PT Obi-Wan doesn't beat Darth Maul. Sidious sacrifices Maul

Am I late to the party in figuring this out? I am in the middle of watching all the Star Wars movies to try to make more sense of the sequel trilogy. So when I finished with the prequel trilogy, something bothered me that I hadn't noticed before. Why is it that in Episode III Obi-Wan has the high ground and Anakin gets cut to pieces but in Episode I Darth Maul has the high ground and Obi-Wan is untouched and wins. What happened?
Obi-Wan is a padawan he would have to have all his concentration on dead lifting his body with force and calling Quigon's light saber to him, while at the same time pinning Darth Maul's hands with the force. It seems like a lot for a padawan and why didn't he teach this to Anakin?
I went back and watched the scene again. Darth Maul is a highly trained Sith assassin, who has just killed a Jedi Master and also had the upper hand on his padawan. There is ample time for Maul to cut Obi-Wan down, but he doesn't. If you watch Maul's arms from just before Obi-Wan flies up and over him, he turns towards Obi-Wan but his arms do not move.
My theory is that Sidious held Maul arms with the force so that Obi-Wan would could kill Maul and the Sith would be discovered. I discuss Sidious's reasons for this in my post: Anakin the beginning and of the grand plan. Please read for more info.
So am I late in figuring this out? What other reasons do you have that Obi-Wan won not having the high ground and Anakin lost?

 

Sidious had nothing to do with it. In both cases, Obi-Wan's opponent was overconfident.
Maul thought he'd already won and before he made the jump, Obi-Wan made sure to distract his mind and hide his own intentions (There's a little moment there where he looks at Maul with a sort of "You *******" expression). This is why Maul forgot all about Qui-Gon's lightsaber. He just thought Obi-Wan was jumping to his doom in a last act of defiance.
In all likelihood, Maul thought he'd get to play with his prey a bit more before killing him. He was like a cat waiting for a cornered mouse to run out of its hole.

If you want to draw a parallell to the ST, look no further than the death of Snoke, where Kylo pulled a somewhat similar trick.

 

I respectfully disagree with your last statement about Darth Maul being like a cat waiting for cornered mouse to come out its hole. In fact if this statement is true you have just proved my point. If Darth Maul is cat waiting for a mouse to pounce then he should have killed Obi-Wan while he was floating up or over him, that was his chance to pounce. But Obi-Wan even lands and Darth still hasn't "pounced". So Maul didn't kill Obi-Wan because he was waiting to see what Obi-Wan was going to do? If he wanted to play with Obi-Wan why didn't he just cut off his legs or his arms? Even after Obi-Wan retrieves Quigon's light saber Darth Maul makes no move to defend himself. Also he is all business and his business is killing Jedi, there is nothing in Maul's character arc where he likes to play with his opponents.
I don't think your parallel to Snoke and Kylo is similar. First off Kylo Ren is Sith, second he is not using the force to propel himself into the air or call a light saber to himself. Kylo Ren does exactly what Snoke reads in his mind, he just does it with two light sabers, and not just one.
These two situations are not the same, and it does not explain why Obi-Wan beats Anakin and Darth Maul loses.

Sidious does have something to do with this as he needs the Sith to be discovered to compell the Jedi to train Anakin. He needs this because he has just become Supreme Chancellor and doesn't have time to train Anakin himself. Sidious believes there is little difference between the Sith and the Jedi and he will remain close to Anakin twisting the Jedi training where it needs it.

 

I said nothing about pouncing. That's all you.

 

Ok waiting for a cornered mouse run out of its hole, the mouse runs out of the hole and the cat is just standing there staring at it and then let's the mouse cut its throat.
You don't have to take my word for it, in the final season of Clone Wars, Maul figures out he was just a tool for his master so what did that tool do, killed Quigon and revealed the Sith. Why was this important? Why did the council change from not training Anakin to training him, because they couldn't risk the Sith training him, they didn't know it was Palpatine.

 

Sorry this doesn't explain why Maul didn't cut him down or even try to defend himself when Obi-Wan gets Quigon's light saber. Go back and watch the scene. He is supposed to sense these things in the force. Let's just say Maul forgets about Qui-Gon's lightsaber, the only thing then he can expect Obi-Wan to do is run away which he doesn't want. The surprise look on Maul's face is that he couldn't react to kill Obi-Wan, his surprise is that he cannot move his arms to kill Obi-Wan.
Sidious wants to get rid of Maul because he has already moved on to the next phase of his plan which is creating the Grand Army and planning out both sides of the war. Dooku is already waiting in the wings to replace Maul. Please review my post Anakin the beginning and the end of Grand Plan

 

You've obviously decided to stick with your headcanon - at least for the time being - and there's really no way to prove you wrong.

I personally don't buy it, though. It makes zero sense to me that Sidious would go through the trouble of training Maul, all the way from childhood into adulthood, to be a devoted and powerful Sith Lord, just to have him killed right after he's made his first move against the Jedi.
It makes far more sense that he would keep him around as his second-in-command.
He doesn't need Dooku to be a Sith, he just needs him to be the leader of the Separatists. The only reason why he makes Dooku his apprentice is that he needs a trusted companion to fill the void left by Maul.
Furthermore, Maul doesn't need to die for the Jedi to confirm that he is a Sith. If him killing two Jedi isn't proof enough, I'm sure he can think of some other way to make it known that the Sith are back.

Maul failed because he was overconfident and thought that Obi-Wan could neither win nor escape, even if he was allowed to jump out of the pit.
It's as simple as that.

From my point of view, of course.

 

I'd buy this, at least as far as Maul being sacrificed. I don't think quite in the way described in the original post, though. Maul was a great poster-child for the Sith being revealed. That was his purpose. He has no purpose beyond Ep. I, and it completely shows. I liked the character, too. Very much. But he should have been left in two at the bottom of that shaft. I can't think of a more utterly implausible 'survival' than what happened to him.

 

I think the reason it's impossible to muse about things like this is because TPM gives us little to go off of as far as Maul and Sidious's relationship is concerned. A quick scene following Maul's defeat on Tatooine could have given us some insight and clarified Sidious's motivation for the rest of the movie.

---------

INTERIOR: SITH INFILTRATOR-ENTRY CABIN

A red light is flashing on the center holoprojector. Mauls speeder is heard nearing from the distance. The speeder comes to a stop outside the boarding ramp. Maul enters the ship. Maul sees the blinking light, but does not want to answer it. It answers on its own and a hologram of a dark lord appears.

SIDIOUS: How long did you think you could ignore me?

Maul speeds to the hologram and drops to his knees.

MAUL: I am sorry. I have failed you.

SIDIOUS: The plan was to wait for the Chancellor of the Republic to make a decision and then sabotage his plans to make him look ineffective. I told you to destroy the Jedi upon their arrival and then proceed with the invasion unbeknownst to the Republic. Only once we secured Naboo would we inform the Republic capital and watch them lose their collective minds. Instead you allowed the Jedi to escape.

MAUL: (defeated) Yes, my lord.

SIDIOUS: I can use that to my advantage.

Maul turns his gaze upward with a bit of relief in his eyes.

SIDIOUS: What I can’t use is a Jedi corpse in the middle of the desert.

The hologram makes a clenched fist. Maul is lifted into the air and begins to choke.

SIDIOUS: Once the Jedi and the Naboo princess reach Coruscant I will be able to manipulate things to our benefit, but I need time to come up with a plan. This is why it is important that you communicate with me so I don’t have to find out about these problems of yours through secondary channels. I do not have time for you to lick your wounds and come up with excuses of which I am sure you have many.

The hologram opens its hand. Maul drops to the floor, gasping.

SIDIOUS: Do not fail me again

The dark lord points at Maul before the hologram flickers out. Maul looks to where the hologram was as he rubs his neck.

---------

Followed by another quick scene on Naboo, just after Padme returns.

---------

INTERIOR: PALACE-THRONE ROOM-DAY

Maul is kneeling before a hologram of his Sith master.

SIDIOUS: There is an aggressiveness to the Naboo Princess that you may find surprising, my apprentice.

MAUL: You did not inform me that she had left the capital. We found her ship in the swamps.

SIDIOUS: Now you finally understand my frustrations with not being informed about such details. Consider this a test, Maul, to see if you are truly prepared to lead this offensive into the Republic.

---------

Just saying, little character moments go a long way.

 

Not sure why don't think I can't change my mind, I am just defending my new position, which there is no way to prove the theories, but thank you for at least proposing some alternatives. Up until a few weeks ago I was under the assumption that Obi-Wan won fair and square. Also I was trying to get people to read my post about Anakin the beginning and the end of the grand plan.
But let me ask you, what makes you think Sidious wasted Darth Maul training? Could it be that Darth Maul's sole purpose in Sidious's plan was to kill Quigon Jin, who is widely believed to be the only Jedi to be able to keep Anakin from turning to the dark side. I think his other purpose was to reveal the Sith to the Jedi, so that they will train Anakin. Looking at what happened in Episode I Quigon being attacked by Maul on Tatooine was not enough to convince the Jedi the Sith were back, I am not sure anything short of finding half of Darth Maul would have convinced them the Sith are back (not sure what the found, maybe Darth Maul's ID said Sith Lord on it).
Also I will respectfully disagree that they only need Dooku to be the leader of the Separatist, because of just one thing: He needed Dooku to delete Kamino from the Jedi Archives, something Maul could not do, and I think it was something that required a little more trust than just being the Separatist leader.
Finally I have a question for you, do you have a theory as to how Darth Maul's death set back Sidious's plan? I would be interested in hearing what you think.
It is possible that Maul lost because of arrogance, but I stopped thinking so since he survived and Sidious doesn't seem to put any effort into finding him and Maul's 'death' seems to conveniently help Sidious's plan.

 

Helpful to look at the novelization for added color in times like this.

The TPM novel says outright that Maul's slow pacing was about him "savoring the moment," and Kenobi's move caught him "before he could act to save himself" rather than any intervention from Palpatine.

This is confirmed in End Game, a short story published in recent editions of the TPM novel that is specifically from Maul's POV. There he explains that he "had sabotaged himself by drawing out his moment of victory."

But interestingly enough in End Game, @Love SW2012, Maul does think about treachery being the way of the Sith right as Kenobi slices him:

So you may have been onto something re: Palps' intentions, even if he clearly didn't get telekinetically involved.

(Worth noting that the Plagueis novel goes into why Maul was sent to Naboo specifically to kill Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and that Palps has a surge of sadness as Maul "dies," though that's Legends now)

 

OK what version are you watching? I just watched a version on the internet like 10 times, Maul makes a face like he sees that Obi-Wan is going to try something. Obi-Wan flies up and grabs and ignites Quigon's lightsaber in mid air, while Maul is watching the the entire time, and his lightsaber arm doesn't move, doesn't move to block, Obi-Wan lands lightsaber and Maul's lightsaber arm doesn't move, Obi-Wan goes to cut him in half, Maul's lightsaber still does not move. What we disagree on is that even though Obi-Wan caught and ignites the lightsaber in mid jump, Maul is so surprised by Obi-Wan's move that he doesn't defend himself. My theory is that Maul's surprised look is because he is still just standing there not making any move to strike Obi-Wan or defend himself.
Would someone else verify if Maul's moves his lightsaber to either defend himself or not. I might be seeing things.
Also I don't read the novels of the movies because I don't want to like the books better than the movies. I had to make an exception with the Rise of Skywalker.

 

I didn't make up this up to promote my post other post. This is part of that post that I didn't want to re-write again in this post so if you want to see why I think Sidious did it and how it fits into his plan you can review that post. Is it Ok to reference another post to prevent from having to type it twice?

 

That's not what I meant to say, at all. I wrote "at least for the time being" to indicate the opposite, actually

No, because even if that was true, there's no way Sidious would know that two decades before these events. He plans ahead and is extremely skilled at adapting his plans to new circumstances, but he's not omniscient.
If he was, he would've had Anakin at his side long before the Jedi ever had the chance of running into him.

...and for that, he has to be a Sith Lord? Honestly, I think putting him in charge of the Separatist movement is in and of itself a sign of trust.
I also think, however, that you're right about Dooku waiting in the wings. Sidious likely saw him as a suitable replacement for Maul in the event that Maul was lost, not because he planned on getting rid of him - and Dooku likely hoped that Maul would be lost.

I've never given that much thought, I'm afraid. I do think Sidious preferred to keep his proverbial eggs in different baskets, though; that he felt safer having his loyal apprentice and the Separatist leader be different people, because he could more easily manipulate them to his own advantage by, for instance, pitting them against each other if need be.

Since things turned out so well even without that advantage, however, he saw no reason to take Maul back when he resurfaced (especially since he was so obviously plotting against Sidious).
He did have "other uses" for him, though...

 

They just spent 2 minutes fighting in an open space where they were all making long jumps up and down to platforms so Maul is so surprised by Obi-Wan lifting himself over Maul, that even though Maul is watching Obi-Wan the whole time. So Obi-Wan flies up in front of Maul, collects Quigon's lightsaber and ignites in the air before he lands, then he lands and swings at Maul and Maul is so surprised so impressed by the move that he doesn't even move his lightsaber into a defensive position. Doesn't try to attack Obi-Wan at all. Its like Maul is watching it on TV and is no longer in the fight. My point about his lightsaber not moving isn't not necessarily that Sidious is holding it with kinetic force, its that Maul had plenty of time identify Obi-Wan's threat and he has absolutely no even defensive reaction to Obi-Wan's move. So either Maul force danger sense failed him big time or Sidious intervenes and prevented Maul from even defending himself, at least that's my theory.

 

I think his danger sense failed him because Obi-Wan purposely cloaked his intentions.

 

I think I have figured out how all these theories fit together and are still in line with the movie novel. Just before Obi-Wan makes his move Maul gets this weird look on his face, what if this is the moment that Sidious clouds Maul's mind, so that even as he is watching Obi-Wan jump up over him with an ignited lightsaber and he is standing there watching, then when Obi-Wan lands and just before he is about to strike Maul down, Sidious releases Maul's mind so Maul is then surprised to see Obi-Wan standing in front of him just before Maul is cut in half. This would make sense for Maul's final thoughts being about Sith treachery. It also doesn't goes against Maul waiting to finish Obi-Wan off as could just be referring to the time he spent standing above Obi-Wan lashing his lightsaber on the ground while Obi-Wan was hanging down there. He should have just thrown his lightsaber down on Obi-Wan's face and been done with it. Instead he was standing over Obi-Wan waving his lightsaber around.
Thanks to everyone who commented. It helped me refine things

 

When I said Maul's arms didn't move, I never said they were pinned by the force that was a conclusion every one jumped to. I just meant that Maul should have had plenty of time to be surprised and still at least bring up his guard before Obi-Wan cut him in half.
They did sort of reveal themselves on Tatooine, but it wasn't enough to get the council to get agree to train Anakin. That is why when Mace Windu says there is no doubt the attacker was Sith, they change their minds and agree to train Anakin.
I don't think Sidious is all powerful but he does like to plan, and having Maul defeated by Obi-Wan and concrete proof the Sith are back, and getting Anakin to be trained were all part of his plan, and I just think he do what ever was necessary to bring about that plan. I was looking at it from Sidious's point of view and in the context of his plan to take over the Galaxy.