin's butt to get re-instated but when a member feels wrongly accused and apparently has evidence to back up his claim, then he's told that it's just a message board and to drop it.
I still don't have enough info to comment on the situation itself but if the guy has a legitimate complaint then I don't think he should be told to shut up just because a lack of response from the admin has caused this thread to get old.
Well put, Padme Bra.
"Joey said that he wanted to know those things. He said that Ternian at many points refused to tell some things b/c he said they were spoilers. That is good. But Joey never said that Ternian refused to tell *those* things that Joey specifically mentioned."
Yes, he will tell us things that are minor spoilers, IF AND ONLY IF WE ASK FOR THEM!
He never mentions planet names, Locations, or characters in the Non spoiler thread. In fact I approached him with a question about a certain Ep2 character. I knew it was probably a big spoiler when I accidently read it. I asked him and his response was
"This is very complicated and I would suggest you not ask anymore questions about this character or you WILL be spoiled. "
Back to Mr. P:
"And he only mentioned Ternian with that. What about the other people who posted in the "Non-spoiler" report thread? THis is about the thread, not about Ternian himself."
Then moderate the people who spoil(of which I have seen none). Ternian et al. are just pschying us up. There is very little substance at all to it. When ever I have a specific question I will direct it to him. For example I asked if Alderaan would be in Episode 2, it was answered in the thread by someone else(lord tiron). It got deleted because it was considered a spoiler. I then got a PM from him, with the answer.
I am getting to answering the rest of you that posed questions but I don't want to make a post that is 9 pages long.
Edited for clarification on a few points
I will answer Ami-Padme and ObiWan McCartney together
Do I feel special or "cool"? Yeah, but I have had a fantastic self esteem my entire life. I have been self actualized and Mazlov and all his liberal artsy crap have been fulfilled. I feel great. However, this is TOTALLY unrelated to my signature, which is mainly to spread the idea that some members are too uptight through exaggeration, but I won't mention any names :-D Relax frankie...
Ami-Padme and others that are reading:
I agree with you that it would be fairly pointless to list all the names of EVERYONE who has answered questions and what they answered. Ternian and Green Cross have been my two major resources, with Ternian being the first(and most amount) and Green Cross being the newest addition to the forum(2nd in providing information because I just met him)
Both of these guys are super helpful and make the Non Spoiler forum much less boring. They also make the days go by much faster during the wait for E2. Of which I am sure that you (all) would agree.
This is a toughie.
I believe that Ternian never intended to tease or provoke anyone in the NS forum because he is spoiler-friendly and is sincere in his belief that he posted no spoilers.
I also believe that DLM is not a liar and she moderated the situation based on her best judgement to protect NS and not out of pettiness or spite.
From what I saw, Ternian posted no spoilers, but I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle.
It's easy enough for cleo or another impartial 3rd party admin to verify the accuracy of Ternian's PM's so that is not a problem. (Unless cleo is unwilling to take a look. Her call.)
The tough part is verifying the original content of the posts that DLM edited in the threads in question. I never saw the original posts and unless someone has a pre-edited version saved somewhere on their harddrive there is no way of knowing for sure what was written. That leaves it as a he-said/she-said situation with very little possibility of a consensus being reached.
Unfortunately, if no one can produce an original thread, right or wrong it looks like Ternian might be stuck. I wish it were otherwise.
Just my 2 credits.
13 pages in and Fatboy says:
Wow. Had no idea. 13 pages...(long whistling noise)
Anyway, I'm just wondering why numerous people are saying "I don't know what all went on, so I can't say" when--in EXCRUCIATING detail from BOTH sides the whole thing is laid out. This thing is 13 pages of DETAILS, mostly. the full story is IN here. All you gotta do to find out is read the posts.
The problem is fatboy, the facts are conflicting.
Double post, but the messageboard said my message didn't get through. Oh well...
One tiny hitch: the ORIGINAL posts DLM had trouble with have long since been edited. Without seeing what Ternian initially wrote, we can't judge for sure if they contained spoilers or not.
That reduces it to one's word against the other's - a simple albiet frustrating reality.
Dark Lady Mara only edited one post and that was not deemed a spoiler by her, the old rules and the new rules.
Ternian, since you have been unbanned, you should work for the
You know he is very popular amongst the Internet Starwars Community.
*grabs Chyren's big stick, and beats thread to a pulp*