Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

IIRC isn't it also the first time the story proper draws... literally any connection between Aragorn and Arwen, since she made the Gondor banner he unfurls? That scene was doing a lot of work.

Edit: Obviously there's the scene where he tells a bit of the story of Beren and Luthien but I don't think Arwen had so much as been named at that point.

 

If you could, how would you structure it?

 

Honestly the Tale of Years does most of the work for you.

Spoiler

Season 1
1. Bilbo hosts some visitors. Gandalf gives Thorin a gift.
2. The dwarves are attacked by trolls. Bilbo meets Estel. Gandalf attends a meeting.
3. The dwarves are captured by orcs. Bilbo plays a riddle-game.
4. Wargs trap the dwarves. Beorn makes breakfast. Galadriel musters her forces. Gollum searches for his ring.
5. The Company is captured by wood-elves. Saruman searches the Gladden Fields. Gandalf arrives at Dol Guldur.
6. Bard meets the dwarves. Bilbo vouches for Thorin. The Company arrives at the Mountain. Galadriel attacks Dol Guldur.
7. Bilbo meets Smaug. The people of Lake-town sleep. Gandalf follows Sauron into the east.
8. Bard moves his people to Dale. Bilbo considers his allegiances. Saruman looks into the palantír. Gollum enters Mordor.
9. Bard confronts Thorin. Bilbo flees the Mountain. Gandalf urges Thranduil to reconsider. Thorin makes a fateful decision. Gollum is captured by Sauron as he rebuilds Barad-dur.
10. The orcs of Moria attack. New kings emerge. The Istari reach a decision regarding the One Ring. Bilbo returns home. Estel meets Arwen in Lorien.

Season 2
1. Primula and Drogo go for a boat ride. Frodo steals some mushrooms. Gandalf and Bilbo enjoy a cup of tea. Gollum becomes acquainted with Shelob. The mysterious Thorongil is heralded in Dol Amroth. Brand pays homage to Dain.
2. Bilbo throws a long-expected party. Lobelia receives some spoons. Gandalf attends a meeting. Samwise gets promoted. Strider brings a gift to Thranduil.
3. Frodo receives ill news. Gandalf visits an old friend. Sam meets some elves. Lobelia buys a house. Balin enters Moria. Sauron attacks Osgiliath.
4. Halbarad and Arwen receive visitors. Frodo unmasks a conspiracy. Merry and Pippin get stuck. Saruman makes a discovery.
5. The Hobbits have strange dreams. Bombadil and Goldberry cook dinner. Gandalf jumps off a tower. Faramir tells his father of visions.
6. The Hobbits are captured by a Barrow-wight. Lady Idis grants Gandalf an audience with her King. Balin’s expedition is threatened. Boromir is dispatched to Rivendell.
7. Frodo sings a song. Merry goes for a walk. Gandalf steals a horse.
8. A stranger makes Frodo an offer. Barliman remembers what he forgot. Fredegar hears a knock on his door.
9. Gandalf convenes with the Rangers. Strider lights a fire. Arwen demands action.
10. Elrond sends out riders. Halbarad challenges Aragorn’s loyalty. Frodo crosses the Ford. Gollum escapes Mirkwood. Balin makes his final stand.

Season 3
1. Arathorn makes his final stand. Elrond tends to Frodo’s wound. Bilbo and Aragorn write poetry. Legolas and Gimli quarrel.
2. A stranger arrives with a riddle. The Free People decide what to do with the One Ring.
3. Bilbo gives Frodo presents. Elrond reforges the Blade That Was Broken. The Company of the Ring heads south. Saruman corrupts Grima.
4. Wargs attack the Fellowship. Gandalf cannot remember a password. Éowyn discourages Théodred.
5. Gandalf reads a book. The Fellowship cross a bridge.
6. The Company enters Lórien. Orcs attack the kingdom. Gollum catches up to Frodo. Aragorn remembers. Grima calls for war against Isengard.
7. The Company meet with Celeborn and Galadriel. Gandalf’s fight continues. Frodo looks into a mirror. Idis urges Théodred to reconsider. Galadriel makes a choice.
8. The Company cannot make a decision. Aragorn recalls simpler times. Saruman sends out his Uruk-Hai. Théoden makes a fateful decision.
9. Gollum continues his chase. Orcs attack the Company. Aragorn sees his ancestors. Rohan begins war against Isengard.
10. Frodo puts on the Ring. Boromir sounds his horn. Merry and Pippin run into trouble. Théodred rides to battle. Galadriel comes to her friend’s aid.

Season 4
1. Thengel returns from battle. The Three Hunters dart west. Merry and Pippin attempt to escape capture. Idis retreats to Edoras. Faramir finds a horn. Frodo and Sam discuss next steps.
2. Ugluk and Grishnakh argue. Éomer, against Théoden’s orders, sets out to pursue the orcs. The orcs give the hobbits some medicine. The Three Hunters cross a cliff. Frodo and Sam lose their way.
3. Éomer attacks. Merry and Pippin climb a tree. Frodo and Sam meet Gollum. The Three Hunters see an old man.
4. Treebeard shares his home. Aragorn meets Éomer. Denethor remembers his sons. Gollum finds the hobbits’ food distasteful.
5. The Three Hunters meet a familiar face. Treebeard takes Merry and Pippin to a meeting. Galadriel has messages for the Three Hunters. Gollum leads the hobbits into the Dead Marshes.
6. Gandalf comes to Edoras. Erkenbrand defeated at the Ford of Isen. Treebeard's meeting continues. Saruman convenes with his master. Idis retreats to Helm’s Deep. Frodo follows the lights. Imrahil and Lothiriel set off for Minas Tirith.
7. Merry and Pippin seek the aid of the Huorns. The Company defend Helm’s Deep. Arwen comes to Gilraen. Halbarad makes a fateful choice. A Ringwraith crosses over the Marshes. Denethor holds a council of war with Imrahil and Lothiriel.
8. Treebeard releases the river. Frodo and Sam reach the Black Gate. Théoden buries his dead. Sméagol and Deagol go fishing.
9. The company holds parlay with Saruman. Merry offers Saruman a pipe. Sam cooks some stew.
10. Pippin’s curiosity gets the best of him. The Ringbearers see the Morgul-host set forth.


Season 5
1. Isildur remembers the promise of the King of Dimholt. Éowyn meets a stranger at Dunharrow. Aragorn looks into the palantir. Elrond envies Arwen’s choice. Pippin swears fealty to Denethor.
2. Faramir retreats from Osgiliath. Pippin eavesdrops. Merry swears fealty to Théoden. Galadriel musters her troops.
3. Denethor hosts a council of war. Aragorn takes the Paths of the Dead. Gollum visits an old friend. Beregond is heard. Dernhelm brings Merry to war. Quickbeam defends Rohan.
4. Gollum leads Frodo into a tunnel. Faramir retreats to the Causeway Forts. Arwen sways Elrond from leaving. Aragorn drives the enemy to Pelargir. Dale and Brand build an alliance.
5. Frodo is captured by orcs. The Pelennor is overrun. Théoden meets new allies. Dernhelm and Merry blend in. Aragorn advances.
6. Sauron attacks Minas Tirith. Denethor spirals. Gandalf becomes a commander of war. Pippin becomes a soldier. Grond comes to the gates of the city.
7. Théoden arrives. Denethor burns oil.
8. Samwise enters a tower. Thranduil repeals Dol Guldur. Galadriel defends Lórien. Aragorn unwillingly enters Minas Tirith.
9. Éomer receives good news. Guests arrive in the city. Legolas sees a sign. Aragorn calls for a meeting.
10. Éowyn becomes acquainted with Faramir. Lothiriel counsels Gandalf. Frodo and Sam are overrun by orcs. The Company of the West make a fateful decision. The Enemy sieges Dale. Sauron receives a prize.

Season 6
1. The Host of the West marches from Gondor. Frodo and Sam hatch a plan. Treebeard releases a captive. Brand and Dain retreat to Erebor. Thranduil repeals the forces of Dol Guldur.
2. Aragorn dismisses the faint-hearted. Frodo and Sam escape. The Enemy enters Erebor. Galadriel and Celeborn defend Lórien.
3. The Host comes to the Desolation of the Morranon. Frodo and Sam climb.
4. Frodo puts on the Ring.
5. Kings are crowned in the North and South. Aragorn and Arwen are wed. Galadriel destroys Dol Guldur. Bill Ferny brings some changes to the Shire.
6. The Company departs Gondor. King Théoden is given a funeral. Thranduil and Celeborn drink wine.
7. The Company, ever-dwindling, visits Isengard, the Glittering Caves, and, at last, Rivendell. Bilbo writes his book.
8. Gandalf receives queer news at Bree. The hobbits are arrested.
9. Frodo learns who Sharkey is.
10. Frodo is taken ill. Samwise marries Rose. Frodo resigns office of Mayer. Samwise has children. Frodo comes to the Grey Havens and departs across the sea. Merry gets gifts from Éomer and Éowyn. Elessar rides to Evendim and reunites with Shirefolk. Sam’s wife dies. Sam also goes across the sea. Merry and Pippin see Éomer before he dies and ride to Gondor and live out their lives. Aragorn dies. Legolas builds a grey ship and, with Gimli, leaves Middle-earth with the last of the Fellowship of the Ring.

Cut out Season 1 if you don't want the Hobbit. I have long fantasized about how the finale of Six Feet Under could meet the finale of a Lord of the Rings TV show.

Some of this, especially anything with characters like Lothiriel or info taken from the Appendices, was taken from some brainstorming with someone else on a different forum, so this isn't all me, but in terms of structural decisions, those choices were made with 6 films in mind, not 6 seasons of a tv show.

 

Honestly, I find the hype around the series sort of lame and uninspired. The second age is wonderful, but I’m concerned Amazon will ruin it. Also, the silmarillion being discussed so casually, just feels wrong.

The silmarillion should be something esoteric, not something presented to the mass public, if it is-it is ruined. But I guess that’s just my elitism speaking.

Fact is, the second age really isn’t that interesting-nothing happens in the first thousand years or so in terms of drama that can be adapted. The wars of Eregion-don’t really work as something to base a story on. Only the downfall of numenor is something you can make an adaptation out of.

I expect it won’t even be the above, but original Shadows of Mordor tier fanfiction.

So, I’m unenthused.

 

Oh yeah the Amazon show is definitely Second Age fanfiction stuff

 

There's Aldarion and Erendis, of course. I presume they are going to focus on the forging of the Rings and the fall of Eregion, and the original war against Sauron with Numenor coming to the rescue.

Frankly, I'm more excited about the publication of The Nature of Middle-Earth, especially the essays about Numenor (which I had thought that Unfinished Tales had the entirety of Tolkien's writings about the land in the 2nd Age)

 

what are your Hobbit edits

 

I did the two film thing too, but it was more about restoring their two film construction as shot in principal photography. Only so far you can take that concept when the majority of Film 3 wasn't shot in principal photography.

 

Also keep in mind that the first film climaxed with the river barrel chase and Gandalf being ensnared in Dol Guldur, a challenging element to intercut, especially with all that Thrain stuff.

What I love about the two-film structure is how Smaug's death is the pivot around which the entire film revolves.

 

I'm a novice. Help?

The Hobbit's greatest strength is learning about that world with Bilbo. One weakness of PJ's trilogy was learning things before Bilbo does. The prologue comes to mind.

 

Without LOTR, it's super obvious that the Necromancer is Sauron, even if viewers have no idea who that is. The White Council scene is painfully obvious in that regard.

In the two film structure, the Beorn sequence was mainly used to show the battle of Azanulbizar. It really has no other reason for existing in the final films, since anything that Beorn had to do with the Necromancer was cut. I still kept Beorn in, though, mainly because of the conversation between him and Gandalf so that Gandalf leaving the company wouldn't come out of left field. I'm pretty sure I also completely cut the trees / eagles sequence.

But I would argue that getting the reveal of Sauron at the end of Film 1 is crucial and the ultimate cliffhanger. The whole Necromancer subplot works so much better with all the Radagast, White Council, Nazgul Tombs, and Dol Guldur stuff (up until Gandalf's capture) in the first film as written and filmed. The Galadriel, Elrond, and Saruman stuff also works great as something you cut to just before Bilbo meets Smaug.

My edit for Film 1 worked out to be 179 minutes, and Film 2 was 195 minutes.

With the TV show, I'm holding out hopes that it's a soft reboot of the entire franchise, with eventual spinoffs for LOTR proper.

 

Also just for the record it's totally possible to fit all the LOTR prequel stuff into a single 4 hr film that focuses almost entirely on Bilbo, Thorin, and Gandalf. That's actually my favorite edit I ever did.

The Tale of Years is a section of the appendices at the end of the published Lord of the Rings. It breaks down the entire chronology of Middle-earth in a way that almost looks like your typical premium TV episode synopsis. For example,

All of TTT and ROTK up until the destruction of the Ring take up about a month's time.

 

How is Beorn connected to Azanulbizar?
I didn't know Thorin lost a brother in that battle.

 

In their script Beorn’s house just happened to be where Balin originally told the tale of the battle, since they had just confronted Azog in the prior scene before the Eagles saved them. A lot of structural elements shifted when it became a trilogy.

 

I think that's a weakness of the LOTR films as well. (Sorry to chime in here out of nothing.)

 

Chime in, please.
I'm not sure I'd call it a weakness. I see it as apples and oranges. The Hobbit is about Bilbo, but The Lord of the Rings isn't about Sauron.

 

LOTR is about Frodo. What I meant is that in the novel, we find out everything along with Frodo. We the reader learn about the Ring and its history at the same time Frodo does (in the “Shadow of the past” and “Council of Elrond” chapters). The movies put all that stuff in the prologue, so we already know what the Ring is before Frodo does. I prefer the way the book does it.

 

I wouldn't say that LotR is about Frodo the way The Hobbit is about Bilbo. The Hobbit it is told basically from Bilbo's perspective. He is the focus, when he is knocked out in the battle, we see nothing else and just hear about it later. Very little happens with Bilbo not present. Smaugs death is one and learning about how Thorin got captured by the evles is another.
There are big parts of the LotR book that does not feature Frodo. Aragon and co, Merry and Pippin etc.

Second, a book can do stuff that a film can not and vice versa.
If you have no prologue at all, then Gollum has not been set up, nor has the Ring.
If you simply start the film with Bilbo writing then all the stuff about the Ring has no context, we know nothing of it.
Also doing a long exposition dump in the middle of a film is much harder to pull off than one at the start.
The risk would be making both the Frodo/Gandalf scene in bag End very long and it since some of the stuff was in the Council of Elrond, that scene might get too long as well.

I like the book a lot and the council is a scene that I really liked in the book. But it would not work if you film it as is.
So a prologue makes sense and is logical.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

There’s pros and cons. I think the FOTR film prologue is one of the greatest achievements of the film trilogy - in seven minutes, you basically know the plot and stakes of the next 11 hrs- and what the Ring is capable of, before ever meeting the main characters. It’s a pretty smart move for a blockbuster and pretty beautifully rendered. Opening in the Shire- and basically presenting your story as almost something as a Jane Austen comedy but with hobbits- would certainly have been much bolder, and they did try it that way.

 

It's insane to me that they didn't go into it knowing they'd need to do a prologue, when I heard that that was added later it really blew me away. It's so well done, and as Bacon said so elegantly delivers everything you need to know in a way that keeps it epic, but only what you need know to get the stakes of the story.