Lit Numbering the Republics and Empires

Spoilers for the entire Star Wars EU.

I have always disliked the terms Old Republic and New Republic. Sure it makes sense in the limited context of the Galactic Empire, but when we think of the historical picture it does feel like a colloquial term. The New Republic name can work if we mean "new" as in "rookie," "untested," "naive," etc. It is a footnote in millennia spanning history of the GFFA.

So too is Palpatine's Empire. To call it "the Empire" works in the context of the films and books. But for anyone far removed from that era, it would just be that blip in time in between the Old and New Republics.

Then there are all the other Republics and Empires throughout Galactic history to consider. They all have similarly generic names that for a contemporary may make some sense but anyone outside of that era will struggle to tell one Sith Empire apart from another. Vice versa for the different eras of the Galactic Republic.

Enter the French. They similarly have a long line of political successions that can be hard to keep track of. Their solution? Number all the different types and put them in order. Starting with the Ancien Régime (Old Regime) and going to the 5th Republic there is a pretty straightforward arrangement of French history.

Ancien Régime
Valois-Orléans kings 1498–1515
Valois-Angoulême kings 1515–1589
Bourbon kings 1589–1792

Long 19th century
French Revolution 1789–1799
Kingdom of France 1791–1792
First Republic 1792–1804
First Empire 1804–1814
Restoration 1814–1830
July Monarchy 1830–1848
Second Republic 1848–1852
Second Empire 1852–1870
Third Republic 1870–1940
Belle Époque 1871–1914


20th century
Third Republic 1870–1940
Interwar period 1919–1939
Années folles 1920–1929

• Free France 1940–1944
  
• Vichy France 1940–1944

Provisional Republic 1944–1946
Fourth Republic 1946–1958
Fifth Republic 1958–present

There is more French history than this in the Middle Age and Antiquity, but they can be defined by the dynasty and national group rather than the political system. There is a few things to note, like how rulers can get their own individual era, like how Napoleon I and Napoleon III nearly exclusively have the First and Second Empires, respectively. Applying this to Star Wars it can be justified that Palpatine will receive his own Empire. Also, transitions in political systems can happen peacefully and within the same ideology, as evidenced by the Fourth and Fifth Republics. I would encourage everyone to research French history on their own time.

Now for this application I did not put much research into it. I am most familiar with the Empire and New Republic eras, but I trust that my vague understanding of TOR, NJO, and Legacy will be enough to give an outline for them.

For Canon there is so little defined galactic history and my knowledge bank is admittedly lower, so I did not seriously consider structuring them. There is not the same level of depth as Legends and so the need has not arisen to catalogue their eras. My only attempt at this yielded a 1st and 2nd Republic and maybe a 1st and 2nd Empire (An ancient Sith polity and Palpatine). It is simpler to just call them Old and New, Sith and Galactic, respectively.

To start with would be the earliest polities. These include the Rakatan Empire, the Killiks, etc. They are equatable to France's ancient history, nominally defined by their tribe rather than their ideology.

Succeeding them in 25,000 BBY is what has traditionally been called the Old Republic. This name is better served as an all-encompassing description of this 25,000 years of history. I prefer the term "Core Republic" since this republic originally centered on the Core region and gradually became the Galactic Republic. Much of what we know about the Core Republic comes from exposition and sourcebooks, so there is not much of a need to stratify it. Dawn of the Jedi is the only narrative set in this time, from what I recall. This period is equivalent to France's medieval era.

The transition to a Galactic Republic happens when the Sith Empire under Naga Sadow wars with the Core Republic. This coincides with the discovery of Sith space and so marks the turn from a regional polity into a truly galaxy spanning one as exploration reveals the full expanse of the stars. This is the 1st Republic and is featured almost exclusively in TOTJ. It spans from the war with Naga Sadow to the technological enlightenment of KOTOR. Alternatively it could be labeled the 1st Galactic Republic.

Because much of the Sith's history is unknown, Naga Sadow oversees the end of the 1st Empire. Exar Kun will likewise oversee the 2nd Empire. These are equivalent to 1st and 2nd Sith Empires.

With KOTOR, technology is essentially at the level of the Prequel trilogy. This implies an Technological Revolution of immense proportions, as TOTJ looks straight medieval compared to KOTOR. Coming with this are all the accompanying social and political changes. Thus, KOTOR implies a peaceful transition from the 1st Republic to the 2nd Republic.

Not so with the Empire. First, from my recollection is the Revan-Malak polity. Then follows a distinctive Triumvirate polity. By TOR is a further Valkorion polity. Thus, the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Empires.

It isn't until the time of Darth Bane that we are given another distinctive Republic, thus the 3rd Republic. Similarly, the Sith polity bears little resemblance to either of the previous incarnations and is the 6th Empire. Both of these entities are crushed by the end of their conflict but only the Republic reforms into the 4th Republic.

Palpatine is made all the more distinctive by existing in an era with no Republic. There is the Alliance to Restore the Republic, which should get a similar footnote as the Free French as the New Republic is their successor organization. This makes Palpatine the founder of the 7th Sith Empire and 1st Galactic Empire with his rule of Coruscant and the galaxy. The New Republic is then the 5th Republic.

Following Palpatine's death is the complicated series of events that dominate the Bantam era of publishing. Pestage, Isard, and the Ruling Council have the most legitimacy as Palpatine's successors with their control of Coruscant and their positions in Palpatine's government. With the loss of Coruscant comes the end of the 7th Empire. It would be succeeded by the brief 8th Empire or Dark Empire led by Palpatine's Clones. This is distinct from the 7th by its rule from Byss and the differing political organization of blatant Dark Side rule. Its control of Coruscant and significant portions of the Galaxy asserts it as an Empire and not a transitory era. There is some argument that Thrawn binds the 7th and 8th Empire into one polity, however his failure to take Coruscant and the fact that he never asserted political leadership does make his singular year of campaigning a transitory era.

Upon the death of the last Palpatine clone on Onderon, there are only a few peculiar attempts imperial rule until the NJO. These include the Imperial Remnant and the Second Imperium. Because the legitimacy of the 7th and 8th Empires are lost with Palpatine's death and Coruscant's loss, the Imperial Remnant only became an officially recognized polity with the Pellaeon-Gavrisom treaty of 19 ABY. Thus, that is the year it is later recognized as establishing the 9th Empire. The origins would be seen as falling more in the Thrawn Campaign rather than the Dark Empire for this polity.

One other peculiarity would be the 2nd Imperium. Claiming succesion the 1st Galactic Imperium, it would neither boast the territory nor the capital to wholly claim this. However, as a Dark Side polity it could claim succession to the Sith Empires as the 10th Empire. It also formed under the belief that Palpatine had returned again, giving it some legitimacy as a successor to the 7th and 8th Empires.

Following this is the Yuuzhan Vong War. It is tempting to label the YZ as a further Empire, however their ideology is so alien to that of the previous Sith and Galactic Empires, with the 9th Empire amongst their enemies, that is not fit to lump them in with that succession. Rather, the YZ are in line with the polities of Antiquity, such as the Rakatan Empire.

One consequence of this war was the dissolution of the 5th Republic with the loss of Coruscant. The subsequent Galactic Federation of Free Alliances would succeed as the 6th Republic with the conclusion of the war.

I am not too sure on what follows NJO, so I will jump to Legacy. Here we have the 9th Empire, the Imperial Remnant, truly come into power under Darth Krayt. Coruscant is taken and a near totality of the Galaxy recognizes its sovereignty. Thus it is justified as being the 9th Sith Empire and the 2nd Galactic Empire. The Galactic Federation survives as a rebel faction. It gives rise to the 7th Republic with the post-Legacy-organization-which-name-escapes-me. I haven't read Legacy vol. 2, so I have no idea what becomes of it.

Of course, there is some holes in my knowledge, especially around the NJO and TOR eras. And I'm sure there are arguments to be made to disregard the 2nd Imperium or combine Republics and a hundred other little nuances. But this is what I know from the EU and probably will until I get around to reading everything.

Anyways, that's my explanation. Here's the chart.

 

I like to keep it a bit simpler, as well as not associate the Galactic Empire as a Sith Empire, so its more like...

First Galactic Republic (Old Republic)
First Galactic Empire (From Palpatine to Marasiah Fel and onwards)
Second Galactic Republic (New Republic to Galactic Alliance Remnant)

First Sith Empire (From Adas to Vitiate to Vowrawn (currently) up to its final defeat)
Second Sith Empire (Darth Revan/Malak)
Third Sith Empire (Darth Ruin to Kaan)
Fourth Sith Empire (Nihl/Talon Sith Remnants post-Legacy)

 

@GrandAdmiralJello

 

In real life France's Republics have differed from one another structurally in quite dramatic fashion. The 2nd and 5th French Republics were and are semi-Presidential respectively, whereas the 3rd and 4th were Parliamentary. The 1st French Republic was a directorial republic for much of its history.

By contrast the Galactic Republic/s appear, to me at least, to have been consistently parliamentary.

At least, on paper.

We know from the Clone Wars cartoon that the Republic of the Clone Wars era saw itself as a distinct entity apart from the Republic that fought the Sith and the Mandalorians. Pre Vizsla refers to the Fall of the "Old Republic" in the Mandalore Plot. And Saesee Tiin refers to battles of the "Old Republic" in the episode Citadel Rescue.

So there is an in universe distinction between the pre-Ruusan Republic and the Clone Wars era Republic. They are considered separate governments in-universe.

Which means, in universe there were at least three republics: The "Old Republic" of the Kotor era, the Clone Wars era Republic (which retroactively was lumped together with the first republic following the establishment of the Galactic Empire), and the New Republic established by the Rebel Alliance.

I personally like to split Republic history as follows:

The First Galactic Republic: 25,053-11,987 BBY- There is little indication that there were any serious upheavals in how the Republic of this era was governed. Yes, there were the Alsakan Conflicts and the War with the Tionese, but for the most part the Republic seems to have operated uninterrupted until 11,987 BBY.

The Second Galactic Republic: 11,987-10,966 BBY- I differentiate this era from the previous period of Republic history because it is during this period that the Republic becomes a de facto theocracy. A conspiracy of religious fundamentalists conspires to impeach the sitting Chancellor and replaces him with Contispex I. Constispex upends the traditional organization of the government by instituting the at times hereditary (and at times ideologically sanctioned succession) leadership of the Contispex Dynasty, which waged war against the Hutts and a variety of alien species.

The Third Galactic Republic: 10,966-1,400 BBY- The Pius Dea Cult is overthrown, The Jedi temporarily take control of the government, and presumably stand down from power shortly thereafter. This is the Republic most fans of the KOTOR era are likely familiar with. Some might be tempted to make more Republics out of this this era, but there were no decapitation strikes, coups, or cataclysms that seemed to radically alter the structure of the Republic in this time period.

Yes, the Republic of this era waxed and waned considerably, from undisputed hegemony to rival superpower of various Sith Empires to second string client state of the Eternal Empire, to sick man of the galaxy during the first half of the New Sith Wars. But I like to think of it as being the same entity from start to finish.

The Fourth Galactic Republic: 1,400-1000 BBY- A de facto government of national salvation appointed for the duration of the emergency. The Jedi during this period have exclusive control over the Chancellorship and the military. The Republic's governance of its territories devolves to the point where, in the last century of the New Sith Wars, Jedi Lords become the de facto kings and rulers of planets and entire sectors.

The Fifth Galactic Republic: 1,000-19 BBY- The first non-Jedi Chancellor in four centuries, Tarsus Valorum, is elected following the defeat of the Sith. The state of emergency ended, the Jedi voluntarily renounce their position of authority. A massive restructuring of the government and the Jedi, the Russan Reformations, is enacted. An era of peace descends on the galaxy. However, the demilitarized and decentralized Fifth Republic gradually finds itself the victim of its own success. Unable to counter political corruption and economic mismanagement, the Fifth Republic descends into civil war, and is abolished by its last Chancellor, Palpatine, who declares himself Emperor of the First Galactic Empire.

The Sixth Galactic Republic: The Republic formed by Mon Mothma and the Alliance to Restore the Republic.

 

I don't see a chart, just an image fail.

 

Kyp did, once.


"The Vong obliterate whole worlds, and yes, I know I did that once, but I'm not crazy enough to think it was right. The Vong think it's a holy obligation. Maybe Master Skywalker is right to urge a passive role. Maybe that's what the Force really asks of us. But I don't believe it. Luke Skywalker risked everything in his war, the war against the Empire. Everything, including the peril of turning to the dark side as his father did. That was his war, Jaina. That was his war. This one is ours. Luke wants to protect us from ourselves. I say we're all grown up. The old Jedi order died with the Old Republic. Then there was Luke, and only Luke, and a lot of fumbling to re-create the Jedi from what little he knew of them. He did the best he could, and he made mistakes. I was one of them. His generation of Jedi was put together like a rickety space scow, but from it something new has emerged. It's not the old Jedi order, nor should it be."

His eyes burned across the space between them like quasars. "We, Jaina, are the new Jedi order. And this is our war."

 

Well a little more realistic than 25,000 years. But 6,000 years is still stretching it. That would be like the Ancient Egyptians still ruling the world.


Edit ten minutes later.......scratch that. It would be like the Empires prior to the Egyptians still ruling. The first Egyptian Dynasty didn't come around until a little over 5,000 years ago. I know some don't care about that kind of stuff in fictional universes but for me it does irritate me a bit. And in a universe where people were freely able to travel throughout the entire galaxy I think governments would be even shorter lived than they are here on Earth

 

Wouldn't First Sith Empire = 6900 BBY to (approximately) 5000 BBY make more sense?

Think the Old Republic going Carthage on them, ended the first iteration definitely.

The following Sith Empires can't honestly be considered to be the same as the first imho.

Gesendet von meinem TA-1053 mit Tapatalk

 

this only supports Jello's point. Note the capitalization. It's just an adjective. It's not a title. Never is.

the good old days, when the Jedi didn't need a logo...

 

Technically speaking in the High Republic material the people of that time say 'We are all the Republic' High Republic has only been used by the characters of the movie era when referencing the past time period.

 

As per OneCanon and Timelines book, it must have ended before 20000BBY when another one was founded
So more like 25000 - 20000 for the first!

 

what conflicts do we have left undated so far?