Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 6 (Series Finale!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I agree.

Though maybe. not a long, drawn out diatribe.

But my problem is that Obi-Wan COULD have done that. He had the opportunity to try to reason with him further or to kill him. I understand that the former might look silly and the latter obviously can’t happen, which is why I agree that there needed to be something to disrupt the duel. Obi-Wan choosing to put in less effort than he did in ROTS, and basically just summarizing things he already said in ROTS then walking away really was a crappy way to cap off what was otherwise the best fight, IMO.

I definitely think Padme should have been mentioned. The fact that Vader hasn’t had to deal with her in any way since being in the suit, I feel is a missed opportunity. I feel like she should have been mentioned, enough to give Vader pause or perhaps even weaken his will to fight enough that he collapses (as he does anyway). But then Obi-Wan senses Luke is in danger and leaves.

Then when it cuts to Vader talking to Palpatine, Palpatine’s line that Vader is weak due to sentiment might actually have some foreshadowing. As opposed to Vader being “bwah ha ha” evil the whole time only for Palpatine to say Vader still feels sentiment toward Obi-Wan?


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They save the Padme moment for when Kenobi is speaking to her daughter later because the development of this series for Kenobi was that he is finally becoming more and more free of the sense of guilt inside for what happened to Anakin in the events of ROTS.

He was traumatized by the belief he’d killed a boy he’d raised, only to then hear from that same man’s dying wife that she believed there was still good in him. That probably messed him up further inside. He never told her he believed he’d died and in this timeline it is probably too risky for him to reveal that he had time with her at all before she died. The focus here is on Kenobi and his own issues and getting him to the point in ANH where he truly believes the following:

“A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.”

And later in ROTJ:

“Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and "became" the Sith Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So, what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.”

And
LUKE: There is still good in him.

KENOBI: He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

This show is Kenobi’s and this journey was about moving him from the uncertainty and anxieties he had from the uncertainties of the events of ROTS and moving him toward a mindset that would say these things to the son of someone he now only refers to as “Darth” and who reacts strongly when the son says the same thing the dying wife said.

That’s what that scene is all about. It isn’t about Kenobi gaining hope in Anakin. It’s about him beginning the process to healing that his friend may very well have been gone long before Mustafar and coming to accept that belief enough to say what he says to that man’s son years later.

 

I don’t know that anybody really thought he wasn’t already there as of ROTS

Obi-Wan evolved far from where he was at the beginning of OWK, but not much from where he was in ROTS

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I disagree. Kenobi strongly blamed himself for failing him and also put a lot of blame on Palpatine on Mustafar. However, in the OT he seems to primarily blame the presence of Vader more directly. He also had no reason to assume he lived and the last words of a woman he respected is that there is still good in him. Did he wonder if there still was? How would all of this weigh on him while in isolation? That’s what this show explores. I can imagine how all of that would play on him before seeing him as more machine than man now again in this series and accepting that it was Vader himself who betrayed and murdered his friend.

 

The final duel was perfect. And what made it totally perfect was Obi-Wan’s decision, once again, to leave Anakin/ Vader alive. An exterior event disrupting the fight would’ve been a narrative, character and thematic cop out. Obi-Wan chooses mercy for his longtime friend. That feels right on every level.

 

Not IMO, when he then tells his son years later that he must be willing to kill Vader or Palpatine wins.

Obi-Wan walked away once under the belief Anakin was dead. His apprentice became a monster. Obi-Wan then confirms Anakin is “dead” and he still walks away again. Then years later is emphasizing the importance of killing Vader.

He can be excused for ROTS, but then with OWK, he looks like a fool to me in hindsight when that clearly wasn’t the intent. I’m supposed to see him as some enlightened man.




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Personally, I find the scene to be too similar to the one of ROTS, with OW leaving an incapacitated Anakin while he screams at him.

 

Obi-Wan is selling him on the idea that Anakin is already dead.

Yoda and Obi-Wan use phrases like “Vader betrayed and murdered your father,” “forever will the Dark Side dominate your destiny, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice “ and “the good man that was your father was destroyed.”

He doesn’t need to say “you must kill Vader,” but it’s implied. Redemption is never treated as an option. They have made every effort to convince Luke that Vader cannot be redeemed (not just that is was unlikely).

When Luke says he’s sensed the good in Vader. Obi-Wan immediately downplays Vader’s humanity and emphasizes the evil.

Yoda says it’s unfortunate and unexpected that Vader would even tell Luke about their relationship.

And as for willingness to kill Vader. Obi-Wan was willing to in ROTS and indeed believed he had. In OWK he is unable to out of mercy, and yet he’s emphasizing that Vader has no humanity to Luke.

Obi-Wan was able to defeat Vader. But unwilling to kill him. But then he puts that expectation on Luke, which is pretty messed up. It’s different if Obi-Wan fails to kill him (as on Mustafar) and never gets another opportunity.


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The scene was dumb. To Obi-Wan, "his friend was truly dead." He said so himself. And he just left him to his own evil. All the people Vader killed in the next 10 years are on Obi-Wan Kenobi. It was entirely, 100% his fault. He did not do anything, although it was absolutely in his power to do something for the Galaxy. He could have apprehended him, deliver him to the rebels, imprison him, do anything. But he didn't. The scene is so utterly nonsensical and pointless, not only it is 100% identical in its narrative purpose to Revenge of the Sith scene, but it also took the scene from Rebels just for the sake of visual reference but without any deeper thought to it. Obi-Wan and Vader should have never fought again precisely for this reason. There is no way in hell Obi-Wan could have ever turned Anakin back or cause him to doubt himself even for a moment. He hated the man, despised him on the deepest level. If there was anyone Anakin hated more than himself, it was Obi-Wan Kenobi.
What's the point of Luke anyway? Obi-Wan can beat Vader easily. Originally the point was that Luke was the only one strong enough to beat Vader or redeem him. Ahsoka could not beat Vader. He overpowered her. She could not redeem him, and when she found out Anakin was indeed Vader, she did not leave him. She could not bring herself to even attack him anymore, she was just defending herself. Obi-Wan? Strong enough to defeat Vader at any time he wishes, leaves him for no reason, does nothing about it for the next 10 years, because reasons (OT needs to happen). Literally nothing happened that developed further any of the characters that wasn't there in Revenge of the Sith. But at least there Obi-Wan had a believable motivation for leaving Vader and feeling pity for him. Their rematch fundamentally cannot happen, because if Obi-Wan loses, it clashes with ANH where Vader said he was just a learner, if Obi-Wan wins like he did here, then you question Obi-Wan's sanity. Could be somehow justified by Qui-Gon telling Obi-Wan to believe in the prophecy of the Chosen One and trust in the Force, but that did not happen, Qui-Gon was reduced to an MCU-quip cameo, and Obi-Wan believed Luke to be the Chosen One in Rebels (understandably, considering his words in Revenge of the Sith).

 

Qui-Gon was the ending we wanted, but this is the ending we needed:

 

Regarding Reva, "If you're bullied, don't become a bully yourself."

 

Yep.

It's an old lesson from Star Wars going back to the OT days.

 

I'm wondering whether this ending was what Kennedy had in mind when she commented how the early version of the script was "too dark," and that Star Wars should be more "hopeful." Perhaps changing Reva's ending from a villain's death to something more of a redemption (to mirror ROTJ's redemption for Vader) was one of the things that was changed from the original scripts.

 

It's a change I don't mind at all.

We already have enough "doom-and-gloom" stories as it is; we have an over-abundance of "realistic" or "dark" stories and I prefer this instead.

 

KENOBI: Here, let me give you a hand.

REVA: Thanks. I left the last hand I took on the dirt of Mos Eisley.

(Kenobi and Reva both laugh)

OWEN: It’s true. I was there.

REVA: I did tell you that I respected a man who’d defend his family.

OWEN: That you did.

LADY WHO LOST HER HAND IN EP 1: Seriously!? Is this really happening? You cut off my damn hand!

 

This is great! It seems a solid 85 to 90% of viewers here liked the final episode.




We're a long way from The Book of Boba Fett, whatever we all thought of that show (I had my likes and dislikes), but this show is definitely an improvement, I feel.

 

Kenobi is an overall better show (IMO) but shares some of the same problems too. TBOBF has a grand thematic premise, but which doesn’t seem to translate that well to the small screen… primarily I think because of budget restrictions. Kenobi has the same restrictions, but is ultimately more successful at conveying both its scope and central premise. Ewan McGregor is (IMO) a slightly more engaging lead than Tem (Tem being a little too one note in places), and as an actor is given more dramatic opportunities to shine. Where TBOBF had the edge is that it had a less predictable story, and tried to be a bit more creative with the format etc.

 

Well, people often do the same thing twice.

 

Ready. He must be ready. Not willing.

Luke didn't spend a life bonding with Anakin Skywalker. Obi Wan Kenobi did. Not even remotely comparable.
Vader is Luke's biological father, but they don't have the emotional baggage between them that would make it impossible for Luke to kill him.
Oh, and Luke ended up not killing him anyway. But he was ready to kill him. Not willing.

 

I don’t see a difference between “ready,” “willing,” “prepared,” or whatever word you want to use.

Luke, in no uncertain terms, tells Obi-Wan that he can’t kill Vader. And Obi-Wan says that, if that’s the case, then Palpatine wins. Not that maybe Palpatine wins, or that he’s likely to win. Simply that Palpatine wins, if Luke can’t kill Vader.

Then in the throne room, he keeps refusing to fight Vader. He was no ready to kill Vader. He won’t even fight him. He refuses to pick up his weapon, he jumps away from him, and hides under the stairs.

The only moment that he’s ready to kill Vader is when Vader threatens Leia and Luke is on the verge of falling to the Dark Side. Luke throws away his lightsaber and is ready to die rather than to kill Vader.

Obi-Wan is portrayed in the OT as being wrong. I don’t understand the semantics and hairs being split to try and justify what he tells Luke. It’s a coming of age story. Luke has left the farm and he’s on his own, surrounded by figures telling him what his destiny is and he chooses his own destiny.

Obi-Wan defeated Vader and walked away. Luke refused to leave or give up on Vader. Obi-Wan beat him, then wrote him off as “dead” and left. If he was too attached to kill him, then that’s a fault on him as a Jedi (in the eyes of the Jedi based on their views of attachment), and he has no business telling Luke that he needs to be “ready” to kill his father. OWK takes a failure of Obi-Wan and turns it into some self-righteous thing.


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Since when does the "no unhealthy attachments" rule mean that if a Jedi doesn't kill an incapacitated enemy who poses no threat, they break that rule? This is some serious mental gymnastics there.

And this is not a semantics issue. Being ready to kill someone for the greater good of the galaxy, means that you might have to do it even if you're not willing to do it. Obi Wan's advice was solid. And Luke found an even better solution.

 

Willing def. - ready, eager, or prepared to do something.

Ready def. - in a suitable state for an activity, action, or situation; fully prepared.

I don’t see much difference, and at no point did either apply to Luke until he was teetering on the Dark Side.

Obi-Wan was not “ready” to kill Vader. You said he’s telling Luke he must be “ready.” And you made a distinction between the two as being because Obi-Wan was attached to Anakin while Luke was not.

He let his personal feelings “get in the way of the mission.” And then passes that burden to the son. Which is all kinds of messed up.


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You don’t see much difference between words that mean different things?