Non Spoiler Forum Brouhaha...Big Question Marks

If the rules in the non-spoiler forum have changed to include thread's like Ternian's as "spoilers," fine...but again, I ask, did Ternian actually *break* any of the previously established rules in that thread? Or does this all come down to the fear of certain posters that even if he's followed the rules to this point, he might, at some time in the future, spoil you? I don't think that closing a thread or banning someone because of what you're worried they *might* do is the best idea. Especially when the member in question doesn't seem to have a history of breaking the rules. I think it's the same with his "spoiler" sig. He didn't actually spoil anyone, but the thought that he *could* have gets people all riled up. We're all in danger of being spoiled, purposefully or accidentally, every day we post on *any* of the forums here. Addressing that by going after someone who has tried to follow the set-out rules, or by closing threads that many NS people enjoyed, seems silly to me.

 

But ami, what Mr P and I are trying to say is that his thread was closed for reasons most probably related to spoilers, but he was banned for continually bringing it back up before he talked to DLM about it. If that is the reason, then he should be banned.

 

Fine. I still disagree with the thread being closed, and if the banning is longer than a quick spanking (like a day or two), I'd think it was an overreaction.

 

I think he should be brought back immediatly.

 

The ban is a permanent IP ban. Which is a HUGE over-reaction, IMO.

Bring Ternian back!

 

"but he was banned for continually bringing it back up before he talked to DLM about it"

Especially if its for that. I could see with the situation, that warranting maybe a 24-48 hour ban, but a permanent IP ban? No, that is over reacting by a lot.

 

so he got permanently banned for bringing a thread that had been let go for months back to the first page?

that is alittle harsh.

 

"The ban is a permanent IP ban. Which is a HUGE over-reaction, IMO."

Well, how exactly do you know that? Did DLM tell you? I don't think that us regular proles can know if a ban if IP, 24-hour-spank, or what. If we can, I don't know how.

--Mr. P

 

That was after his other version got locked, and before he found out why. IP ban could be a bit harsh though. But IP ban means that you can't view the boards I thought, and he got someone to reply to me the other night.

 

His other name cant get in the boards anymore, usually means IP ban.

 

But that could be because his socks were banned. As I said, I thought that IP ban meant that you couldn't even see the boards. ?

 

Well the thing is, she didn't ban him until what happened in the "Let Ternian Speak" thread. By then she had already locked the original Episode II Report thread and so if he was wrong in bringing it up then she should have banned him then. What happened was, someone started the "Let Ternian Speak" thread and there was discussion over how maybe an alternate format could be made where perhaps others in the forum would be less objective about. Of course during that thread there was a little hub bub over Ternian's profile and signature and Ternian just defended himself and tried to defend his reasons for wanting to keep the Episode II Report thread alive, which I'm assuming he's entitled to do. Then Ms. Mara comes in and, at least from what I could see, blasted hist character, but I'm not sure what for because he hadn't actually started talking about spoilers again, but rather was just trying to defend his position. As can be expected, after Ms. Mara hammered him pretty badly he tried to defend himself once again and then was banned. So, if you say he was banned for bringing the thread back up, I don't buy that because he wasn't banned until a few days later. If you say he should be banned for defending himself, I don't buy that either. In all honestly, I don't know how many reasons are left in support of his banning.

 

He CANT see the boards.

 

Okay, that settles it then. I didn't know. I thought that he could considering you posted for him.

 

Mentos:

"I don?t care whether his signature is a spoiler or not -- I DON?T KNOW. That?s the point, a ns person such as myself can only assume that the quote in his signature is an actual quote from Episode II. Thus, I am spoiled. Thus, a forum rule has been broken. Thus, he is a candidate for being banned. "

This logic is all kinds of faulty. You should know that. A non spoiler person doesn't HAVE to assume that it's a spoiler..he could do what you did, and ask. And you got your answer. Basically you're saying he should be banned because your thought process doesn't allow for more than one possibility to enter your head. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case with you, but do you see how your argument looks EXACTLY like that? You're making "I don't know" into "It's a definite certainty." and proceeding from there. That's YOUR bad, not ternian's. That said, you asked, and he answered, and now you know you're not spoiled in the least.

I think Ami's hitting it on the head. You guys (all 3 or 4 of you for the banning) are so afraid you're going to get spoiled that Ternian got banned regardless of whether he actually spoiled you or not. And he didn't, as has been proved time and time again, and even if a post was questionable, he edited and complied with the quickness, apologies all around. And Yodaman's post above outlines the situation pretty nicely, as well. So lets look:

Ternian Posted a Spoiler: Nope
Ternian antagonized other posters: Nope
Ternian was rude and vulgar: Nope
Ternian refused to comply with policy: Nope
Ternian "continually" brought threads up after he was told not to: Nope
Ternian never contacted Dark Lady Mara about the closings: Nope

Yeah, there's not really much to go on..
Fatboy

 

I've now read everything in the two "spoiler" threads and the "Let Ternian speak" thread, and I don't think he did anything that would warrant an IP ban. In the Let him speak thread, all he was doing was defending himself and asking for proof, there is nothing wrong with that. It is his right, especially if he's going to be banned for those things.

 

I'm not concerned about the spoiling bit, I know a bit already because of wagging mouths elsewhere. I'm saying that we don't know why, and offering another alternative reason.

 

Can somebody gimmie the one paragraph version of what happened here??? Preferably from someone who is impartial.

 

Ternian has been doing an EpII non-spoiler update in the NS forum. Some people enjoyed it apprently there were some that didn't and complained to DLM, who, according to her, asked Ternian not to do it anymore. Last week, the ver.2 got closed, Ternian upped the first thread asking why, DLM banned him, (I think). Some people started a thread asking for his reinstatment in NSA Ternian regains the privlege to post. Goes into thread to defend himself, a bit of an argument breaks out between him and DLM over the specifics of his banning and the events that led to it. Ternian is IP banned.


That help you Kyle? You'd have to read the threads linked above for a more complete description.

 

I posted this in the admin forum, but I figure it should be here, as well:

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After having looked through the posts and the threads, I don't think Ternian posted any "spoilers", but there's more to it than just that.

DLM is the 'dedicated' mod for that forum, and it's her call if something is bordering on spoilers. She's the one who is in charge there, so it's her call. If she was worried by Ternian's threads, she had every right to shut them down, and to request that he avoid flirting so closely with the line. All of that is perfectly justifiable, in my mind.

The problem then comes with timing and who knew what, and when. DLM 'warned' Ternian, but did he see it before he repeated the 'offense'? Was Ternian PM'ed? Was he advised that his threads were now bordering on questionable, regardless of the presence of real 'spoilers'?

Here's how I see it: If Ternian *was* advised, and he chose to disagree and ignore that advice, and continued to post against the wishes of DLM, then I can see that perhaps some more action would need to be taken.

However, if Ternian wasn't advised and given ample time to understand the issues with his threads, then banning him may have been a little premature, as he wasn't posting what is generally accepted to be 'spoilers'.

It's a gray issue because it required a judgement call. If Ternian decided his judgement was better than DLM's and continued to post things she didn't approve of, *despite having been warned*, I think a 24 spank is totally justifiable. Why? Because SHE is the mod, not Ternian. He has not been placed in the position to make that call. If he had a problem with her policy, or her objection to the content, he should have discussed it with her, or with the rest of the admins. He should NOT have gone against the forum mod's judgement there, because SHE is the one in the position to make that call.

Ternian is not a troll, therefor I'd like to urge that this ban only be a 24-hour ban, at the most, no matter the situation.

If Ternian was simply a victim of not having seen the warnings in time, it's a simple misunderstanding, and we need to explain that.

However, I'd say that Ternian *did* know something was up, because he saw his other thread locked, and said he was 'waiting for an explanation'. Granted, it could have been closed for any number of reasons, so perhaps he didn't know, but ...

Anyway, I guess I'd just like to know when Ternian was advised of the situation, and if he deliberately 'disobeyed' DLM's request.

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Vertical

 

Ternian is an important and productive member of the boards. I can't say whether what he did deserved a 24 hour ban or not, I don't know the specifics, but I can definitely say that it doesn't deserve a permanent banning. If that's what has happened, then the ban should be lifted. Ternian contributes to the boards immensely. Losing him would be more detrimental to the boards than any supposed wrong he could have or has done.

 

Ternian will not be permanently banned, I can assure you of that.

Vertical

 

Well that's all right then.

 

As far as the "permanent IP ban" is concerned, very little that has happened here is permanent. An IP ban can be lifted just as easily as a username ban. Any thread that is locked can also be unlocked. The part that determines the permanence of any punitive actions is the moderator's decisions and the reaction of the user.

For those of you who have never been banned before, the only difference between a username ban and an IP ban is in how widespread the ban is. In an IP ban, none of your socks can post (and yes, sometimes other people may be affected). You cannot view the boards, check PM's, etc. with either an IP or username ban in place, so not much changes. Circumstances dictate which one to use. For example, a borderline offensive username might have the name banned, but the user might be allowed to return under another name. An IP ban is reserved mainly for users who have a high probability that they will continue to post offensive messages if serious actions are not taken.

 

Hey grendel, can you post this for me in Communications?

From Ternian:

I posted a thread called 'Non-Spoiler Report V2.0.' Dark Lady Mara closed it citing I was posting spoilers.

I Pm'd Dark Lady Mara and asked what spoilers I had posted. In the meantime I posted in the 'Non-Spoiler Report V1.0' which had been left open for about 4 months thinking Dark Lady Mara had made a mistake, since V1.0 was not closed.

Dark Lady Mara pm'd me about 3 days later and said I had posted spoilers and warned me not to post spoilers. I asked her for proof since I knew I hadn't posted spoilers. She then proceeded to close V1.0 warning me not to post spoilers. I PM'd Dark Lady Mara AGAIN asking for proof where I had posted spoilers. I offered to post proof that I hadn't posted spoilers, but was adhering to the rules set out by her.

I post the rules here:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2069617&replies=1

Meanwhile, Ash77 posted a thread titled Let Ternian Speak asking that the threads be reopened as it didn't contain spoilers. Dark Lady Mara then proceeded to accuse me of posting spoilers and 'conniving' to bring the forum down. I sent a letter to the JC-Admins asking for help since I believed I was being singled out simply because I also post in PSA and wasn't happy with the fact that she had labeled me 'conniving.'

In, trying to defend myself and asking her to post proof in the cases she thought I was posting spoilers, I was banned - not because I posted another spoiler, but because I defended myself against her character attack. Dark Lady Mara and other concerned members (Mace Windy, Mr.P) have yet to post any proof that I posted a spoiler.

I was asked to follow the rules of that forum. As of this statement, I continue to ask: "What Spoilers Have I Posted?" and have continued to be met with 'you posted spoilers.' I don't believe it is fair that I am banned for following the rules set out by Dark Lady Mara herself. I continue to offer sources and reasons for my comments to anyone who requires them. I don't think it was fair that I am labeled as' posting spoilers and refering to them,' simply because I also post in the PSA forum.

Ternian