Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Yes, thank you for saying that. Let's let it play out and then discuss, right?

 

The clip seemed to imply that Anakin changed them.

 

It kind of makes sense that since Ahsoka isn't a Jedi at this point, the colors for her saber are unique.

 

Wouldn't it be so Anakin if he fixed the lightsabers and thought that blue would be a way better color? Probably with some goofy comment that they now complement her stripes.
That would even provide the chance for a new rolling-eyes-gif. I mean, it's about time.

 

Anakin seems to be implying in that clip a certain manner of his typical egoism and arrogance that his colors are somehow better than her green and green-yellow former blades. I think he means well in his way, but what effect on her kybers that has remains to be seen. Did he supper charge her kybers with his superduper chosen one powers,lol. Beyond that its unclear why he changed them for her in the first place, since there is no evidence that blue blades are somehow stronger than green or yellow or some combo,lol.

Things about lightsabers and colors, if any significance these days, still dont really make a lot sense, even in the EU/Legends things were strange but back then colors were based upon the color stone. While EU ancient Jedi had a color significance and social class connection to them.

 

Perhaps the Jedi dismantled her sabers and destroyed the old kyber crystals after her departure. We saw in episodes like Lightsaber Lost that it's a liability to have lightsabers lying around for others to steal given how dangerous they can be. Also just the symbolic gesture of destroying her link to the Jedi after she left the order. Perhaps Anakin had to find new Kyber Crystals and assemble them in her old hilts before handing them off to Ahsoka. The new crystals were imparted with blue after he found them.

 

I don't know about that. There are rules in the forum, you know

 

I know. But ... rules and regulations does not exceed outside these walls. And I could use some new to annoy everyone who annoys me via WA late at night. ;-)


And still. Turning the color would so be Anakin's understanding of 'making them better'.

 

It is interesting for sure. As a welcome back token, she was to have been reinstated into the Jedi Order and given rank of Jedi Knight. But what you propose sounds more like a punishment and act to erase her from the order cause she was a disgrace. I do not think that's likely, since the Jedi Council were at fault, the shame was on them. Further, since Jedi had kept active lightsabers of the dead and even the Sith. Spare Lightsabers galore within the Jedi temple(extra sabers were even tossed to Anakin and Kenobi in the arena in AOTC) and not even other Sith relics were destroyed). I don't see it likely that Jedi would keep the hilts and destroy precious and near living and Force attuned Kybers. That is basically killing something for no good reason which seems out of character for the Jedi.

Moreover, in Dooku:Jedi Lost, Dooku offered to surrender his lightsaber when he stepped away from the Order, Yoda refused such an offer. Once a Jedi always a Jedi.

Would the Jedi hand her kybers/lightsabers again without her going through some form of trials to earn them and her back into the Order. Not so sure, but then again her giving them to Anakin was her own choice. Or that her sabers were honored by the Jedi(at least Anakin would) and awaiting her eventual return where she too was never really gone.

Maul never really believed Ahsoka to be a Jedi on Rebels or in the Ahsoka book when this arc takes place. He called her a part timer on Rebels and she too was still basically discarded by her own which hurt her in the book when Maul snided at her cause it was true. Both of them at that point had some things in common. Did Sidious play a part in sending Ahsoka to Mandalore to be killed, seems pretty likely he'd want Maul and Ahsoka dead and Mandalore captured. So did Palpatine play a hand in Anakin returning her sabers and not the Council directly. Palpatine influences the council and especially Anakin. And she was ambiguous on Rebels, although obviously Light Side aligned and allied to the defunct Jedi/Republic. Ahsoka flat out states herself that she's no Jedi to Vader even.

So what are they playing with?!

Maybe Anakin in a fit of rage destroyed her original kybers or whatever,lol.

 

Is it known how long Ahsoka was on her own after her departure? I know there was said something about a year, but I can't see how five seasons fit in two years and, I don't know ... the age doesn't fit or the age would make the Jedi look even worse after Ahsoka's trial. For me there is a difference if someone is on their own with 16 or 17 (as said, for me. You're an adult with 18 here and can live on your own with 17).

So maybe the lightsabers were so long in some closet or under Anakin's bed that he simply wanted to check them out before he left and so "messed them up".

@Vorax - would the Jedi have requested a trial at any time for Ahsoka getting her lightsabers back, then they should have done the trial on their own - with Ahsoka sitting somewhere and enjoying a nice drink. In my headcanon Anakin just got the sabers because he decided to get them. And as the lightsabers were probably taken by the clones (his troops) it should have been easy to get them back?

In my understanding Ahsoka came to Mandalore because Bo-Katan reached out to her or because Ahsoka realized Mandalore still has a problem and knew that the Jedi would not help (she knows that Obi-Wan had to go on his own the last time). In this case I doubt Sidious has much to do with Ahsoka being there. But to send Anakin there and give some official order to get rid of Maul, while manufacturing his "kidnapping" at such a convenient time that Anakin either has to let Ahsoka alone with Maul or - what might have been the real plan - letting Obi-Wan and Ahsoka there to get killed by Maul is probable.
I still have this "I have other plans for you" in my head. It could be taking Mandalore for Sidious, but to really get Maul's interest Kenobi would have to been involved. Palpatine was surely not happy that Obi-Wan was still in one piece on the Invesible Hand.

 

The "other plans for you" was settled in the Son of Dathomir comic. It wasn't about Mandalore at all; but

Spoiler

Talzin

 

Yeah, you have to read Son of Dathomir. The other "plans" was to torture Maul into revealing the locations of his Shadow Collective assets, and giving up his allies, which he did not do. Maul's Death Watch warriors rescued him and then there was a big show down on Dathomir after a series of battles spanning a few locations . The series was Maul's Shadow Collective/Death Watch vs the Sith and the Jedi & Separatists and Republic.


We also learn in SOD that the Republic was in contact with Bo-Katan resistance forces on Mandalore. So Bo-Katan was in contact with Republic Intelligence and Jedi. Also learn in Rebels and the TCW related Kanan comic Satine's royal bodyguards served with the Republic military and Jedi, Fenn and Protectors.

The Mandalore arc is supposed to take place simultaneously with the beginning of ROTS and it ends with Order 66 activated on Mandalore. So while Ahsoka, Rex and Maul are on Mandalore the whole movie of ROTS happens.

I don't know about Ahsoka jumping in with Bo-Katan so easily, she knew of Almec being a heel but her facing Maul was a death sentence. Rebels oddly retconned Bo-Katan to make her a heroine of kind when she wasn't on TCW. The last time they met Bo-Katan and her warriors were trying to kill her and Lux and were wiping out the Ming-Po civilians. If they touch on an uneasy alliance between Ahsoka and Ko-Katan would make sense, but they play gloss over it following their new storyline on Rebels. I would've thought Korkie and friends would've went searching for Ahsoka, not Bo-Katan - but we dont know if Korkie is involved anymore either.

Palpatine we know wanted to control of Mandalore since the 2nd Season, there was the failed attempt of Republic intervention and Dooku's alliance with Death Watch ended with Dooku slashing Pre(off camera).

 

I don't think that was a retcon. Didn't Bo-Katan help Kenobi on Mandalore during the Lawless episode of TCW when things went to hell and Maul killed her sister? Towards the end of the episode, she's the one who tells Kenobi to essentially get the Republic involved in the first place.

 

Well she was a evil terrorist for most of the TCW show, and she only switched sides cause Maul defeated Pre in single combat and assumed control of Death Watch per their own warrior tradition. Not sure how she could be legit on any level, she betrayed their own code even. She did not break with Maul cause he killed Satine. Satine's death came much later. Also remember Korkie and Bo-Katan's failed attempt to break her out in the beginning of The Lawless.


No, during The Lawless it was more a character switch to a complete retcon by Rebels. By Rebels they had placed Bo-Katan above everyone else for reasons unknown other than basically she's a Kryze and a rebel leader who played no role on the show prior - even those who was actually part of Satine's legal government and were actually fighting which apparently only Fenn was left. The darksaber became something else on Rebels which did not make any sense other than spin some story to get the darksaber from Maul to Sabine to Bo-Katan. I guess the writers also forgot that sword was used to both slay Pre and Satine by Maul, I suppose Bo-Kotan kinda forgot its history too,lol.

There was no reason ever to explain why she was revered anyway. She aided in handing over her planet to madmen, after many previous attempts to usurp Satine's government and attacks on her life by Death Watch. She helped cause a chaotic period of unrest, and killed a countless number of people in the process. She also had a hand in killing her sister(Pre going to execute her anyway) since she was part of the plot to overthrow her with Death Watch and the Sith Lords in the first place.

She was am impulsive and blood thirsty madwoman on the show when she was a villain. Yet by Rebels she was next in line for leader of Mandalore. Which made no sense, since she brought Mandalore under Republic and Imperial/Sith control AGAIN. Apparently she must go rebel a second time cause former Death Watch loyalists end up in control of Imperial aligned Mandalore anyway, the Saxon Brothers. Its also not explained how the darksaber becomes the universal symbol of a united Mandalore when that sword was used by Pre only and later won by Maul to lead Mandalore into a new age age - which was to make good on the promise to return Mandalore back to its warrior way.

 

That's very unfair to suggest she had a part in killing Satine. You can't tell me she could've possibly known that Maul was always planning to kill her as opposed to keep her imprisoned. I never thought of her as a terrible person, even from the beginning. I think it was more that she was brainwashed into believing that the Death Watch, with no morals, are doing what's right for Mandalore. For all we know she may have attempted to talk to her sister about Mandalore's pacifist stance before Bo even got involved with Death Watch.

 

I agree she isn't responsible for her sisters death, but she was still a prominent figure in a terrorist organization that hurt civilians. Her first appearance in a Friend in Need is a complete 180 from the heroic figure she seems to be in rebels. Even during the Maul arc of TCW she opposes him for her own reasons, she states she doesn't want an outsider ruling Mandalore. Never once does she so much imply that she finds the Siths tactics morally aberrant, and in fact earlier in the same arc claims they are no different from Jedi.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say Rebels is a retcon to her character, it does take place nearly twenty years later and a lot can happen in that time. Depending on how the new season of TCW goes, it could give her some real character development that explains how she shifted from a bloodthirsty terrorist to a freedom fighter. Though I would be surprised if they spent that much time on that since Filoni seems most interested in rounding out Ahsoka's story. But hey, if snips saw fit to giver her control of Mandalore there has to be a good reason for it.

 

It's interesting that it appears as though Ahsoka will have such a big role on Mandalore with Bo and yet Filoni didn't include Ahsoka in any of the Mandalorian episodes of Rebels. I wonder if he did that deliberately so as not to spoil the future plans for the Season 7 release. Of course of note is how at the end of Rebels (Finale epilogue), you see Ahsoka joining Sabine in the quest to find Ezra. Like it's not the first time she's helped a Mandalorian, obviously a couple decades removed.

 

Ok, sorry, sorry, sorry, my fault. I don't really know if I read it and simply forgot about it. It's not on my kindle, so I'm really not sure. Just forget my post.

 

No worries. I actually just bought the physical graphic novel of SOD off of Amazon for a good price a couple of months ago; I had read it earlier elsewhere.

 

Hmm, OK, today is already the day of me being stupid so I should be on the safe side to ask stupid questions. What is a graphic novel like? Is it a comic redesigned and set so it fits a regular book formatting or is it something different? Is it easy to read?
Because with the Vader comic even via the kindle app for PC it wasn't always easy to read all panels. And I'm not really sure if I want to spend money on graphic novels only to have the same problem (and without the possibility to zoom in).

And back to topic: Maybe Ahsoka wasn't included in this episode because this really was Sabine's story. Wasn't just "Concord Dawn" during Ahsoka's time? The other way round might be correct, though.

 

I haven't given TCW much thought lately, but your post put my mind back in that situation in a helpful way. I'd forgotten how much BK actually interacted with both Jedi and Sith.

I'd like to know how she views herself. I mean, she's clearly a moral person, but does a terrorist look in the mirror and see a terrorist?

Back in the day, the Jedi (QGJ and OWK) were sent to protect Satine, not BK. I wonder if that situation is the cause of the rift between the sisters. I mean, I could imagine they were more like-minded at one point; and after her interaction with OW, BK sensed a change, a negative one in her POV. Leading to BK seeing herself as an insider, a true Mandalorian, but not her sister.

I can understand why past experiences would cause her to see them, basically, as equally negative, but not after Satine's execution. She can't equate Maul and OW after that. Maybe that was the motivation behind BK's reveal to OW about their sisterhood. Maybe she realized OW isn't so bad. Maybe the Jedi aren't so bad.

Now I'm hyped!

You know why Ahsoka wasn't in post-Malachor episodes!

 

Fair point. Granted we never really get her perspective on the matter, the last time we see her is after she rescues Obi-Wan (Which in itself is a major character-shift). I wish we could get more of her POV so we can actually see this sort of shift. I get the feeling her opinion on her sister is very complex prior to her death. The Death Watch certainly engaged in terrorist actions against Satine's government, and in fact attempted to Assassinate her a few times. Yet when it actually happens she certainly seemed to regret her sisters death.

Is it a question of ends, or means? Does she really see the Jedi in a better light after her sisters death, or just as a tool to take her planet back? I hope the new season delves more into her motives, she is an interesting and layered character who changes greatly over her arc.

 

But that's what I mean. He may have deliberately set up the episodes where the Mandalore ones were after Twilight of the Apprentice.

 

Oh, I forgot one! Protectors of Concord Dawn was before Malachor. When the Rebs needed a foot in the door, the writers used Kanan instead. Maybe it has something to do with SOM, or maybe it's just keeping the budget tighter with less characters.

 

I checked and Bo-Katan wasn't in the Concord Dawn episode.