Discussion in 'Literature' started by GrandAdmiralJello
, Mar 25, 2013.
You left out issues 6-8 of the Star Comics series.
We've been trying to figure out the timeline over at the Wook, since we're going to be adding the info to articles with "ambiguously canon" tags around it. What I've suggested is sticking Neutralizing Trigon I and Kea Kidnapped midway through Escape Into Terror, since it's in that episode that Thall Joben both finds out about and steals the Trigon One --- as such, the comics that see him sabotage the Trigon I it can't really be before or after the episode. He doesn't know about the ship before, and he's already stolen it after.
In The Stolen Ship, C-3PO remarks that he and R2-D2 don't have a master, so I've suggested sticking it between the Thall Joben arc and the Jann Tosh arc. True, the Fromm Gang is free and not in the hands of Jabba, but that's true in The Secret Disk as well, which sees the masterless droids return to visit Kea some time after originally parting ways with her. So, the Fromm Gang having ambiguously canonically escaped from Jabba is a given.
I've also suggested sticking the last four between the Jann Tosh arc and the Mungo arc, which is admittedly pretty arbitrary, but I don't think we can get very exact. The two Jann Tosh ones could conceivably take place at any point during the Jann Tosh TV arc, or even just after Coby and the Starhunters. The latter two see the droids masterless, which suggests post-Jann and pre-Mungo (post-Mungo is unlikely due to this guy). The droids are masterless when they visit Kea in The Secret Disk, so it's not during the Thall Joben TV arc --- I think it's best to assume that the seven comics proceed chronologically.
Correction on Kea Kidnapped: Neutralizing Trigon I halfway through Escape Into Terror, and Kea Kidnapped between Escape Into Terror and The Trigon Unleashed per Green tentacle's reasoning in the Wook thread I linked above. That's my suggestion, anyway.
First off, a question for TalonCard and Jeff: gentlemen, can either of you tell me what’s the thinking in determining the ordering of the Droids chronology to have the Star Comics stories preceding the TV series episodes? Is it based predominantly on the appearance of the Fromm gang in the comics, while the TV show has them getting apprehended by Boba?
Thank you, GAJ. Though challenging (especially when you’re translating for posterity), translation is immensely enjoyable to me.
All servants of the Waru know his Truth can only be rendered in his selfsame tongue.
Actually, this reminds me of a passage I wrote about Darth Nihilus for the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide that was ultimately cut. Let me see if I can find it….
Here it is. It was intended as the last paragraph and coda of his section.
Nihilus wore a mask of possible Hendanyn origin and spoke an unsettling, literally extirpating, tongue. Jedi seers sampling it from a Sith holocron proclaimed its intelligibility required mere patience, for Nihilus’ was the language spoken billions of years hence, at the end of all time. Jedi mystics offered a slightly less fantastical hypothesis: impossibly, Nihilus spoke the raw dialect of the Force itself, untranslated by midichlorians—one needed only die to comprehend it.
You're very welcome!
And I'm sure the three of us would be all for such a collaboration.
Agreed! Of course, there are also Spanish and British Droids and Ewoks children's books that are very little known.
You’re very welcome! And many thanks to you for letting your gratitude be known, Vong333. It makes it all the difference.
I think those discrepancies are pretty much relegated to Sabotaged Droid. (And I dare propose the illustrator was mistakenly using the character Nik from the previous story, The Stolen Ship, as reference—compare the two.) Someone dropped the ball there. The rest of the stories are beautifully dead on.
Thanks, TC! I remembering having a Golden Ewok, but my sig apparently misplaced it.
Translation is an art that requires a lot of discipline, and an appreciation for nuance in more than one language. It's not easy, but it's definitely appreciated and noticeable when done with care.
Yeah, sigs were lost after the board move. Courtesy of archive.org , your signature as of... whenever the robots crawled the site included "Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™"
It also -- you must never forget -- contained "Second Prophet of the Church of Waru."
That is seriously, seriously cool stuff.
Shame it didn't make the final cut, but I'm definitely going to regard that explanation as part of my personal canon henceforth.
Is this the kind of "cut content" quote that could be stuck on the Behind the Scenes blurb on Wookieepedia? Or don't they include that sort of thing? Anyone know...? I've certainly seen KOTOR2 quotes from Avellone here and there, so something like this seems like it could be an interesting nugget on the Nihilus page.
That's completely insane. I like it.
I can't decide whether Ewok going pro on us makes his awards more valuable or less.
That's part of it. Subsequent sources (most notably Darth Plageuis) have established the Fromms as major underworld players, but they're not really mentioned in anything after the cartoon. It's always possible they weren't killed by Jabba, but that certainly seems to be the implication. (And implying was really as far as a cartoon at the time could go.)
The other issue is that at least issues #1-4 were originally intended to precede the cartoon--the Empire isn't referenced at all until #5, and while Threepio's statement that they have traveled a century into the future to meet the Ewoks proved untenable continuity-wise, it does indicate a distinctly earlier setting than the cartoon, which has references to the Empire and the Jedi purge. Neither point matters much now, but it seems obvious that the original intent was that the comics took place first.
Hey, Abel --- for me it was The New Essential Guide to Characters. R2-D2's entry, proceeding chronologically, describes the events of the Star Comics before the events of the cartoon. That's how I pegged the Star comics as taking place at some point between 19 and 15 BBY (see this article, specifically references  and  at the bottom, for an example of the logic used).
I don't know what others would think, but it seems totally relevant for BTS content. I'll certainly try to include somewhere properly.
First things first. Zorrixor, Havac: thank you for the compliments. I genuinely lamented seeing that Nihilus bit cut, but I’m happy it’s well-received here.
TC and Jeff, thanks for chiming in with such thought-out observations, gents. One thing I want to point out is that, as far as I can see, it’s actually a paragraph in See-Threepio’s entry in the New Essential Guide to Characters that suggests the Star Comics come before the TV series. I couldn’t really find anything comparable in R2-D2’s entry. Of course, if you see otherwise, please point me in that direction, Jeff.
An interesting source for Droids chronology is actually an exclusive children’s book from Spain (published by Plaza Joven and simply titled Droids) which actually reverses the implied chronology of the TV series, recounting the Jann Tosh and Mungo Baobab storylines as flashbacks while the droids barely have landed on Ingo. This book is also fascinating, incidentally, for its unique contribution of the tale of Sise Fromm’s former right-hand man Sonko—who botched a job and wound up incarcerated on the planet Umax.
True, but remember: according to the cardback of the Droids action figures, Uncle Gundy was an adventurer and treasure seeker. It seems quite plausible that he found the Death Wind Corridor “backdoor” into the region and shared it with Jann.
Ah, thank you for that, GAJ. I am restored to full power!
I'm all for it.
It's how he woulda wanted it, Coop.
Many thanks, LelalMekha.
Wow, I've never heard of that story before or of Sonko! Future translation project perhaps?
Oh crap, is he dead?
You're most welcome of course. I never liked that some people thought "Nihilus was speaking Sith language." Those hissings do not sound like other known instances of spoken Sith words (except those unprononounceable strings of consonants featured in Tales of the Jedi, which should probably be seen as artistic license).
Is it even possible to reconcile the Star Comics Droids (issue 4)/Ewoks (issue 10) crossover into the timeline? With the time travel issue, this means that R2-D2 and C-3PO were traveling together for over 100 years prior to the events of the original trilogy. Now that we have The Phantom Menace, this seems nearly impossible. I guess one possible way to reconcile this would be to say that the Sooman ship was never intended for time travel. Therefore, while the Droids most definitely did travel in time, somewhere around 30 or so years, the instrument readings were probably faulty due to the unexpected space time warp. Perhaps there were no accurate readings at all and the droids were just overreacting. In this case, the events of these comics, apart from the visit with the Ewoks, could have still taken place between the trilogies. Another possibility could be that the droids really were counterparts many years before the events of The Phantom Menace, became separated at some point, and then were finally reunited in Anakin's hovel. It's unlikely, but it probably isn't impossible since the droids were already in existence prior to the events of Episode I, and as far as I know, we don't know how old they actually are at that point. C-3PO's memory would have had to have been erased as he had no memory of R2, but since he was probably just a pile of protocol droid scrap prior to being rebuilt by Anakin, that's not surprising.
Anyway, I'm thinking that if the events of Droids 4 and Ewoks 10 actually do belong in the timeline, and the 100 years part is true, then this story might come first in the Droids chronology.
On a different Droids topic, in the Spanish Droids book that mentions Sonko, is Sonko the same species as the Fromm's? If so, could he possibly be Tig Fromm's older brother? If the info on the Kenner coin is canon, then Tig must have an older brother that has still never officially been identified. Tig's coin reads, "Also known as "Baby Face", Tig Fromm is the younger son of Sise Fromm. He oversees the fiendish Ingo operation."
I think the Star Comics can only work if the 100-years bit is disregarded.
Or if they're measuring it in Alzarian years.
Yeah, you're right. P. 34; C-3PO's entry. Thanks for the correction and sorry for sending you off in the wrong direction.
I wouldn't mind an Alzarian years retcon...I'd like to see more of them; Prince Plooz is adorable.
I would like to see more Alzarians too. How about a Prince Plooz stand alone movie!
Playing dead, maybe.
I think it’s possible. A wormhole *is* just a giant time-space distorting plot device. If there’s ever going to be interpretive wiggle room for a chronological retcon, this is probably it.
This is an interesting idea, but probably too convoluted, especially taking into account what a sketchy proposition the idea of Threepio having a “past” pre-Anakin is. Remember, Threepio’s personality is made up of three distinct verbobrains. We might say that the personality matrix of just one of those verbobrains is the dominant one (or even the only working one)—and that was the one “born” on Affa 112 years ago—but that seems to be stretching things significantly just to fit an old interpretation of what some original pieces of continuity only seemed to imply.
I think there may be cleaner ways to address the Droids/Ewoks time travel issue.
I think that's a distinct possibility.
Heh. Though always tempting, I tend to shy away from "alien years" retcons as an absolute last resort. The only story I can see at the moment *maybe* necessitating it is Scoundrel's Luck.
Wait, so in Eddie's blog post on this, in the comments there's something about Hungarian Han Solo novels. What are these?
Via Google, respectively:
Han Solo Nomad
Han Solo, Imperial Agent
Han Solo and the Bounty Hunter
Han Solo War
"Dale Avery" is apparently this guy. Can't find anything about "Ed Fisher"
Well, that would be nice, but there's a world of difference between translating a few strips and translating four novels in style. I don't suppose they have people who can translate Hungarian professionally in their free time.
Find me a Hungarian, stat!