Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Oh, it's terrific for so many reasons, and it's the reason I really adore the PT era without really liking the PT films all that much. TCW is just rich and full of ideas and great characters and worldbuilding stuff. It isn't especially coherent or consistent and I think it's hard to argue that it is, but that doesn't diminish the things that are good or great about it.

 

Lucas did the same "flinging ideas out there there he'd been mulling over for years, plus his desire to create silly stories and situations, but then remembering the show is ostensibly about a brutal war, so he had to also make sure to throw in some brutal moments as well..." in Young Indy series as well.

When the show was airing, it was all over the place and most people found it too difficult to follow, which is one of the reasons why it was cancelled after just two seasons, even though the original idea was to go all the way to the early 1930's when the movies start to take place.

But now, when you can watch it in chronological order, as a series of 20 or so movies with Young Indy, its actually really really good. Especially the WW1 episodes.

 

This is totally fair. If you look at TCW from a story-telling perspective, the main storyline follows Ahsoka Tano and Captain Rex, the dual protagonists of the show, on their journey to disillusionment with the Jedi Order and the Galactic Republic. Conventional wisdom is that you cut out any extraneous material out of a story that doesn't serve the main storyline. There is a lot of such material in TCW. So from that perspective, yes, it's all over the place narratively and often tonally inconsistent.

The thing is... I don't really care. TCW is the passion project of a creative visionary and I'm more than happy to have him break the rules to explore and expand this fictional galaxy, even if a more traditional narrative with a tighter focus a la Rebels could be made by excising large chunks of it. It's similar to why I don't mind the giant info dump in "The Council of Elrond" chapter in LotR.

 

What Lucas did with TCW isn't so different from what Disney is now doing with 10 shows. The difference is that Lucas didn't have deep pockets to fund 10 shows so he mushed it all up into that one show. And just like I can and will pick and choose what I like from Disney's 10 shows, I cherrypick TCW episodes based on the threads and throughlines I like to follow (Which is Ahsoka and Rex with side dishes of Ventress and Maul and the running theme of how the war and Palpatine's manipulations drove these people out of their original stations, alliances and their way of thinking.)

 

That's a fair point. While Lucas' pockets were far more substantial in the mid 2000s by the time TCW was airing, it was still pocket change compared to what Disney is able to pull. If they have even the slightest idea for a story, they won't shoehorn it into an existing series but rather expand it into its own spinoff (see Book of Boba Fett).

 

Ironuc that despite Disney having a bigger wallet Rebels had a smaller budget and was the reason why you had pretty much the same setting no matter what planet they went too.

Despite Disney having bigger pockets,

I disagree. From a story telling perspective I think the key story was Anakin and Ahsoka. Basically it was Lucas rewriting Anakin from the disaster in the PT to more how he should've been and his relationship with Ahsoka was what made her interesting. On her own she was less interesting ie see the Martez Sisters arc as an example.

I would argue that Rebels was tonally more inconsistent. You could have goofy Ezra/Chopper slapstick while say having Maul meet up with Obiwan in the same episode.
Filoni gave a backstory to the Grand Inquisititor in S2 after he'd already killed him off. It was pointless.

 

I think the main relationship in TCW was Anakin and Ahsoka, but I say that Ahsoka and Rex are the protagonists because they change the most over the course of the story. Off the top of my head, the only real change Anakin makes is he goes from rejecting Ahsoka to accepting her and that happens within the original movie. Anakin's story in TCW is sandwiched in between two movies and there's only so much development Filoni & co. could do. Even the development that could have been done seemed to be passed over to make Anakin more of a mentor figure - he's already quite a bit more mature at the beginning of TCW than he is in AotC, he's already a knight etc. I could see this being open to debate though. I don't think I necessarily thought about them as the protagonists until the finale and then it all seemed to click.

I disagree that Rebels is more tonally inconsistent than TCW though. Nothing is more jarring than having the seemingly child-focused D-Squad arc followed by Maul beheading an entire table of crime bosses in the next arc.

 

True but those were at least different episodes amd arcs. With Rebels you've got Inquisitors flying around with there helisabers/goofy (unfunny) Chopper antics with Vader/Ahsoka all in the same episode.
Same with Twin Suns, you've got the Ezra/Chopper slapstick and Maul and Kenobi again in the same episode

 

That's conventional storytelling, though, with each episode having a balance of elements, some tilting more one way or the other, but... basically like a TV show. Which is the opposite of having, essentially, four episodes of Duck Tales followed by The Godfather.

There's really very little arguing that one of these shows is more conventionally structured and tonally consistent than the other. That's not even a "vs." thing, it's a difference that would be apparent from simply describing the two shows in a three or four sentence synopsis.

We kind of know what TCW would have been like if it were more tonally consistent because we know what Filoni proposed to Lucas when the original brief was that the main characters wouldn't be in play. It was... pretty much Rebels, a small crew on a ship away from the core. It would've been far more "of one piece" than what happened when Lucas started throwing in the main characters and crazy resurrections and weird magic planets. But I don't know that it would have registered as much more than a new thing like the old Droids show, or ATLA dressed up as Star Wars. What we got suited the scope of the time period better. TCW had to be as bonkers as it was to have the kind of impact on both the narrative and the fandom that it has. It's a feature rather than a bug, mostly.

 

Yes it maybe Duck Tales followed by The Godfather but Rebels did it all in the same episode.

Oh yeah Filoni original pitch was just Ahsoka and Plo Koon bouncing around in the Ghost. There is no way that would have the same impact.
Now I can only speak for myself but its her relationship with Anakin was what made her interesting. Hell Anakin Skywalker basically being rewritten was what made him interesting. Then you add bringing Maul back and it almost felt like Lucas trying to fix Prequel mistakes. But for me that's what made it an interesting story as opposed to Rebels and the whole infiltrate another Imperial base again and Lucas despite his faults was/is a story teller while Rebels shows Filoni lack of skill in that regard and simply redoing old stuff (including literal same lines) and willingness to sacrifice story in favour of his fan fiction fantasies. He literally did a writer act of God act to keep Ahsoka alive , story of Starwars be dammed Dave don't care. Filoni for me is good producer but he's not a story teller. His stories are basically video game quests with 80's style showcasing of his favourite characters.

Doing a rewatch of TCW and one thing I do love is all the different worlds and vistas. In Rebels it was pretty much the same look and got old quickly but with TCW you get a feel of a huge galaxy with different Planets and different looks. Its great

 

Twin Suns is the epitome of the tonal inconsistencies throughout Rebels. But it's not limited to the story lines. Even characters are tonally inconsistent from episode to episode and within episodes. Every character was randomly given dialogue that moved the plot even if it contradicted their dialogue in other scenes. This makes every character nothing more than a plot device and sacrifices any character growth or development displayed in other scenes.

 

If I had a nickel for every time I read a multi-paragraph review of Twin Suns that hailed it as the greatest Rebels episode whilst not mentioning Ezra and Chopper's desert adventure a single time, I'd be able to afford a replacement for my Gentle Giant Savage statue

 

I know. Don't even get me started. The episode had the potential to be great. This should have been a powerful and poignant episode, Not appropriate And yet so many herald it as the best of Rebels. Blah, blah, blah!!! Same thing with Twilight of the Apprentice episode. The duel between Ahsoka and her former master is building tension. The stakes continue to rise. The emotions are at a pivotal juncture, and we cut to Ezra sitting on his ass saying, "Looks like I need more practice." Not appropriate.

 

@Darth Chuck Norris

Yeah, those comments are in no way appropriate at all for Jedi Council Forums. Tone it down please.

 

Removed- see header bashing rule.

 

Well I'm doing a rewatch now. I'm doing Chronological order though I probably won't watch every episode For example I can't be bothered watching the Dooku/Anakin/Obi Wan gets kidnapped arc. Nope ill just move on to the next arc

Just done Cat and Mouse and Hidden Enemy. I liked both episodes.
Cat and Mouse the duel between Anakin and Trench was good. We see Anakin skill as a pilot, using his brains and determination. While Trench is a good one off villain. Note the phrase: 1 off villain, we don't need to see him again
Overall 8/10 A good episode and does what it sets out to do.
The Hidden Enemy is both good and bad. The plot with Rex and Cody and Slick is fun. Though dramatically it could've worked better if we had a few episodes of getting to know Slick with Rex and Cody first and this would've had a greater impact with the audience. As it is, its like oh so that guy who we've never seen before is the traitor .. OK I guess
The side I didn't like is Ventress and her so called trap. Not only does she attack 2 Jedi by herself, without any back up and so puts herself and therefore Dooku plan at risk, which is bad enough but she then blabs to Obi Wan and Anakin about the fact she has a spy in there camp. Why would you tell your enemy about your own spy in there camp
Overall 7/10. While the Rex/Cody plot is actually the most interesting part of either episode. Its still only part of 1 episode and let down by the other part.

 

To sow paranoia and distrust, disrupting the enemy's movements as they then turn inward to deal with this new problem, which gives your side time to mobilize and plan without the worry of getting attacked

 

Just finished Clone Cadets and it's a fun enough episode, introducing new Clone characters onto the show.
Though the Bounty Hunter character, whose hired tp train them, wanting them to fail doesn't really work. Shouldn't he want them to succeed or it would simply reflect badly on him but oh well
Shaak Ti is dishonest in this though. She says she is giving the Clones the freedom to choose on deciding to give the Clones another chance to graduate . Yet she's not. Basically there choice is to Graduate and go fight and die in a War somewhere and well that's it. They've not been given the chance to try other career options. Nope its war or nothing.

 

I don't think so. They give the same training to all clones, but if some of them keep failing, it proves only that those particular clones are deficient, not the training they provide, and it is much easier to send them down the maintenance crew, instead of wasting their time on them, when there are countless of other clones to be trained. That particular bounty hunter was not exactly interested in wasting his time, he was all about efficiency and strictness, kind of like the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket. It's his partner who was actually interested in giving chances to every clone, instead of easily discarding them.

Clones were bred to fight for the Republic, that's unfortunately the reality. It is the only meaning of life they know of, they are taught from the very birth to believe in it. They all strive to become great warriors and they want to prove themselves. Simply sending them down the maintenance and making them janitors would effectively shatter their dreams and negate the very purpose of their existence. Shaak Ti indeed gives them a chance to fulfill their destiny, as opposed to that bounty hunter who dismissed them as failures.
The whole ethical problem of using the clone army in the first place and the Jedi accepting it is a whole another discussion, which is not particularly relevant in the context of this episode. But as we know, the series does not necessarily take a militant anti-Jedi nihilistic stance on that matter. Jedi treat clones as people, not as objects, which was established in that very episode, and in fact in the very first episode of the series with Yoda and his squad of clones, which was drastically different from anything that had come before The Clone Wars series. Most of the Jedi befriended their clones, they encouraged individuality in them, and they treated them with respect, and Shaak Ti embodied all of that in this episode. But unfortunately, this relationship was caused by the ugly necessity of that orchestrated war, in which everyone got played by Sidious.
The dialogue between Ahsoka and Rex in "Shattered" further proves that it's not so simple:

Yes, at first glance, fate of the clones and their purpose is truly ugly - bred to die in a senseless war, and what's worse - getting robbed of your individuality and all those good experiences against your will, being reduced to a tool after having an illusion of being a person, betraying your friends that were the only people who treated you as a human being. But it wasn't all horrible. They experienced joy, they experienced friendship and love, they experienced life. Which leads us to the complex question that humanity has been dwelling on for centuries - is it even worth being born? Depends on your point of view, but The Clone Wars and Star Wars as a whole don't necessarily take the nihilistic perspective.

 

Hi SW fans, i need some big help....

I am a Original guy, but i was led to the HAL cuts of the prequels which has really turned the movies on its head for me - so much more enjoyable !

I have now stumbled across the Season 7 final / ROTS cut which runs for over 4 hours and this also has peaked my interest with the hope that by adding in SW-CW's i can further make the Prequels a much more fleshed out and brilliant experience. I have never watched the CW's but now have disnye plus and have full access. I am 40 years old however and find many of the episodes to be way to kiddy for my consumption. I am really hoping that perhaps someone has a list, or even better, a fan edit which compresses the CW's into a shortened experience that makes the prequels feel more complete - including the story arc of Ventress, Count Dooku, Grevious & Darth Maul.

I have come across a few "essential" list. but i am not convinced these are what i am after. Can anyone possibly fill me into the path of the ultimate version of a shortened CW's expereince, ala like the HAL cuts were for the prequels.

Thank you in advance, & may the force be with you...... always

 

Just doing another rewatch of TCW and I always wondered why Jar Jar’s voice changes from bombad Jedi to Dooku Captured

How come Ahmed Best started off voicing the character, then LaMarr stepped in for three episodes only for Best to then return ?