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Kenobi Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 6 (Series Finale!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Jun 21, 2022.

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Grade the Episode

Poll closed Jul 6, 2022.
  1. 10

    46.6%
  2. 9

    23.7%
  3. 8

    8.7%
  4. 7

    8.2%
  5. 6

    5.9%
  6. 5

    3.7%
  7. 4

    0.9%
  8. 3

    0.5%
  9. 2

    0.5%
  10. 1

    1.4%
  1. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Admin & TV Screaming Service star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Obi Wan probably wishes he actually knew where Saw Gerrera or Quinlon Vis were at this point in his life.
     
  2. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    "Detracts" is a judgement call, but it doesn't contradict anything. Changes some context, challenges assumptions, but doesn't contradict.
    I don't think it is. Here's the exchange:

    Ben: "You must face Darth Vader again".
    Luke: "I can't kill my own father"
    Ben: "Then the Emperor has already won".

    If Ben wanted to say "kill" he would have. He only asks Luke to face him. To me, his second remark was a response to Luke potentially avoiding facing Vader at all, due to his reason that he can't bring himself to kill him. Since any confrontation comes with the potential of one of them being killed. But that's very different to Ben urging him to kill Vader. Even in TESB Yoda mentions "conquering" Vader, but that's quite a vague term.
    You could be right, but it's not my interpretation. He was going to kill him no matter what. He says so to himself or QG before the fight. I don't think it was the Jedi rules that were a factor, but rather he saw the man behind the mask. He felt empathy & also guilt towards Anakin, & so couldn't go through with it. I believe if the mask hadn't been cut open, he would've killed Vader, incapacitated or not, just as he said he would. Bcs when you think about it, how would he kill him otherwise? The only way is to get a single lethal blow with your lightsaber? Then you're good as far as the code is concerned, but if it happens to take two strikes, then you're **** out of luck? If so you actually need to be careful you don't injure a Sith too much in case he falls into the dreaded "incapacitated" category, which brings on an automatic stalemate. I don't think that was the situation here, I think it was more personal regarding his feelings towards Anakin.
     
  3. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    No, they can, because Obi-Wan literally demolished him and put him into submission. Capturing the second most important man in the Empire, who knows all of its secrets, is critical to the Rebellion effort and would have dealt a significant blow to the Empire. At least they could have tried.
    No, those aren't his choices. His choices are either to save the Galaxy, or let him loose to terrorize the Galaxy.
    Surely, Vader won't do anything like this ever again [face_clown]
    [​IMG]
    He could still spare him, but not be a total idiot about it. But alas, he was. Which in fact is why this rematch and this show should not have existed, unless it's Obi-Wan talking to Qui-Gon in his cave and saving the Lars farm from Sand People and Krayt Dragons.
    He knew Bail Organa, who is canonically aware of many other Rebellion cells, and has his own cell (Ahsoka was also a part of it, a few years post-RotS already). And he knew Ice Cube's son, who surely knew where Quinlan Vos was. And they had other Jedi with them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  4. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    that is not correct, Bail and Ahsoka have not formed a Rebel cell yet, and there are not many other Rebel cells in existence yet, and there’s certainly no coordination between the couple that do exist, and they certainly do not have the resources to keep an individual like Vader in custody
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  5. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I believe since I made that post, someone responded with a quote from Lucas where he said that Obi-Wan knew Vader would eventually come after the kids and that it would lead to a confrontation wherein if Vader is not redeemed, then Luke must be willing to kill him in self defense.

    This is reiterated between Luke and Vader where Luke says he won’t turn, Vader says he won’t turn, then Luke says in that event Vader will be forced to kill him and Vader responds “if that os your destiny.”

    So I’ll carry that a little bit further. Obi-Wan has consistently been skeptical of the belief that Vader can be turned, meaning he sees really only two outcomes. Luke is turned or Vader dies. Walking away or avoiding the confrontation is not an option.

    But that’s exactly what Obi-Wan did. Now he’s kicking it down the road to Luke.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    But they have. Ahsoka novel took place one year after Revenge of the Sith, and there Bail recruited her into his Rebel network, where she served as the head of his intelligence unit. Obi-Wan Kenobi show takes place 10 years after Revenge of the Sith. Of course they have formed something by that point. And to think about it, there is absolutely no reason why Bail should not mention this to Obi-Wan, and that Ahsoka is alive, now that Obi-Wan knew Quinlan Vos was alive as were many other Jedi, who are actively fighting back and organizing some sort of resistance with the help of people like Ice Cube's son. Then again, there is also Saw Gerrera, who is quite notorious for his actions against the Empire. Knowing Bail Organa, his connections, and the resources he has, it should be no problem to contact him. And they certainly do have the resources to keep an individual like Vader in custody. He was beaten. He posed no threat to Obi-Wan whatsoever. Chain him up, put him into one of your secret Rebel bases, interrogate him. This is what realistically should have happened if people in this show had any common sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  7. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Yes, if people had common sense then Obi Wan would have chained up Vader with handcuffs, put him in his pajamas, carry him with a tiny spaceship as his co passenger like the old times, chatted with him a little bit about how Luke and Leia are just like their father, taken him to Bail Organa, who then would have holocalled Quinlan Vos and Saw Herrera so that they can come pick up Vader and exchange him for the death star plans or execute him.

    And then the Emperor would have killed all of them, destroyed any thought or idea of a rebel cell, and taken Luke and Leia as his new apprentices, after killing everyone they love.

    What a great idea. I'm glad the people who made that show didn't have common sense
     
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  8. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    just ‘chain him up’

    somehow i don’t think it would be too difficult for Vader to break out of some chains

    I suppose the Andor series will show us some more early Rebel formation, will be interesting to see how far along they are, is Raddus involved yet? do they have the base on Yavin already?
     
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  9. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    None of that would have to be addressed if they had not faced one another for no reason whatsoever. But making Obi-Wan beat the hell out of Vader, become an earthbending Avatar all of the sudden, and then just have him walk away, absolutely knowing what Vader is capable of and what he would do is just too good. And it's not like Obi-Wan dwelt on it, no. He is all happy "Hello there" Obi-Wan in the next scene. That's brilliant writing.
     
  10. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    This has gone beyond boring.
     
  11. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Game Winner star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    How do you imprison a Force user anyway ? Is there a Force suppressant ?
     
  12. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    This episode is great. Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi duel. Palpatine and Qui-Gon cameos. Obi-Wan becoming Ben Kenobi. And dresses like hos ANH look. Goodbye to Leia and telling her about her parents.
     
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  13. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    There was that whole Citadel in TCW, and Mace seems to think it’s entirely possible to apprehend a Sith Lord, and Anakin believes that Dooku should have been taken prisoner. So we can infer that it’s entirely possible. Hondo Ohnaka I believe captured Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin in TCW and Maul was captured by the Republic immediately before the events of ROTS.

    As others have pointed out though, the logistics of doing so when there’s no real institution to hold him make it problematic.
     
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  14. dogprivilege

    dogprivilege Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I feel like you have to do some big backflips to act as though it wasn't kind of absurd that OWK wouldn't have seen the need to kill or capture Vader in that moment.
     
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  15. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    I guess I don't know how he would capture Vader. Like someone said, are you supposed to give him a Force suppressant? I guess we saw Maul captured in Clone Wars, but it's not like Obi-Wan had anything like that on hand.

    He beat the (second) most powerful Force user in the galaxy. He couldn't bring himself to kill his friend, whom he now sees as a pathetic shell of what he once was. Killing him isn't going to save the galaxy, as someone else claimed. Palpatine is the end game; killing Vader doesn't end the war.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  16. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    Just cut off his hands and legs and drag him into the shuttle :)
    They are mechanical anyway. He won't go anywhere.
    Capturing/killing him won't save the Galaxy, but it would definitely ease the suffering, considering what Vader is about to do in the next 10 years. Because it makes sense. You don't just let the second most evil/powerful person in the Galaxy, who is responsible for countless of crimes, get off scot-free. You just can't write yourself to that point, you need something to justify it, something more than "it's the jedi way" or "he felt bad", unless you deliberately try to portray the Jedi as awful as possible.
    We shouldn't be having this conversation, because there is no way Obi-Wan Kenobi should encounter Darth Vader before ANH. Because if he loses, then you question why didn't Vader finish him off (oh, by the way, that happened in Episode 3 of the show, when he just didn't kill him for some reason, didn't put the fire down for some reason, and let him go) and what was the whole "I was but the learner..." line (obviously recontextualized, considering that Vader and Anakin used to be separate characters; but it worked for Vader losing on Mustafar). If OWK wins, then you have this debate. Why didn't he finish him. Why did he just leave him be. He said "Then my friend is truly dead." He accepted that Anakin Skywalker is dead and gone for good. He knows for a fact that Vader is a monster that will kill who knows how many innocent people and spread suffering everywhere he goes. He saw it with his own eyes in the village. No, the show was not concerned with that question. It was just stupid and it should not have happened. Obi-Wan Kenobi is an idiot and it was never acknowledged by the narrative. The same thing as in Revenge of the Sith, but makes no sense.
     
  17. dogprivilege

    dogprivilege Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    In ROTS I can buy that OWK honestly believed Anakin was a goner the way he left him. And I can see why OWK leaving Anakin was a satisfying conclusion to the two's story.

    "How would OWK capture Vader?" - did ya'll watch the show? Vader is dependent on his suit, which is damaged, and the show went to great lengths to make it clear that he was basically taken down and was having trouble even standing up. Like come on lol they could've just cut to Vader tied up in a bunch of chains and it wouldn't have needed an explanation. From OWK's POV, no way you leave this man alive to terrorize the galaxy. Because if he doesn't kill him now, who's gonna stand a chance to stop Vader in the future? It's just common sense. You can still like the fight and also acknowledge this is a major logic gap
     
  18. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    The fight could have still happened in the show they just should of had a better reason to separate them. Maybe Obi is going in for the killing blow on vader and the other inquisitors come down, finally giving them something to do in this show and obi escapes by the skin of his teeth. The whole just walking away doesn't work for me either
     
  19. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Killing Vader after this confrontation would have been completely against Kenobi's character. It would have been another character assassination in the saga, outside of the obvious plot armor that Vader has because of the existence of the OT. The Jedi don't kill preemptively. You are not watching Minority Report, you are watching Star Wars.
    They literally have told us a million times about how the future is always in motion.

    I find the argument that the "Jedi should kill anyone who poses a threat" as a very poor reading of what the Jedi are. Being on the defensive and prepared to kill your opponent if they leave you no choice is a million miles away from killing someone who is incapacitated and not a threat anymore.

    1. Luke and Leia. With the support of the Rebellion. Killing Vader would change nothing about the dominance of the Empire at this point in time.
    2. I can also love the fight and acknowledge that there are exactly zero logic gaps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  20. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    The fight should have happened in his head. The show should have been about him communicating with Qui-Gon (who is a voice), and defeating one inner demon at a time in order to achieve enlightenment. Yeah, that would be a direct ripoff of the Yoda arc from The Clone Wars, but at least it would have made sense. That's how you achieve immortality, that's what Obi-Wan was supposed to learn and what was teased at the end of Revenge of the Sith. If he needs to go off-planet, go dig into the mysteries of the Force in order to achieve the thing that will help you defeat the Sith, which is becoming a Force Ghost. If this was the case, we would have seen something new happening to the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi. But as we have it, nothing happened. He is back to where he was in Revenge of the Sith, but with tons of things that don't make a lick of sense.
     
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  21. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    No then this logically would never make any sense bc if a jedi never gives a killing blow, than an evil dark side user, would constantly use it as I get out of jail free card if it was a 1v1. Obviously it would be different if the Republic was still in charge and they came to arrest vader, there was nobody coming to arrest him that's the difference. It's not like the emperor was going to indict him on war crimes. Obi literally watched vader snap a small child's neck. And unlike Reva, Vader was showing no repentance at all
     
  22. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    This can’t be serious. You think a Jedi goal is to achieve immortality? I believe you’re confusing them with the red lightsaber people.
     
  23. dogprivilege

    dogprivilege Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Killing a Vader, an extremely powerful/dangerous/violent psychopath with the full power of the Empire enforcing his will is outside OWK's moral code, but raising his two young children to eventually murder their own father is?

    Worth noting in this plan there remains no plan for how to deal with the emperor, so we're back at the same place assuming Luke and/or Leia are successful at beating Vader
     
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  24. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Who said that the Jedi cannot give a killing blow? Obi-Wan killed Grievous with a blaster. Yoda and Obi-Wan killed a bunch of clone troopers. Ahsoka decapitated Mandalorians. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half, first sideways, then vertically many years later. Mace Windu decapitated Jango Fett. All of these people that got killed were actively on the offensive against a Jedi. The concept of self-defense is a very easy one.
    Yes, this would have been problematic. Except, it never happened. Kenobi did not raise anyone to commit murder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  25. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022