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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series Order 66 series

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by RATHERBEPLAYINDS, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Lucas's opinion really is really of little value to the film makers at this point. They didn't even use any of his ideas for TFA.
     
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  2. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Lucas also flip flops on his views.

    The stormtroopers are a mix of clones and draftees, oh wait no, they are volunteers.

    Wookiees can't be Jedi, on second thought...

    I regret killing off Maul, let's give him a brother. Nah, lets just bring Maul back himself.

    Only Jedi can Force ghost. On second thought, give me a couple Sith Lords to appear as ghosts on Mortis. Err... I changed my mind, I don't think Sith should be ghosts.

    There's no story after Episode VI, Episode VII was just joke, but I wrote a treatment for Episode VII.

    To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but let's have Maul do it too, chronologically before Palpatine made that statement, and let's make Palpatine not care.

    Etc.

    Lucas allegedly insisted Ahsoka die by the end of TCW. But then more recently I believe there was an interview where Filoni mentions developing ideas with Lucas for what Ahsoka's life would be like post-ROTS, right before Lucas sold the company. So it seems like her surviving got Lucas' blessing in the end.

    Who knows where he stands on the issue of Order 66. He could have changed his mind 10 different times since that tcw arc was completed.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Filoni persuaded Lucas to let Ahsoka live, that's how that played out, but otherwise...yeah. Lucas is very whimsical. He changes his mind a lot just for the hell of it.
     
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  4. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/28/a...-rebels-emulates-the-trilogy-of-old.html?_r=0
     
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  5. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    The biochips don't contradict continuity, it's just IMO they are completely unnecessary. If you've already sold me on the idea that an army of 10 year old clones will go fight and die for a government that they never lived under just because they were told to, no further explanation is required to justify why they would should the Jedi upon being commanded.

    I will say though, the ONE thing that was peculiar about the Order 66 sequence in ROTS that the Biochip explanation does answer, is the automated "it will be done my Lord" response by the clones, since Palpatine was never addressed as such prior to that.

    However, I don't think that was the impetus behind the biochip plotline. As anakinfansince1983 has said, I think it's just because Filoni wanted to create a disconnect so that the good clones were victims and not responsible for their actions. It was a casualty of developing these stories in a kids show and not wanting to disturb the kids, I'm guessing. Same with Ahsoka's survival. Prior to Sabine and Hera, she was like the only mainstream Star Wars hero outside of Leia and Padme, with the latter dying a pathetic death (and IMO a boring character). Ahsoka, as the only main female Jedi and one of only three core female characters, was probably too important as a link to young girls to kill off. So I do think there was a thought process behind it, that characters like Rex shooting Jedi just because they were told to might not sit well with kids.

    IMO there would have been something much more darker, and appropriately so, had the clones known full well what they were doing but didn't care. Like I said, that was a moment to highlight the moral decay of the Republic. The Jedi were being gunned down based on a lie, the Senate was applauding Palpatine's proclamation that the Jedi would be hunted down, people like Yularen and Tarkin went along with it and didn't need to be biochipped into compliance, but for some reason the clones needed to be? The clones have been retroactively made to be good people that had no choice but to shoot the Jedi, when they could have been another cog in the machine that had turned against the Jedi.
     
  6. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2015
    So Lucas was just like Filoni?

    Seriously George?

    Sigh...



    [​IMG]
    You were suppose to create new stories within the established timeline.....not destroy it!
     
  7. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    I don't see the problem with a spin off movie showing what happened to certain clones and Jedi during Order 66. This could showcase what happened to Ashoka, Rex, and other survivors like Master Unduli, etc.
     
  8. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Omg, this was so funny, was laughing for ages!!

    Very very well said. It was completely unnecessary. I agree that what we saw in the films and what needed to be built upon was the moral decay of the Republic. "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." How did we get to that point?

    The Jedi were indeed betrayed and killed based on a lie, the Republic fought a war and fell based on a lie. The people, from the leaders, to those on starships to ordinary citizens in the galaxy participated in this decline. Palpatine was elected and they supported him all the way. The clones indeed should have been shown as you suggest - e.g. maybe the Jedi Generals are the ones holding them back and they are "cut loose" after the formation of the Empire and become the totally ruthless Clone Stormtroopers.

    I saw no need to make them good people who themselves were betrayed. After all as you said, they were bred for war and total obedience. It is a shame, whilst I do agree to try and broaden the audience, I don't think kids like Star Wars for this type of stuff - trying to make everyone good and have heroes. If so, then individual clones or specific ARC troopers who maybe have some separate training can be all right, but not every single clone. Trying to personalize and individualize every trooper is a bit too far. I agree with your points. The clones were loyal to the Republic. Many were friends with and respected their Jedi Generals, but if the order was given by the higher authority, they would not hesitate.
     
  9. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Not surprised by the remarks from George.

    I recall a Q&A, where Filoni was asked about certain aspects of TCW and why it seemed to contradict/alter perceptions about the PT. To paraphrase his answer, our friend Dave said he needed to "address" certain areas i.e "George ****** up and I had to fix it".

    Prime example: sifo-dyas

    You can find it on the Star Wars Youtube channel. Filoni talks about the cluster**** George left them.
     
  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    If you come across that video let me know, sounds interesting and maybe that plus that article quote I posted could put some of the justified complaints to rest(not likely lol): But yeah, would be interesting.
     
  11. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012


    Comes across as George kinda left him in a hole.

    I'll found the other video where he 'diplomatically' discusses how George would leave things open ended or randomly keep changing stuff over and over - without thinking about potential consequences. As we all know, it was Filoni who had concerns about Revan and Bane appearing in Mortis due to continuity issues surrounding the Sith and Force ghosts.
     
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  12. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Yea, see if you can locate the other video when you can.
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Filoni is not the first person involved with Star Wars to make those comments about Lucas. Can't say I'm surprised.
     
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  14. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014

    Wait when did this happen?
     
  15. Chris_Fives

    Chris_Fives Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Chip was implanted in clones to make them more docile and less independent.
    it also had some core orders implemented in it and Tup's chip malfunctioned killing the Jedi prematurely.
    For me it all makes sense and is a good explanation.

    Hopefully Rex's story in Rebels will give us some more details about it as well.
     
  16. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    The Lost Missions Q&A are worth exploring, too. Especially the Yoda arc; according to Filoni, Lucas basically wanted a 'Force planet', which was pretty much home to the midichlorians. No explanation, or hints how it 'fit in' to the Star Wars universe. Just make an episode about it. He wasn't even given access to George's original notes and ideas on the Force and what it is.
     
  17. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014


    Seems TCW was going Star Trekish, Filoni I think even compared to Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. I think the Vong episode would've been like a Star Trek episode/movie, the Mortis arc was as well. George seemed to like Trek and I think he did acklowldge how Star Trek influenced him and helped even get the Star Wars movie made.

    http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/george-lucas/151192/george-lucas-on-how-star-trek-helped-star-wars
     
  18. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Exactly, for good reason!! Stick to the great films!


    At the end of the day, there were some great stories. But overall the films take precedent in terms of canon. They are Star Wars, the others are additions and hopefully they contribute and build upon the fillms, not contradict them. There is no biochip in AOTC or ROTS and they are so clever in the story of the clones and Jedi betrayal. There were some good CW episodes, but don't cheapen things to be ott. That's like doing a Jar Jar for everything!

    Order 66 is an order, not a chip! The order has to be given by the Commander in Chief whoever that may be. If Bail had been Chancellor and given the order, troopers would obey it whether they like it or not, since clone troopers free will was limited - as mentioned in AOTC, they were totally obedient and only different from droids in their ability to think creatively to fulfill those orders.
     
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  19. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    It would've been interesting to see how Palpatine uses the clones after the rise of the Empire. Now that the Jedi are eliminated, there have to be a lot of individuals who are not happy with the creation of the Empire. It becomes well known how Palpatine, one man who controls the clone army uses it to silence opposition and maintain control. We could see how the galaxy gravels in fear of the Emperor using the clone army for his own purposes. Perhaps the clone army is used for show of force purposes to strike fear in anyone who desires to resist the Empire.
     
  20. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I would've imagined he kept the Clones in production atleast to guard Coruscant and some other key Imperial planets or installations that would be personal to Sidious and his inner circle- or simply in reserve and/or in status or something to be activated at some later point. Bad Batch style Clones would be very useful for him so I can't really imagine him doing away with Kamino and its resources & during this stage am thinking Kamino is Imperialized like in TFU II. It is doubtful there is still many Jango clones around on active duty unless they're still being bred. I would imagine the Empire probably rounded them up and dumped them on some desolate world to die off.
     
  21. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    Why is that? If biochips didn't exist then there would be no reason to dump the Empire's best soldiers. Are you suggesting that every clone resented killing the Jedi?
    So, you want to see the 501st in action?
     
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  22. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    We already know they're aging and most are no longer fit for front line duty some 5-15 years after ROTS and they've largely been replaced by enlisted or conscripted soldiers shortly after the birth of the Empire. They'd have to get rid of them otherwise they'd have a bunch've old bodies taking up resources. So they have to go somewhere either a dumping ground as I suggested or they're being systematically terminated.

    The biochip's only purpose was to make sure they turn on the Jedi, whom the Jedi birthed the ideas of individuality in them and self awareness and of the greater power of the universe than the Republic, the Force and their place in it . Yoda made that clear in the first episodes of TCW series. Jedi made the Clones more effective as they were their field commanders and also spiritual and moral compasses.
     
  23. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    I'd like to think that the clones are in veteran homes somewhere.
    So you are suggesting that the clones resented killing the Jedi. You could've just said so. The Jedi would've made the clones more effective if they were better strategists. The problem is that the clones were given too much of an emotional attachment to the Jedi in TCW so that the chips became necessary for the clones to appear good still. The only ones I would imagine would have emotional attachments would be the commanders, not your average infantryman.
     
  24. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    In-universe the biochip was there to serve the purpose to ensure they turn on the Jedi and kill them when the time was right once Palpatine gave the order, the other reason for the audience I stated earlier in the thread.


    It is very doubtful the Empire gives a damn about Clones as they do not really even care too much about their own regular soldiers, let alone to supply past their service expiration date,. Likely once they were activated they should revert back to their original programming and be just glad to have served like they were originally intended, plus they'd be without the morality of the Jedi there and under the command of ruthless and psychotic military officers that would likely view them as product , slave soldiers and grunts whatever.

    If there is new Clones, they'd be completely Imperial. Palpatine's Shock Troopers seem to have had different programming to serve him personally, other Clones seem standard issue, how many survived the actual war and lived to their advanced age would be retired by now some 15 years into the Empire. Probably also the idea of chip removable or damage would've made the Clones unreliable, and those that served under the Jedi would be a liability risk as they could revert back or become unstable due to the confliction of duties and their actions. Being forced to do things that was against their morals could've created something akin to PTSD or worse since their clone lifeforms created in a lab and already suffer from certain genetic degenerations that effect their bodies(including problems associated with aging of the brains). We do not know the side effects of the biochip, let alone the side effects of removable completely, Tup and Fives seems to indicate it would a problem, Rex, Wolff and Gregor we don't know too much about nor when they removed their chips - and side effects could vary on a case by case basis.
     
  25. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    No one is disputing this.
    There is not a shred of evidence in new or old EU that supports this.
    As I stated, they tried too much to make the clones good, when they later do something evil. It would have been better if the clones were grittier. I also don't think the Jedi were as good for the clones as you make it out, but that is just my opinion.
     
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