Objection to an element of JC policy concerning new threads

I understand where you're coming from, Typho, but you are generally going to get the users that are interested in the forum(s) day to day workings in here, anyways. There will always be a vocal minority that makes a difference. It would be great if it were majority, but short of something like the dreaded "focus group" or survey, board wide policy is decided by the few rather than the many. And that's not necessarily a bad thing in some cases, just the way it goes. That's not saying that if you know of someone that doesn't know as much about Comms or may not find their way in here, you can't point them this way. A link in one of the JCC stickies like the Rules and Policy thread or the New Users thread may be a way to go.

 

Another thing you should consider, Typho, is that many users read than post. I think you'd be surprised how many people know precisely what's going on in this thread but simply choose not to post for any number of reasons. They could just be the non-confrontational types; they might not think it's an issue worthy of their time and effort to invest in; or they could even simply be seeing their views adequately expressed here by the more eloquent JCCers and feel no need to simply hop on to post "QFT".

Bottom line is that the users know what the process is, on the whole, and they choose or don't choose to take part for reasons that are outside of the scope of the MS. It's one thing to solicit feedback--such as was done with the Focus Group and/or is periodically done in comms. It's quite another to demand it.

 

It's also any users right, or call it responsibility, to PM any moderator at any given time to ask for their reasons for a lock or whatever else, it also doesnt hurt to say you disagree and why you do so. Mods do mistakes sometimes, some more than the others. And trust me, some are eager to learn from their mistakes.

Also, for some moderators, who dont spend that much time in their own forum, it's the only hope to get feedback in any way.

 

look, I'm not trying to jump on the mods here, I'm really not. You guys do a great job. I just think it might be time to start looking at some new processes to allow users to have more say in the way the boards go, and to bring moderators more in tune with the wishes of the users (and by that I mean not just a handful, but as many users as possible)

 

Or some, like myself feel that they may not have anything relevant enough to add to the discussion despite wanting to participate. I can't recall how many responses I have typed up during a discussion and not posted because on second glance my opinion does nothing to further the discussion and gets lost in the shuffle.

 

I find it's better to get my thoughts out there for all to read. For better or worse.

 

Seriously! A lot of times it can be a way to gauge interest in a policy discussion, at the very least. If you have something to say and it's within the TOS, post away.

 

Post it. The mods might disagree, but even a "QFT" post can be useful as you get more of an idea of just how many people are of specific opinions. Not everyone is going to be able to type up giant, profound posts on all the subjects, but it's not like people have to. Getting your point of view out there, even a brief posting of it makes a difference.

Currently it's true, the decisions on policy are usually driven by a vast minority. While it's never really going to be the majority that will participate in policy discussions, there is no reason why more people shouldn't be participating in what goes on in Comms, even if it is to say that they are agreeing with a particular stance.

 

But Comms is really boring.

And I don't just mean that as a joke or to be irritating. That's really why most people don't post here and it's why I rarely post here.

 

Yes but thats because everyone agrees with Everton on whatever issue. Not all of us are that fortunate to have our own discussion winning meme.

As for making my opinion heard whether its relevant or not, I am not certain I necessarily agree but will certainly keep it in mind the next time I hover over the back button.

 

Again reiterating my point about YJCC viewership of policy discussions in comms.....it will never work. We've got to have a way.....in YJCC directly, for users to openly express where they'd like the direction of the board to go and to have a say when it comes to policy. It needs to be right up in front of people so they can see it, post on it, and the board moves forward. I personally think bringing in a temporary sticky thread in YJCC when an issue is under discussion or a potential policy change is forthcoming would be the right way to go with this. In this way it won't be a permanent thing all the time in YJCC, and the userbase can be heard from with a lot more folks having their say in what direction the board takes.

 

What do you mean it will never work? It's worked for like ten years.

A lot of people don't POST here, because they don't care, but I think a lot of people read things here. When something stupid or annoying happens that the mods do, it gets a lot of attention in Comms. For minor issues like this thread was initially created about, you aren't going to see a lot of posts, because most people are like "eh...so?"

 

i agree with andalite. i check comms often but i rarely post. if something occurred that directly affected my enjoyment of this place you can bet i'd be in here voicing my opinion, but fortunately this almost never happens.

 

I agree with Matt, if you dont speak up, it appears like everything is fine for you and that you are happy with whatever is being said and done in here. The only way to make your voice heard is to post here and say something about the topic.

Most successful policy changes that have been achieved by the users in comms were the result of many, many users stepping up and posting their opinion. If not just the usual suspects of the vocal minority post their opinion, it has a lot bigger impact and is more bound to actually influence something.

 

If I ever have an issue with policy or MOD decisions, I don't hesitate to speak up, but often communicate via PM. So in a sense everything is fine when I decide not to post something as often what I change my mind about posting is often in regards to a specific discussion brought on by someone else's issue, and I am just looking to weigh in in one form or another.

 

I give up. I get the feeling my points just aren't getting across with the majoirty of people here. Run the place the way you see fit, I'll continue to post here regardless.

 

Typho, with all due respect, I think most people get your point, they just don't necessarily agree with your conclusion. I happen to be one of them. I recognize what you're driving at--that policy changes shouldn't be on a whim nor should they be implemented without due consideration to the law of unintended consequences. As this minor "policy change" demonstrates, you have to be careful about making sure that people understand where you're coming from when you change policy or you're bound to have questions.

That all being said. This is not a democracy. Nor should it be. I used to think otherwise, but I've seen that it simply cannot work here. There is entirely too much diversity of opinion to reasonably expect that we can hear all competing opinions on all issues and vote on them to meet the needs of every individual or group. Doing that will just result in a lot of hand-wringing in MS about every single thing they want to do, forcing them into an absolute state of petrified stagnation. Do you want that? I sure as hell don't. It's one thing to solicit feedback. It's another thing to ask the users what they want every time the JCC mods think something needs to be done.

Ostensibly, the mods are selected for their judgment. That should be the standard by which they are judged (outside of the normal TOS-violation, cut-and-dried issues). As you saw in this thread, when the users thought the Mods were exercising poor judgment, the Mods were held to account. The Mods then have to be willing to stand up and say "We understand your concerns. Here's why we what we did." and if they made a mistake, be able to admit that and move on. That comes with the territory of being a mod. Their judgment is on display every time they post and every time they edit. It comes with the territory. I don't think we need to create additional mechanisms to further inform their judgment, like a YJCC Comms thread or anything like it. They are picked to mod their forums because they supposedly know their forum and understand its users. They are picked to exercise their judgment with that understanding as a guide. If they can't do that without further assistance from the users, then perhaps they shouldn't be mods. I don't think that's what you're suggesting.

tl;dr version: We don't need YJCC Comms or anything like it. We need the mods to understand their forums and mod them accordingly. If you don't think they're doing that, that's a separate issue.

 

I read comms often and am one of those that rarely speaks up. I don't see any need at this point to have a YJCC comms thread as I can see it being more of a hassle to keep on track than these threads in comms.

Roo gave a lecture in the chat the other day and it was a really good one, I will summarize, the internet is not serious business, have fun, be excellent to each other. Roo if I got it wrong please correct me.

 

That pretty much sums it up Bill and Ted style, Cathy. Did I really lecture? Sorry.

 

While the internet certainly isn't serious business (unless you own ebay or amazon), telling someone who comes to Comms with an issue that they shouldn't actually care because, after all, its just the internet is a terrible way to deal with the community.

If this place was deleted tomorrow none of us would drop dead, but while the JC exists every effort needs to be make to take genuine community feedback seriously.

 

I forgot to add that Souderwan is right, IMO. The JCC mods seem to have answered in here, and that's about as much as you could expect from another separate YJCC Comms forum.

 

I would agree with malkie. Just because we're a Star Wars message board doesn't mean that's a passive excuse to not do it right. Even though we're just a Star Wars fan site, we're going to do it right until we can't anymore.

We'll keep Comms what it is now. The place where you come for any and all questions on policy, actions or questions.

 

I would never put words in Cathy's mouth or purposely take her out of context, nor will I take this further off topic than it's headed, but I don't think she was saying that Comms isn't serious business. A bit of a difference in the "internet" as a whole (especially when referencing something said about a chat), and a particular forum designated for feedback and communications on a site.

 

No, we're the StarWars fan site.

 

True. Google 'star wars fans' and we're at the top.