Official Thread: Discussion of Potential Changes to the Classic Trilogy for Future Release, V.2.

Well, it wouldn't really be a distraction, because it would be in the background and focus wouldn't be put on that. To me, I think it would make sense to have just a few shots of rebel ships and TIE fighters in the background, and maybe a few shots of Yavin behind them too. It's smart cinematography, in my opinion.

 

I know most people would hate something like this, as it's quite a major thing... but I think Ian McDiarmid should re-record his lines in Return of the Jedi. He sounds so different from how he does in the prequels and The Empire Strikes Back. I much prefer the deeper, more gravelly voice he used in the other films.

And fix the slugs.

Some more changes:

- Remove the Jabba/Han scene from A New Hope. A CG Jabba will never look as good as the puppet. Put it as a Deleted Scene to be included on the disc.

- Put Lapti Nek back into ROTJ. Jedi Rocks is just awful. If Lucas really likes the CGI, they could use the same singer model, but use Lapti Nek instead of that horrible pop song.

- Redo the scene with Han melting out of the carbonite.

 

The slugs I agree with because that was just poor make up design, but I don't see why McDiarmid should have to re-record all of his lines from Return of the Jedi just to retroactively fit with the prequels. Now I'm not taking a shot at the prequels or anything, and it's obvious that McDiarmid's voice isn't going to sound exactly the same after nearly thirty years, but in my opinion that doesn't justify a change of that magnitude.

I also agree with you about the Jabba scene and Lapti Nek, but why should the carbonite part be changed?

 

Not the entire scene, just the effect of Han being released from the carbonite. The red glow and his skin illuminating like the sun doesn't quite make sense.

 

A lot of things in Star Wars don't make sense. Why single that one out?

 

I'm sure there's a creative retcon that would explain it. Something about photonic energy.

 

Episode IV: A New Hope
*Slightly rewrite the opening crawl so that it relates more to the events in ROTS. Mention clone troopers, Order 66, Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader, Mustafar, the Separatists, Dooku, the Jedi, the Sith, and Chancellor Palpatine.
*Add shots of Imperials bording the Tantive IV.
*Change some of the lighting.
*Add shots of Vader with lightsaber on the Tantive IV.
*More explosions on the Tantive IV.
*Change all blaster, lightsaber, and explosion effects.
*Clean up all the audio, replacing blaster and lightsaber sound effects with those from the PT.
*More digital-ness.
*Add completely new music to some scenes and in others just rerecord it to improve the quality.
*Replace Vader's entrace theme with Imperial March.
*Add a brighter glow to C-3PO's eyes.
*Make Stormtroopers on the Tantive IV clearly members of the 501st, perhaps have Temeura Morrison record their lines, and perhaps add blue markings.
*Have James Earl Jones rerecord Vader lines. Mention Bail Organa when speaking with Leia.
*Extend Tantive IV sequence. This can easily be done when the rebels and stormtroopers are all generic, and anyone can be in a Vader suit.
*Change Vader's suit to something more similar to in his other appearances.
*Reshoot some of the Tatooine scenes which do not involve Luke, Owen, and/or Beru.
*The Tatooine scenes are rather slow-paced. Add some scenes of Vader and other rebels or something.
*Add a battle droid the the Jawa droid sale.
*Add a new scene of Palpatine disbanding the Senate.
*Have the rebels mention Galen Marek.
*Use some TFU music.
*Give 3PO a more shiny look.
*Redo all holograms.
*Redo the Twin Suns. Make the Luke-staring-at-suns scene look more like the ending of ROTS.
*Shoot new shots of Tunisia; add the actors from the original footage to these shots.
*Animate the banthas.
*Animate shots of the Death Star.
*Film new scene of stormtroopers destroying the Homestead. Either that or include TROOPS.
*Give cantina music a slightly more techno/bar-style.
*Replace some of the aliens in the cantina.
*Remove the walrus man's blood.
*Replace the doctor's voice with someone else's.
*Change the lighting the cantina.
*Han shoots first.
*Improve animation for Jabba.
*Film new scene with Bail Organa on Alderaan. Make him look older with simple makeup.
*Redo the destruction of Alderaan sequence.
*Fix Luke's green lightsaber.
*Redo the dejarik players/pawns/whatever.
*Animate space shots.
*Add new scene of Rebels vs. Empire.
*Film new scene with Juno Eclipse and PROXY. Use the same TFU actor for Juno and the same voice actor for PROXY.
*Restore the Luke and Biggs scene.
*Completely redo Obi-Wan vs. Vader scene; make it more intense. This would be simple because Obi-Wan is hooded in this scene.
*Film/animate more rebel hangar shots.
*Completely redo Death Star attack. Films new shots of pilots.
*Show Vader's TIE Advanced crashing.
*Add a new scene just before the Yavin ceremony with Vader and the Emperor on Coruscant.
*Give Chewbacca a medal.
*PT music to use: Duel of the Fates (short cue), some notes from Battle of Heroes in new track for Vader vs. Obi-Wan, Across the Stars used once or twice for Luke, Imperial March used much more (not exactly PT, I know), some notes from The Tusken Camp/The Homestead for the discovery of Owen and Beru's fates.
*Film flashbacks of Order 66-surviving Jedi being hunted down.

More later.

 

That's rather....over the top, especially the TFU stuff.

 

Why do you say that? TFU music probably would be over the top, yes, but why not have Marek, the founder of the Rebellion, mentioned, and Juno and PROXY given cameos?

 

None of the crawls of the other films "relate more to the events" of the previous film. The crawls fill in the gaps between the films; they don't re-iterate the events of the last one. Because, you know, that would be boring and pointless.

There are already several shots of Imperial Stormtroopers and Darth Vader boarding the ship. Perhaps you blinked continuously for several minutes, and missed these?

No, no and no.

Rather than changing these, perhaps Lucas should consider restoring the original versions of the blaster and explosion effects, which were considerably brighter and more intense. I will agree that the lightsabers need tweaking in two places: On-board the Falcon and briefly during the Duel.

The audio has been cleaned up sufficiently. It's time to leave it alone. Since this is the original film, I would hope Lucas would consider replacing the PT sound effects with some more closely resembling those found in the original.

No, no, and are you kidding?

I lay awake at night praying to heaven above that C-3PO's eyes will be made brighter. My peace of mind depends upon it.

Horrifying and pointless.

Unnecessary and destructive to the pacing.

[sarcasm]Because people don't change their suits in the SW universe. Ever. Once they develop a look, they adhere to this design until the end, refusing to make any alterations or improvements. Darth Vader's suit is cast in iron, cannot be removed or altered in any way, and must look exactly the same in every episode.[/sarcasm]

Or, alternately, don't, since the above would be pointless and destructive to the pacing.

I have no problem with this, as long as it's subtle and does not scream "Hey look at me! I'm a Battle Droid like the one in those other movies! Get it? Huh? Do ya? Huh?"

Boring and pointless. Imagine this scene playing out. EMPEROR: "Imperial Senate, I'm disbanding you all. Go home!" SENATOR ORGANA: "But how will you keep the peace without the bureaucracy?" EMPEROR: "The regional governors will have direct control over their systems. Fear will keep your systems under control! Fear of my battle station!" Now cut to Tarkin on the DS, reiterating the scene we've just watched. Is that brilliant cinema, or wh

 

I don't know why you commented on every thing I said, but anyways...

You misunderstood me. What I meant was to add small additions which would better connect ANH to ROTS. For example, "Darth Vader, a Dark Lord of the Sith who was once known as Anakin Skywalker" and "Emperor Palpatine, previously the Supreme Chancellor". Etc. Nearly two decades have past, so this film needs it more than any other of the saga

I should have clarified: the shots being outside the ship.

Well, that's your opinion. Everything in the list is simply my own opinion of what should be done.

I completely disagree with that (restoring them, to clarify).

Disagreed.

No.

Once again, your own opinion.

Completely disagree here. This would be the best opportunity to show the Emperor in ANH.

The main character of The Force Unleashed.

I didn't say to give him a more shiny look just on Tatooine. Tantive IV and the Death Star would both be fine places for him to "shine".

Right. I think it's easy to see that someone's arm has been cut off without blood.

I haven't noticed that, but if so, then yes, that should be changed. Lightsabers cauterize wounds, FYI.

Please, make your own list of what they should and should not do rather than going through and criticizing mine as if your opinions are fact. Everyone has their own opinions. If you don't agree with my suggestions, that's fine, I have no problem with that. I'm not saying my suggestions should, absolutely, happen no matter what anyone else thinks. Discussion is fine, but frankly, your post seemed to come across more as bashing. It seems like you don't want anything to be changed in the special edition whatsoever, anyway.

 

Merlin could have phrased his responses to you a little better, but I don't think they were bashing. Let's just ensure that we're having a discussion here, like you said, and this doesn't resort to anything tense.

 

I disagree with pretty much every single change you suggested, but the biggest ones are:

- Why do you think it would be a good idea to reveal that Vader is Luke's father within the first 30 seconds of the first film? Just because we know the saga from beginning to end does not mean that there will never again be someone who is watching the movies for the first time.

- Palpatine has no place in A New Hope. Tarkin sums up the Emperor's involvement in 2 sentences.

- The Force Unleashed has no place in the saga at all.

 

Well, when someone says,

I take that as bashing. But anyways, I hope I'm not sounding rude and my apologies if I am. I don't want to make this an argument.

- It's embarrasing, but honestly, I forgot about that...lol.

- Why not? After seeing the rise of the Empire in the previous episode and Palpatine being a major player, I think it's important we see him in the next episode. We'd all be scratching our heads if the episodes were made in order and the Emperor hadn't appeared in ANH. It would also be a chance to show Bail Organa going to Alderaan if a shot of him just its destruction would seem awkward. It would add just as much emotional impact.

- Galen Marek really needs a mention because of how important a figure he is for the Rebels (some people thought it was a continuity problem that no one ever mentioned him in the OT), and Juno and PROXY are both part of the Alliance, so that they would be good for cameos. They add as much (or as little) to the story as the mention of Quinlan Vos, but they're nods to the EU, and EU fans (such as me) love it.

 

The Emperor is supposed to have shut himself off from the populace, using subordinates to carry out meaningless tasks like overseeing Senate meetings and stuff like that. If you have him go to the Senate just for that, it takes away from that mysterious Emperor quality.

They're only important retroactively. We shouldn't be throwing in stuff to the films ever time some EU author decides to come up with something or someone of importance to the rebels or the Empire.

 

I insist that EMP grenades be added to each film.

 

For something like the announcement of a few new policies, I would agree. For something as major as the dissolution of the Senate, I think he would announce it himself.

If Marek was some just some random rebel who was as important as others, yes, but Marek's sacrificed inspired the founding of the Rebellion. I don't think it's as necessary as something like restoring the Biggs at Anchorhead scene, but still, I think it would work well. TFU is also considered to be next chapter of the saga.

Agreed.

 

Well then, consider the storytelling problems in bringing the Emperor back in so soon, which does, in fact, go back to the whole "mysterious Emperor" thing anyway. By not showing him in A New Hope and only briefly mentioning him, you set up viewers to think "oh wow, where is this guy" and he becomes an even more mysterious figure. Then you get just a brief, creepy glimpse of him in Empire before finally seeing him again in Jedi. I think adding him into ANH ruins the mystique.

But you see, in terms of the films, Marek is just a random rebel, regardless of the overall canon storyline significance he might have. When changes are being made to the films they need to benefit the films themselves. If Lucas starts catering to the entire saga you're going to have four hours worth of in-jokes and continuity references that don't do anything to help the film along. If you add in some sort of mention of Marek because "he's important", you then have to take time to explain who was, what he did, and why he was important. That takes time and ruins the flow of a film. Besides, there's no good place to add in something like that.

 

Okay, apologies for the sarcasm. But I am entitled to express my opinion, and my opinion is that your list of changes to 'ANH' are 98% boring and pointless.

EDIT: To qualify that by taking one example, watching the Emperor disband the Senate when Tarkin tells us the Emperor just disbanded the Senate would be like watching paint dry. We get it: Emp disbanded Senate. Seeing his face, hearing his voice, just to satisfy your fannish fawning over the character spoils the mystique, the build-up to his full return in ROTJ. There is a facet of filmmaking known as "pacing" of which you appear to have little to no understanding.

 

He's really only a mysterious figure who you feel like you know nothing about if you consider the six movies to just be in separate trilogies and not one overall saga. When there was just the original trilogy, it worked really great not seeing the Emperor until ROTJ, but now, it doesn't really make sense when you watch them in order.

Certainly not, on your last point. But with the mention of Vos, it was done in such a way that they didn't need to take a while explaining who he was. If that kind of mention could be done with Marek, that would be great, IMO, but I will say that if there isn't an opportunity where they couldn't mention simply his name and make sense, it shouldn't be done.

Fair enough.

Well, that kind of happenedin TESB.

Also, the idea for having Vader and Palpatine briefly meet on Coruscant to discuss recent events came from a rumor that that scene had actually been filmed so that it would be included in a future ANH special edition. I don't know if that's true or not, but anyways...

 

Sorry for the double post. Hopefully this list won't generate as much arguing...

The Empire Strikes Back
*Give Vader the title of "Sith" in the opening crawl.
*Animate the beginning Star Destroyer shot and other space shots that need it.
*Animate the wampa in his/hers/its first scene, as well as a shot of it knocking Luke off the Tauntaun and dragging Luke through the snow.
*Restore the "Dead Tauntauns" scene to add a more menacing feeling to the Luke-captured situation.
*Restore bacta tank lines.
*Restore the wampa trap.
*Animate the tauntauns.
*Maybe rescore some of the music, but nothing major.
*Redo lightsaber and blaster effects.
*Make the Obi-Wan Force Ghost resemble Ewan McGregor more, and perhaps blend his and Alec Guiness's voices.
*Extend the Battle of Hoth via animation.
*Give PROXY a miss-if-you-blink-cameo on Hoth if it didn't work in ANH.
*Animate the asteroid field shots.
*Animate the space slug.
*Animate wide-view shots of Dagobah, as well as making the set used look larger.
*Perhaps animate Yoda. I like the puppet, but if animated, there's better continuity with the prequels. I personally think that Yoda should have only been animated in the PT when fighting.
*Add new shots of Yoda training Luke.
*Have Boba take off his helmet in the shot where he watches the Falcon take off.
*Animate Bespin.
*Have Vader say the name "Emperor Palpatine" once.
*Put the "bring my shuttle" line back in.
*Replace the line "I am your father" with the original "Obi-Wan killed your father". (kidding, lol)

 

I can't see why anybody would want to animate the Star Destroyers in that movie. What's wrong with them?

 

Arguing schmarguing. This is a discussion board. Now, on to the discussion:

That's actually kind of cool. Unnecessary, but cool.

Well, this one and the others don't need it. The point is that these ships are so massive that they feel like planets; their motion feels so slow and ponderous as to seem undetectable, even as they are zooming through space at 100 million miles an hour (or whatever rate applies).

The film is going for mystery at this point. A quick shot of its face, followed by a close-up on a massive arm, is all we want for now. Pacing, man. Build-up. Mystery.

You've actually missed the necessary fix here. In the shot of the creature's hairy arm, you can see the red-orange sleeve of the tech wearing the arm at the far left of the screen. Paint this over with a little white fur, and have done with it.

The Taun-taun is clearly being eaten by the wampa. There are bones strewn about the cave. Luke is hanging upside down by his ice-frozen ankles. Plenty of menace.

What?, Pacing!, and They're already animated by Mr. Phil Tippet and co.

Unnecessary and Unnecessarier.

Odd that you didn't suggest this for the living Kenobi in 'ANH'. Odd that you would suggest it at all, since MacGregor is doing a Guiness impersonation in the PT. Maybe Lucas should go back to the PT and make young Kenobi resemble Guiness more, and blend the voices? Perhaps replace MacGregor's entire performance with a digital Guiness lifted from Arsenic and Old Lace? One makes about as much sense as the other. Heavens.

Pacing, and Pointless.

The asteroids and Bespin are already animated, the first with stop-motion in 1979, the second with multiple CGI angles in 1996. Are you quite certain you've seen this film more than a single casual viewing? The Dagobah set looks huge and already features animated flying things. Yoda does not require animation since the CGI PT puppet was modeled on this one. No new training shots are required; any more would be superfluous and ruinous to the pacing, which is already spacious. Fett taking off his helmet? What in-universe purpose would that serve the character? It's a bit too wink-wink for me.

[sarcasm]Because otherwise the audience shall have no idea who he is.[/sarcasm]

I'm with you in this.

Yeah!!!! Or better yet, "O

 

The classy thing to do is start from scratch with the original version, pick the 10-15 worst shots and re-do them with great subtlety, mimicking the best of what was possible in the 70s, using the original soundtrack music as a guide so as not to disrupt the original pacing. If you have to cut up the music, don't do it. (The re-dos of the old star trek episodes don't do anything that can't "fit" along with the original audio.) If I've learned anything from life and Escape from L.A. (and I have), it's that too many facelifts NEVER works.

 

Some more changes:

- Digitally fix the Emperor's eyes in close-ups so they look closer to his ROTS eyes. They aren't yellow enough and the skin around them is too pink.

- Use CGI on the mouths of the speaking puppet characters to make the speech more believable. Maybe just Yoda.

- For one of the Degobah shots in either ESB or ROTJ, add Yoda's ship in the background, covered in moss and stuff... Not necessary, but it would definitely be cool.