Full Series Official Star Wars Rebels Music Thread

You guys are gonna have to be more specific. I heard the end of "Zam the Assassin/The Chase Through Coruscant" right when they enter, a split second of "A Clash of Lightsabers" and then a variation on the opening seconds of "Anakin vs Obi-Wan". Once the duel has started, I only hear original orchestrations (which are BEAUTIFULLY melodic and hauntingly optimistic for an ominous scene).

 

Is the version of Chase through Coruscant the one from The Hidden Enemy, or is it a new piece? If it's new then Kiner really likes that track.

 

Sorry to hear you don't love Rebels soundtrack. How fluent are you in musical lingo? It would be fun to chat about it without everyone having to read it. (Does this forum have a chat?)

I think the duplicate tracks have to do with promotional material. I guarantee that Kevin Kiner named the track "Spring Their Trap" but when starwars.com decided to use that cue on their website, they wanted something that sounded more like a title. Hence the "Imperial Inquisition" name.

And that's awesome. Cool scene.

 

No, this isn't the weird, fake trumpet version. It's the VERY end of the chase where she runs into the cantina. Also, the Rebels finale was done with a full orchestra.

 

I love the music of the Films and TCW, and soundtracks in general. However, Rebels' soundtrack doesn't really click with me. It's sounds too light-hearted too much of the time, and the constant reuse of music from the films is quite grating. At least TCW didn't overuse the source material, and was much more innovative.

With the duplicate tracks, I'm still not sure whether that's the case. There were a few tracks for TCW with dodgy links, two requiring apostrophe's and one was completely wrong (Luminara Ending). So I'm not too surprised to see it happen again.

If you want to talk directly to me click on my name, and post there. It's always fun to talk about music!

 

Wait, cantina? Do you mean in Enemy or Fire?

 

When Ezra and Kanan first encounter the Inquisitor in the season finale, Kevin Kiner uses the music from the end of the Chase Through Coruscant where Zam runs into the cantina. I should've been more clear.

 

henryj95 Oh right. The version that plays in The Hidden Enemy is originally from the part where Obi-Wan is hanging from the droid.

I posted it here, starts around 48 seconds:


Is that the part you mean? I recall hearing it, but I'm not sure.

 

Nope, the part from Chase Through Coruscant I'm talking about is at 8:07:


The usage of that score is here in the opening seconds of the video:


There are subtle differences. In Attack of the Clones, the chase is winding down so the trio of notes reflects that. In Fire Across the Galaxy, the season's climactic duel is about to begin so the trio of notes reflects that as well. That's one of the reasons I love Kiner's Rebels score. He manages to alter and progress themes written by someone else in a respectful yet meaningful way.

 

Ah, I though you meant the part at 1:20, that's more like the one I posted. But it's definitely a new version.

 

The music is terrible. I can't believe the praise that it is getting on here. Flabbergasting and disappointing.

Instead of drawing heavy influence from the OT music but creating a completely new score that just references universal themes throughout the movies like character themes, The Force theme, the Rebels fanfare etc. , he actually rips explicit one-off melodies and accompaniment lines ("Here They Come", "The Battle of Hoth", "Tales of a Jedi Knight", even "The Basket Game" from Raiders of the Lost Ark(?!?!) etc.) and just plugs them in at random places in the episodes.

Fans that are not intimately familiar with the OT music end up praising him for it and calling it brilliant. However, to many longtime fans that do intimately know the source material, it completely rips us out of the episode that we're watching, since we know that that music is meant for a specific scene in a specific movie. Kiner seems to have completely misunderstood that single-scene melodies and accompaniment lines like the string line to "Tales of a Jedi Knight" are NOT meant to be copied and reused for other scenes/movies/shows, except under very select circumstances. They are specific to just those moments and should be very sparingly referenced, if even used at all. There may have been just a few moments where John Williams reference a previous leitmotif (like "Here they Come" in RoTJ for a brief moment), but they are sparingly and smartly done.

For an example of exactly how to score an animated series based upon a well-known and already brilliantly-scored movie series, look to Shirley Walker's music from Batman The Animated Series. I wish someone of her caliber was given the privilege of composing the music to The Clone Wars, and especially to Rebels. Kiner is clearly on a far lower talent tier, clearly does not appreciate John Williams' source material enough to use it or reference it judicially or properly, and is obviously cutting corners for the sake of time and budget.

I can't outright blame Kiner for his lack of talent, since [we hope] he is doing the best that he can. I can't outright blame Filoni because he clearly has a strong professional relationship with Kiner that he carried over from The Clone Wars. Of course he would keep him onboard for a new series instead of getting someone fresh and more talented.

I blame Disney. They went for the cash grab early without regard for ensuring the highest quality for their product, since they established such an aggressive timetable for Star Wars VII. They needed an animated series put out ASAP to lead up to their new movie and wanted to spend as little money as possible on it. So they brought back mediocre-at-best Dave Filoni as the Lucasfilm carryover from his Clone Wars work, didn't care about him keeping the clearly less-than-mediocre Kiner onboard as composer, and gave them a terribly condensed timetable and limited budget.

The end result is what we hear. The occasional mediocre-at-best new piece of music interspersed among many reckless and strange remixes of known Star Wars themes, single-scene melodies and accompaniment lines. Also, the occasional blatant Indiana Jones single-scene ripoff, which makes John Williams music lovers cringe and shake their heads as they are pulled far out of the new Star Wars story that they are trying to watch.

 

Agree with the above. The music is terrible, just a rip-off of other scores. nothing original at all.

Speaking as one who hated the PT films, I can say at least the scores WERE excellent and original and not just simple rip-offs. I cannot say the same with this show

 

While I may agree that the Rebels score is lacking, and unoriginal, the Clone Wars soundtrack was very good and much more innovative. Kiner was a good composer on that show, but his work for Rebels is quite lackluster.

But TCW's soundtrack hardly relied on the film's soundtrack at all. So I regard Kiner as a fine composer, who may have been given a mandate to use more themes from the films, regardless of whether they had much meaning.

 

Ease off the judgement, will you? Neither of us speak for the entire fandom. I don't recall ever mentioning that I don't have intimate knowledge of the original scores or that I'm not a longtime fan.

I love Shirley Walker's work and own all volumes of the officially released BTAS soundtracks. She had all live musicians every episode and it sounded great. In terms of continuing on from the Tim Burton films, Elfman's theme is used in the opening credits and randomly in several early episodes and then never heard again.

I would like to hear exactly how the "occasional" (as you put it) use of new music is considered mediocre. Tell me how the themes for Ezra and Kallus are that much further below those for Yoda and Leia, other than the fact that John Williams didn't write them. If your issue is that you haven't found the themes to have been used in meaningful enough ways, maybe it's just because you're not really listening and you're waiting for the music to take the front seat in a 22 minute TV episode like it did for Binary Sunset in a 2.5 hour movie (there's some sarcasm here). A half-hour TV episode doesn't have the time for that! And the only reason you notice the repurposing of cues and themes from the original trilogy is that you're very familiar with them.

I agree that Rebels is more enjoyable when original music is being played. And I agree that music is composed for a specific scene and/or emotional beat. But using the opening phrase of Tales of a Jedi Knight throughout Rebels as a representation of a person's connection to the force was a brilliant idea and (for some of us) doesn't distract from the story but adds a bit of continuity.

Hopefully, the stuff I'm saying is making a bit of sense to you (whether or not you agree) but the fact that you called both Dave Filoni and Kevin Kiner mediocre proves that we're definitely in a different class of Star Wars fan. I would be happy to continue this line of discussion as a dialogue, assuming you can stop passing judgement that isn't yours to make.

 

Not meaning to pass any judgement on you directly, henryj ---- to be honest, I found it hard to really distinguish new themes in Rebels Season 1 because there was so much pervasive usage of old themes and one-off melodies at random times. Do you have any links to Ezra and Kallus's themes that I can give them a listen?

In not just my opinion, but George Lucas's himself, the music is almost more important to Star Wars than the content itself. For canon content, it should be of the highest quality and the viewer should be able to listen to the music and know what is going on onscreen without even any dialogue (like the old silent movies). So yes, with this in mind, and as a huge star wars music fan and music lover in general, I do expect the music to take at least as important a seat as the rest of the content in the 22 minute TV episode. There are composers out there that can deliver as such, even without a live orchestra at your disposal. It should be even easier for a composer of high talent with the digital tools at hand and the "fairest game" themes that JW has already established, such as The Force theme, the Rebels theme, the Star Wars melody etc. So many novel variations on these can be created and woven in well with new music without explicitly ripping off cues from the OT or references the one-off moments that were meant for specific scenes in the OT and PT.

The opening phrase of Tales of a Jedi Knight just didn't work for me --- I'm glad it worked for you, though. It tended to rip me out of the moment every time, because all I could think of was Obi-Wan and Luke talking on Tatooine. Just felt contrived and out-of-place for me, and its repeated usage started to make me feel like it was diminishing the quality of its core usage in Episode IV. Someone watching Rebels first and then watching Episode IV (to watch the Star Wars canon storyline in strict timeline order) would think "hey, I've heard that line before!" when it appears in JW's score in Episode IV. Just doesn't seem respectful enough of JW's score to use it as Kiner did and not with more restraint.

Calling Filoni and Kiner mediocre is subjective harsh and my own opinion, and does pass too strict of judgement, so I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future.

 

I love music and for me it is one of Star Wars' major strengths. While some of the film music usage in Rebels does seem ill-timed because of prior associations I don't find it overly unpleasant. However, I do hope they expound upon it more.

 

Is there anything in this show that you do like

Serious question because I have never seen you say anything positive about it.

 

Hey, Saxman I too know the soundtracks and scores plenty well. It doesn't have to mean a fan is uninformed or being lame for enjoying music that's iconic to Star Wars being reused.

I'm genuinely sorry it seems to jar and distress you so, but we're not all the same.

 

Very true, CA ---- I'm glad to hear that some that are very familiar with the Star Wars music actually do appreciate the Rebels re-usage. Where do I call people who like it uninformed or lame or insult them in any way, though?

 

You don't specifically but I can see how some may see your 'tone' as harsh at times hence the above.

 

JKF --- I'd have to think about it to list some of the detailed moments I liked in Rebels, but one that came to mind immediately was the episode that showed the training of young Imperials. Also, the episode with the caverns where Ezra finds a lightsaber crystal. But in between, there were so many waste-of-time episodes, childish banter between zeb, ezra and chopper etc. for me to stay engaged without rolling my eyes and/or cringing.

 

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I can speak for *myself* thanks Fett.

 

Fixed.

 

Listen to Kevin Kiner’s Star Wars Rebels Soundtrack Online | MakingStarWars.net