Discussions Official Disney/EU discussion thread.

I heard that there was a big backlash from the fans when Lucasfilm officially declared the expanded universe non canon. Personally, I wasn't really mad, since the expanded universe was always more of a "what if" story for me.

 

I was. It was never “what if” to me. I was so happy to follow my favorites through new adventures and to meet so many new originals. Bless the others that kept the franchise going! And Mara Jade... that character distracted me from a very complicated adolescence. She was strong, intriguing, and could hold her own... but had just enough vulnerability to be relatable. I was devastated to find out I would never see a representation of her on the big screen, and also frustrated with Disney for not wanting to commit to the EU, but took some of its best ideas from it AND brought in Thrawn...because I guess we didn’t have enough dudes in Star Wars.

 

During the Clone Wars cartoon era, Lucasfilm sort of used the EU more like an IP farm than strictly working with it as canon, which is sort of what they're doing now.

 

There was a similar pattern following the original trilogy. Lucas moved SW over the medium of television with the two Ewok films, Ewok cartoons, and Droids cartoons. His fingerprints are all over the details.

 

Star Wars canon is not static: I still recall reading Bill Slavisek's (sic) 1993 Guide to the Star Wars Universe which talked about the "Clone Wars" being against clones and that the Empire had been founded about 50 BBY (as opposed to 19 BBY). It was still a possibility in the mind of that 1993 kid that Darth Vader had a theoretical "mistress", and that the Empire was relatively much older.

As a young kid in '93, we didn't have Prequels, Clone Wars TV Shows (although there were still reruns of the Ewoks show), movies every year etc... One of the first "adult" (not in the pornographic sense) novels I read as a kid was Heir to the Empire. Star Wars is largely responsible for me spending less time on Super Nintendo and actually picking up books.

When the announcement came out in 2014, I reacted with apathy: I felt that Lucas had done to Star Wars with the prequels what Gene Roddenberry did with Star Trek vs The Next Generation (pajamas, dustbuster guns, and Wesley Crusher, whose title for "most hated SciFi character" was taken by Jar Jar Binks). I wasn't even paying attention to Star Wars at that point, and only came across the article as click-bait.

However, there is a lot of EU material out there, and Lucas Arts/whatever their publishing arm is, did a great job of trying to keep everything consistent between authors, video games and even movies (some EU stuff had to "retcon" or "explain" problematic Prequel information, such as Bevel Lemelisk creating the Death Star or Boba Fett being Jaster Mereel).

This weekend I sat down and watched "The Force Awakens." Pretty much everything that could possibly be said has already been posted (I am guessing), good or bad. Apparently there is a "Republic", and the "Resistance" is just a supporting NGO fighting the "First Order?" It would take a massive intelligence failure on part of the New Republic (and now non-canon agents such as Kalenda) to miss a planet-sized superweapon, or some suicidal policymakers to just ignore the First Order the way Neville Chamberlain basically ignored the rise of Nazi Germany (and even in this case, people like Churchill were branded "a crazy has been" who was screaming his head off in Parliament about German re-armament).

If they were going to have "The Resistance" as a separate non-governmental entity challenging the "First Order", make the political fight between "warmongers" like Organa Solo and "anti-militarists" led by someone like Borsk Feyl'ya a major plot point.

The point is: the new Star Wars films (at least the first), in terms of plot and universe background, are failing some pretty serious "common sense" checks. Since we are dealing with space wizards, some suspension of disbelief is mandatory to enjoy the franchise. yet, Lucas Arts put a lot of effort (much of which Lucas kinda took a big dump on) to make EU canon consistent and making sense.​

 

I am glad there is more to it than I first thought.

However, I am guessing that similar discussions have been started/ended endlessly in the fandom since the new films came out. I'm going to try TLJ this weekend, but without starting a debate, I don't have an optimistic appraisal of the new franchise thus far. But it deserves a fair chance.

 

So, uh, a movie adaptation of Dark Empire, eh?

 

Not sure if we should use spoilers but I will to be on the safe side,

Spoiler

Yes TROS is basically a poor man's Dark Empire, without the pathos or logic that made DE work. Its striking, at least to me how many elements of the EU the ST "borrowed from"( a less charitable person would say ripped off) without any credit given or understanding of their original context. Palpatine's return is not explained beyond "mad scientist" and its sort of slapped on as a retcon to why Ben has acted the way he has. But I digress.

 

There's actually a bit of Glove of Darth Vader in there too (major TROS spoilers)

Spoiler

what with the Palpatine grandchild and all. I wonder if Palpy Jr had 3 eyes.

 

well the initial post from April 2014 does say "In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe."

And certainly the ST has drawn the most from the EU basic broad storyline, but to be fair, a lot of the post ROTJ EU basic story beats are what a lot of any writer coming with a sequel to ROTJ would probably stumble upon.

 

@BigAl6ft6 One of the best things about Dark Empire was that it was Han Solo who killed the Emperor...with his blaster. The moment he became the Chuck Norris of Star Wars...

And the thing is, the story was done...well...very well. It didn't really matter that "Han shot the Emperor" (he also shot Vader in ESB), because Luke's story was his redemption arc with Jedi Brand? (been awhile) and coming to terms with his dark side. He didn't need to be the one to "finally" defeat the Emperor because the enemy Luke had to face was his own dark side.

 

I think the Vong arc story, told in a 9ology would be a dream. I mean if marvel did it, then Star Wars could be done.

Of course, it needed to be well planned, not how they did it with 7, 8 and 9.

 

I've often thought about the best way to adapt the NJO.

I veer between a nine movie series, or a TV series.

It may not be realistic but I think 6-9 three hour movies, with a 4-5 season TV show, operating in tandem would be the best way to adapt it. In a way that it is faithful and also matches it in scale and scope.

 

As someone who is a massive fan of New Jedi Order, my ultimate reluctance with it getting any sort of on-screen adaptation, and the reason I'm glad it never will, is the inevitable move by the producers or filmmakers to tone down or remove the "controversial" aspects of the story in order to better cater to general audiences. No portraying the Vong as hostile and dogmatic religious zealots, no spiritual relationship with pain, no complicated hierarchies or castes for characters like Nom Anor and Nen Yim to traverse and manipulate, no violent or intensely graphic battle scenes, and no bleak, seemingly-unwinnable conflict with the horrors of war transforming teenagers into soldiers overnight, because all of these things are apparently "ToO dArK fOr sTaR WaRs". In essence, placating the mainstream audience would butcher and disfigure the original intention of the story, and destroy just about everything I love about it.

Any attempt to adapt NJO in this day and age of safe, generic and formulaic blockbuster tripe would likely involve creatively-bankrupt phonies rendering the original story unrecognizable. And that is the last thing I ever want to see befall a story as ambitious and enthralling as NJO.

 

@Darth Nobunaga (I like your name, btw, after Oda Nobunaga, the "Julius Caesar of Japan", perhaps shared with Tokugawa Ieyasu) You are probably correct: an attempt to do the NJO and the Yuzzhan Vong invasion would probably get "JJ-ized" or "Disney-ized" down to the lowest common denominator, in addition to injecting plenty of identity politics.

One thing I liked about the NJO is that the in-universe politicians could be realistically political about plausible, hypothetical issues that affect a massive Space Republic. They did this without falling to the temptation to be "topical" or enter Star Trek territory: while there were some vague notions of "droid rights", these movements were more portrayed as "rebel nationalists" (which most real-life rebellions are, and not about "noble virtues" or whatever), and Star Wars was never meant to address issues such as AI. Nobody was trying to say that Cal Omass or Borsk Fel'ya would belong to which ever political party. Organa Solo spends more of her time trying to unite disparate factions into a Republic than shouting about how its "her time" and slapping Poe Dameron in the face over real concerns. You know, being a real political leader trying to solve problems as opposed to being a director's soap box.

But I digress: the NJO done by someone like Ronald D. Moore of Battlestar Galactica fame would be great. But I do not trust the current Star Wars Regime to not "dumb it down" or add unnecessary identity politics. In a way, I'm glad Disney "cancelled" the EU: they aren't ruining it.

 

Star Wars has always had politics. Identity and otherwise. Acting like the new stuff is some digression from the norm is either willfully ignorant or disingenuous.

 

@Outsourced You are mixing up franchises. Acting like Disney Star Wars is "just the same" as what Lucas did or that he had a political agenda when he wrote his scifi is mistaking him for his colleague, Roddenberry. A few light references to guerilla forces vs mechanized troops in a film paying homage to past scifi is a far cry from the stated Roddenberry agenda. In fact, Roddenberry himself said of Star Wars:

“I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slay-slaying the evil emperor finally. There’s nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - Everything doesn’t have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun.”

-Gene Roddenberry, obviously saying that whereas his show was a political message, Star Wars was just about having fun.

 

I think NJO is unfimable, too long, too complex.

LotR is three books and that already translates to three of the longest movies I know(especially when counting the special editions). And even they cut so much from the book(the entire Bombadil/Barrow sequence, the Grey Company, Gondor being more than one city among others), and no I´m not saying all that needed to be included but especially the last one really urges me. Also several characters are reduced to archetypes simply because there isn´t any real time given to them(Legolas, Gimili and Denethor for example).

NJO is 19 novels, each of them longer than at least the latter two LotR books if I´m not mistaken. To make this into a series of movies one would have to cut far too much, entire plot lines would need to go. Even if its 9 movies the lenght of the "Skywalker Saga" as its now called much would have to go. And 9 movies is 9 years of especially the child actors aging, a long time to get tired of the story.

 

Does anyone think in today’s political climate, antagonists like the Yuuzhan Vong would go over well with certain sectors of our society and politics?

Or that the high violence, darker themes, and politicking would please people who are generally OT fans?

The Yuuzhan vong are not generic bad guys that are blandly inoffensive. Their caste system, absolute devotion to their gods, the domain infighting, and disgust for machinery-would likely offend this or that group interest group(or at least people would say it did).

Pain, religion, and characters like Nom Anor(cynical atheists who are cowardly and ambitious)-that is stepping on too many people’s toes.

Now a very brave studio and director could do all the above anyway and take whatever heat they got.

But Disney? They are the definition of corporate blandness. They dare not offend anyone who might cause them trouble or give them bad PR.

So I agree with @Darth Nobunaga on this matter.

I would not wish to the see the NJO adapted and ruined in the process.

 

Except that's completely wrong. Star Wars has tons of clear parallels with real world politics, like the Nazis, Bush and Reagan era politics, diverse vs. homogeneous groups, religion, etc. It's pretty caked on when you go back and look at it.

 

You are reading too much into it. Obviously, a person who was using their SciFi to promote a political message believed that Star Wars wasn't about that. After no Star Wars movie, do I know anyone who said, "Wow, I really liked Star Wars for its political message!" No, they enjoyed a fantastical story about space wizards and laser swords. Provide some evidence that the OT was supposed to have a grand political message like Roddenberry did for his series, as you allege.

 

Funny that you bring us Rodenberry as a source on this instead of, say, Lucas himself? Because he says, point blank, that Star Wars is political.

`Star Wars' inadvertently hits too close to U.S.'s role