Official DVD Thread #2 - Changes Discussion

The reason why Jabba seems so much taller in ROTJ is because of the perspective we see him at. He is above our characters looking down on them from his throne. So reasonably someone would assume that he is taller.

But then it doesn't matter.

I just hope the lightsabers are fixed in any newer versions. That's all that has bothered me.

 

I was thinking about how the Lightsabers should be updated while I was watching ROTJ last night and I must admit that I actually think Lukes green saber looks pretty ROTS standard most of the time on the DVD version.


Well... perhaps it's just me who needs better glasses

 

I like most of the changes that were made to the DVD, but he still has more to do. i do feel like he rushed it. and some of the changes posted on this thread have been awesome.
im basicly a film fan. you guys that are able to make your own changes, thats awesome. i can't remember what thread i was on but someone put together the DS dule with music in the background. that small little change made that scene come to life. i am getting a little weary of the different editions though. one last time and lets blow this thing and get outta here.

don't underestimate the passion of the O-OT fans.

 

The more I think about it, the more it seems that every change made to these films has been for the sake of the prequels. The improved/replaced effects are only really there for the sake of someone who is going to watch the movies 1 through 6.

When I saw that sparkly new Lucasfilm logo in the trailer for TPM back in November of '98, it hit me. The SE's had been for this.

Having watched the O-OT again recently, my feelings toward the SE/DVD changes are clearer to me. Nothing done to ANH really bugs me, with the obvious exception of Greedo shooting first. No one seemed to complain when Lucas added some CGI to THX-1138. In fact, I wonder just how much we'd really mind the changes if he'd simply left Han and Greedo alone. And yes, I am aware of and respect the purists and hope we all get our way someday. I'd love to see the O-OT in the same quality as the DVD's.

TESB's treatment gets off on an even lighter charge in my book, especially since Kersh himself said at the DVD's press junket that it's still the same film to him even with the changes, and this was also in response to someone who pointed out that Empire had the least changes of the 3 films. McDiarmid as Palps only makes sense considering it's not only a different voice we hear in ROTJ but a different face we see as well. The dialogue probably could've remained exactly as it was without this "how is that possible" business from Vader. I think he's just trying to fool Palps into thinking he knew nothing of a kid named Skywalker but it's caused so much confusion among fans. Ultimately it's a good change in my book. Adding Temuera's voice annoys me only because I feel it's an unneccessary (sp) continuity fix with the prequels. In my opinion, Boba's voice sounding different from Jango's (really vice versa!) was a cool EU story waiting to be written. I mean, who knows, maybe Boba's voice box was injured in a fight or something. Now we'll never know. If they are going to let the EU explain other intertrilogy inconsistencies, such as the clone trooper/storm trooper debate, then boba's voice should've been left for the EU to explain as well. As for cloud city, the added shots aren't needed but they certainly make sense given that several million people lived there. Also, having now seen Alderaan in ROTS and knowing that Cloud City was built in an Alderaanian style I can see a visual connection. We still don't see all that other EU stuff on Bespin (oooo, an idea for the future release thread!) but we do see the crowds of people and a nicely expanded environment. Anyway, this is talk for other forums so I'll move on. Not quite sure how I feel about the walls getting removed/windowed since you don't see that kind of change done to the other movies. There's also something about the way Luke and Vader's sabers once looked. I kinda miss the thicker white cores, they look a little too thin as they are now. Vader's shuttle I'm kind of against. I would say it's needless only because it interrupts the flow of Luke's rescue not once, but twice! The shot we see of it flying away from bespin looks just like the shot of the Falcon and TIEs a minute or so later and the shot of Vader disembarking is an outake from ROTJ if you didn't already know. Plus we already had "bring my shuttle." Wasn't that enough?

I could pretty much go without any of the changes made to ROTJ. "Jedi Rocks" is first of all alot worse than the alien punk rock we originally heard, and second of all seems tacked on for the sake of having some CGI characters appear. The puppets were better, the old music was a whole lot catchier. I hate this change. As for the beak on the Sarlaac, can you say REDUNDANT?! The thing is already a giant mouth with tentacles, and it has another mouth inside it? If you've played the first level of Super Star Wars, I'm betting this change makes even less sense to you. The shots of the various planets I could do without, I just don't see their purpose. Having watched the O-OT again, I somehow like the idea of "hey, this galaxy spanning epic is over and we're just chilling out in the

 

i can respect that. i guess i like the changes, but i think he (GL) could have done better, and more. i'm with you on 2 things, 1) greedo shooting, and 2) jedi rocks. these two things should have been left alone. as for the celebration i do like what he did here, and i agree that this change was to tie the PT in. the sarlac monster thing, well something had to be done here, but i think that could have been done better. i want to see a fearce creature, i'm just not scared of it.

while i'm on ROTJ, he should have CGed the rancor. also i would have liked to see in the DS2 when luke gets brought before the Emperor, the space battle like we see in ep3, you know like right outside the window, or just a little closer than what we have now. also maybe a little longer dule. it is the last dule of the saga, so it should be a little longer. also, if your going to sub hayden for shaw at the ghost part, then you should replace him on the DS as well. i'd be ok with that, and make him disappear.

some people think that if you like the changes or want more changes that you hate the O-OT. i wouldn't say i hate them, but they just seem hoki, compared to the PT. i've said on other threads that the O-OT/ OT has (IMO) a better story line than the PT. and the PT has (IMO) better SFX than the OT. you can't really change the story to much in the PT, but you can bring the SFX in the OT to par with the PT. and it wouldn't take a complete overhall cause the OT fx are still well just OK.

 

"Haydakin's ghost, as people have pointed out, is jarring for people who haven't seen I-III because it's a different actor than the face beneath the helmet. On the other hand, seeing Sebastian Shaw with normal makeup and hair could be just as jarring I suppose. Not sure really how I feel about this change."

But, anybody who hasn't seen a Star Wars movie yet is likely to see them in order, including the prequels at this point. ...So, they Hayden ghost WILL make sense to them. No problems here.

 

The SE and DVD verions brought some good things and bad things to the O-OT, IMO.

The Good:

-Picture and sound quality
-New Mos Eisley scenes
-Better explosions
-Improved Obi-Wan/Vader duel
-New graphics during the attack on the Death Star
-Final Celebration in ROTJ

The Bad:

-Ruined lightsabers
-Greedo shooting first
-Jabba scene in ANH
-"You're lucky to get out of there."
-Slave 1 following the Falcon
-Vader returning to the Executor
-Jedi Rocks
-Hayden

 

HAving Hayden in ROTJ still makes no sence other than trying to put something recognizable from the PT in the OT.

I can't buy the "Anakin truely died when he went to the dark side" crap played by GL.
If he truely died when he was the Hayden Anakin then how the heck does he redeem himself as the Sebatian Anakin ?

I hate it personally!

The links showing Naboo at the celebration and the fact that Tattoine are in both trilogies should be quite enough!

 

No matter the age, Anakin will continue to look like Hayden. He won't look like Sebastian Shaw no matter what age he is. Have you ever seen someone so badly burned that they look totally unlike the person they once were? Shaw is now just the badly burnt Anakin and Hayden is what Anakin looks like. Even if Lucas said that Anakin didn't die metaphysically on Mustafar the ghost would still be Hayden.

 

Hayden was badly burnt as well, so that's really not the best argument to be using right now. Besides, notice that at the end Anakin had his hand back and his scar on his face. Along with those, he had every limb back, he had hair and he had no scars.

The same went with Sebastian Shaw. The "Injuries Theory" holds no water.

 

And so why did Obi-wan look like Alec G instead of Ewan M?

Naa I don't buy it.

 

i wouldn't say i hate them, but they just seem hoki,

So, you might say, "Hokey versions of ancient films are no match for a good computer at your side, kid."

But then, Han was wrong, of course.

 

because....ugh..i dont kno how exactly to explain....i kno i read somethng from an interview or something in which GL explained the reasons...it might be in my favorates...lemme check


EDIT:

nope....i forgot exactly what he said
but i think it makes perfect sense

i mean, in the netherworld of the force(im going and assume its heavenly, with no pain and such) why would he be old and scared?
and there was never a sebastian shaw without the suit and scars, as shown as a spirit, so why show it?

i dont kno, its hard to explain

 

Ok I can agree that it makes SOME sense that Anakin's soul was in the netherworld or whatever and then Obi-Wan and Yoda brought him back, BUT who the hell is ever gonna dig that deeply to understand what's going on on the screen in front of them. Most people just want to watch a nice afternoon movie with their families without having to go "WTF?" at the end of it. Moreover, while it makes some sense that it's Hayden, to me it makes MORE sense that it's Shaw. A person's ghost appears as the person looked when he died minus any artificial deformities, and with time the ghost fades away like Ben's does in Heir to the Empire. It seems perfectly logical with a reasonable level of complexity.

So Shaw doesn't look exactly like Hayden, so what? Alec doesn't look exactly like Ewan, big whoop. Shaw looks more like the guy inside the Vader suit than Hayden could ever hope to look.

I'm a big fan of playing with the OT and the PT to make the saga flow better, but the whole Hayden thing seems like a really rushed and un-subtle way of trying to do that. I feel like Gl made the change first without thinking, and THEN thought of any kind of weird logic to have the whole fiasco make sense.

 

it depends on the way you interrpret it i guess.....i love the hayden change


ok now im going to reflect(for lack of better words) on the dvd changes and what still needs to be fixed

ANH:

the good:
*any new shots
*the jabba scene.... i love it....the SE version was terrible, but they really fixed it up
*han greedo scene.....this never really bothered me, actually it bothered me that han shot first, and then somehow greedo shot after and completey misses han...i like it better now
*diagona update
*updated explosions
*expanded mos eisley

the bad:
*sabers...dear god....they need to just completel redo all sabers in the saga to make them ROTS style or something....the OT sabers make me want to cry...it looks worse on dvd than on vhs
*blood on creature in cantina....can we say continuity problem?


ESB:
the good:
*extended wampa scene
*emporer update.....shows that vader and palps both have their own ideas for luke, but the scene is poorly edited, as the empore has no expression wutsoever, and i think it would work better if he was covered by his cloack a little more
*expanded bespin shots and such...i love it
* boba voice update...it doesnt sound as good, but it helps continuity

the bad:
*dear god! the sabers!....they arent as bad in this as they are in ROTJ or ANH, but they still are in desperate needs of fixing
*lukes fall....i cant stand it....its looks way to fake...fix it!

ROTJ:
the good:
*end celebration....i think they should add kashyyk and utapau though
*updated sarlacc...i love it
*hayden....see first few sectances
*added ropes to hans feet

the bad:
*THE SABERS!! AHHH



as for jedi rocks....i kinda like it actually....i guess im alone on that


what really needs to get done is saber updates, also updating holograms so they are PT style and such
i wouldnt mind them CGing SOME of the cantina creatures

 

This may be off task, but can anyone confirm or refute this entry from IMDB? Feel free to PM me if you don't want this thread to go too far off topic.

In the original and special editions, the credits have Ian McDiarmid as
Emperor Palpatine. In the re-release, which was made after the prequels, it
is now Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious, Sidious being his alias in the
prequels.

When did they ever change his credit? Does anyone have a screenshot of this?

 

Ian McDiarmid, nor Hayden Christensen for that matter, are credited in the Original Trilogy.

 

Are you talking about ESB or ROTJ? In ESB, Clive Revel (sp?) is still credited as the Emperor, and in ROTJ, it's credited as 'Ian McDairmid as the Emperor'. To the best of my knowledge, the credits weren't modified for the 2004 DVD release (which is no different than the 2005 release).

 

Yeah, I meant TESB.

 

*bump*

 

I always looked at the SE as three groups it created:

1. They love every change and want more, anticipating the supposed 2007 updated boxset.

2. Hate any change, ultimate purist who think the movie should be left alone.

3. This group in which I am apart of don't mind some changes, but do mind other changes. These are not extremes on either side, and probably not that vocal on the internet, so it really doesn't look like a huge group. Most friends I know don't hate the SE, or don't love them either, but they all do hate these changes:

ANH- New Jabba scene, only cause the CG Jabba is bad, it is better to let the viewer wait til ROTJ to see this Jabba guy, and any editor knows that the Han/Greedo scene says everything that is now repeated in this scene.

ANH- Han doesn't shoot first anymore. This is just one of those scenes that you question why it was changed. It isn't about CG, or something Lucas couldn't do in 1977, it is just shouldn't have been changed.

ANH- Luke/Biggs add in scene before departing to blow up the death star. You can see they redubbed Bigg's voice and edited out him talking about knowing Lukes father, cause in 1977, Lukes father wasn't Darth Vader.

ROTJ- The new JediRocks song is just awful. It sticks out like a sore thumb in any of the OT movies, and I have yet to know a person who likes it.

ROTJ- Hayden inserted over Sebastian Shaw. Whether it ties the saga together or not, it doesn't make sense. It was Shaw/Anakin who saved Luke, it was Shaw/Anakin that was conflicted throughout ROTJ, and it was Shaw/Anakin that tells Luke, "Tell your sister, you were right." By putting Hayden/Anakin in the force ghost scene it totally contradicts what has happened in ROTJ, because even though he was Darth Vader in the OT, he was always conflicted.

All the other changes everyone I know doesn't have a problem with: The new Jabba Sandcrawler, ObiWans Hutt, The ring around the Deathstar, the new detailed X-Wing Fighters leaving Yavin, The new Wampa, the expansion of Cloud City, and even the new Song at the end of ROTJ.

They are all changes that don't stick out like a sore thumb and for anyone that has seen the movies hundreds of times, it isn't a jarring change that the viewer must deal with. But when Lucas inserted new actors into roles, and changing the meaning of scenes, it forces fans not to like the SE changes at all, even though it is only a few changes they really have problems with.

By Lucas going so far with so many changes, he has alienated some fans while making some fans yearn for more changes, when all his original plan in 1994 was to just update ANH. It is a perfect example of going too far with something, and thus turning off many people in that same respect. I know I didn't have a problem with the 97 SE, but once Hayden was inserted in the 2004 SE, that is when I went back to the O-OT camp.

Sometimes less is more.

 

^ I like the way you divided the groups very clearly and I think you hit the nail on the head when you listed exactly which SE scenes people liked and which ones they hated. Good job!

I personally see myself as mostly with group 3, but I'm also with group 2 because I also love the O-OT and feel that we should all have a copy of it, while at the same time I'm with group 1 in eagerly awaiting a new boxed set with a whole ton of new changes. Actually part of what I want is undoing the changes that you mentioned people didn't like, as well as adding more of the kinds of things that people DO like.

Also if you look at my sig, you'll notice that we group 3 people are not as quiet on the net as you'd expect

 

You know, I really didn't like Jedi Rocks at all when the SE's first came out, but it has really come to grow on me. So much so that I think I even prefer it to Lapti Nek. Not to take anything away from Lapti Nek, of course. But Lapti Nek was written to be somewhat contemporary to early 80's pop music, which really, in itself, defies the standard of SW music. Of course, Jedi Rocks does the same, and I rejected because it was new and changed.. but now in hindsight, I think Jedi Rocks is a bit more catchy musically than Lapti Nek. To me, they both defy the SW standard for music (which was defined by the cantina band), so considering that I'm a bit more able to accept Jedi Rocks, and after being a bit more open minded about it, I think I prefer it. Maybe it's a phase. I dunno.

 

I never really liked either. They should just make new piece of music that fits into the environment better. Jedi rocks is a mix between a Broadway musical and an African tribal dance. For me that just doesn't work.

I don't get it though, what exactly were they doing in that scene anyways, getting performers to come on one after another and all? What is that the Star Wars version of American Idol? Too bad Simon doesn't have one of those trap doors and a rancor on the show...that would make things a lot more interesting