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Full Series Order 66 series

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by RATHERBEPLAYINDS, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Clones would understand what an order is, of course they would. They're trained. There is an executive order. Clones follow orders. Once it was authenticated as coming from the Chancellor, that's it. The lower clones obey the commander. The commander would only issue an order from a superior. Throughout the series we even see Jedi issue orders to commanders who pass it on to the men.

    At the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, you can clearly see when Bail meets them, it is not a trance. They are carrying out a mission to kill the Jedi at the Temple. QED!

    PRECISELY!!! Well said.

    The clones behaved better than stormtroopers purely because of ethical Jedi Generals. When they're gone, clones will be ruthless and follow their new superiors.
     
  2. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 15, 2015
    "They have been engineered to take any order without question." -Lamu Su from AOTC

    Yet we see: Betrayal on Christophis, desertion on Salecami, and unwilling to follow orders on Umbara, all by low ranking Clone troopers.

    They can't even follow the movies.
     
  3. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    And the new comic Kanan has a clone grunt deciding that the other clones are wrong and shooting them!
     
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  4. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 15, 2015
    Sigh.......

    It's like all these shows now are about making sure Ahsoka and the Clones are not seen in a negative light.
     
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  5. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview-Teh Mole Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    You can always look at things in a negative light.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Not his point. As I just said in another thread--story consistency has been sacrificed in favor of ensuring that Ahsoka and the clones are not seen in a negative light.
     
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  7. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 22, 2015
    *shrug* Some people just like the idea that the Jedi arent the only good guys in the galaxy I guess. Thats sort of why I'm glad the EU is gone is retrospect. Now that I'm out of my moody teenage phase, I've recognized that the EU really started to warp the universe into this grim dark monster to satisfy the trend set by warhammer & such in sci-fi literature.
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I never thought the Jedi were the only good guys. Several Senators were on the side of the good.

    And it is possible to add more good guys to the galaxy without changing the perspective that the movies gave us.

    In fact, in some ways TCW missed opportunities to do this. It could have portrayed pacifists as people who looked for peaceful solutions to the conflict so that war could be stopped or avoided, as opposed to portraying them as people who are too "principled" to stand up for themselves but have no problem accepting defense from someone else.

    It also could have portrayed the Kaminoans as beings who cloned for a living, whose cloning efforts in the past have been for good (cloning replacement limbs and organs for people who need them, for example). While they would not have been full-blown "good guys" because there is no way to avoid the creepy implications of cloning entire humans, especially for an army, there was also no need to make them fully aware and complicit in the fact that they were working for a Sith Lord.

    There was also no need to have Krell work for Dooku. He could have just been a war-weary, angry soldier who didn't like clones.

    Some people talk about TCW being "deep" in its themes but it was really pretty shallow. Characters either loved Ahsoka and the clones, or they were "bad guys."
     
  9. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    Agreed. It was way too pure good or pure evil. I don't think the CIS would win based on some evil plan to poison the population of a planet. They would have won sometimes out of genuine support against the Republic, the Jedi or corruption. They might also win based on superior numbers. The CIS seemed like a joke as it seemed to lose nearly all the time, even though this war is meant to last for years.

    And we didn't see the hint of the Empire to come in the Republic. We could have - e.g. Cham Syndulla saying "How long before I am fighting you, Master Jedi?" Not to mention we didn't really see that many Jedi...in the age of the Jedi...when they are Generals in a war. The whole war effort isn't based on just 4 Jedi, one of which is a Padawan.

    There are meant to be hundreds of Masters, thousands of Knights, etc commanding troops and fighting. Some are successful, others are not. One way they could have done this was to have other Jedi sacrificing themselves (like Master Di) or fighting Grievous or Dooku - so that the fights in ROTS are unique. Obi Wan shouldn't meet Grievous every week and Anakin should not encounter Dooku every day either.

    And there should be a demonstration that the clones often only act ethically owing to Jedi oversight, otherwise they are just as ruthless as stormtroopers.

    It would be good to see more Senators for and against the war, Palpatine, etc. Not to mention Dooku being more slick and suave like he was in AOTC to woo planets, rather than purely threatening them. Dooku was meant to be the symbolic and inspirational face of the CIS - the good poster boy whilst Grievous was meant to be the cowardly or evil one. We should have seen a more grey area to represent the ROTS line that Good and Evil were on both sides.

    We could have seen more Jedi who were good - more female Jedi like Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, Adia Gallia, Stass Alie etc taking the lead. Especially Jedi of Anakin's generation to show us their behavior compared to his in terms of the war as well as attachment. We could have seen some Jedi who felt more like Anakin, that they needed to be more decisive and less dependent on the Senate to finish the war.

    We could have seen the CIS actually being the good guys in a few episodes. And some Jedi who didn't like the clones or the war, without being overt CIS supporters.
     
  10. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 15, 2015
    ^TCW is not the show you're looking for......
     
  11. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview-Teh Mole Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I know it's not his point but I was just saying you could.
     
  12. Kualan

    Kualan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2008

    Agree with most of these points, apart from the Kaminoans. I didn't get the impression that they were knowingly working for a Sith Lord - from their dialogue ("These Jedi are a curious cult..." or some such) I took away that they thought 'Tyranus' was one of the Order who wanted safeguards against rogue members of his organisation. Hence Dooku doing his best Sidious impression when contacting them.

    I took them to be morally apathetic characters (rather than outright evil) who as a species lack the same brand of ethics as the Republic. Though I have to admit my perception may be coloured from reading their portrayal in the Darth Plagueis novel.
     
  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview-Teh Mole Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Although nothing in the movies said they did any cloning for good

    And I see why they kept the EU characterization of the Kaminoians.
     
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  14. Fallen Jedi Master

    Fallen Jedi Master Jedi Knight star 4

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    Apr 13, 2017
    l like rex's arc, dude just accepted it order 66 is a chip and clones having character arcs is a good thing. God you and others just cried every day
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  15. ChefCurryWindu

    ChefCurryWindu Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 18, 2015
    For me, I prefer the original explanation that the clones were genetically modified to obey any order. Never like the inhibitor chip plot.

    Also , where exactly did George Lucas say that he didn't like the clones having biochips? That's interesting to hear.
     
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  16. whostheBossk

    whostheBossk Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    It was partly GLs decision to have the chips so I'd say that's not true that he didn't like it.

    This is all based on TCW show allowing us to see how the Jedi worked along the Clones for three years helping them understand normal human behavior. Thus allowing them to learn to love a little and not accept an order to destroy the Jedi. This is where I think the chips came in whether we like it or not, they affected all the clones that had a chip or you could say some chips didn't work and those clones joined the Rebellion or stayed true to the order despite it.
     
  17. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Maybe inhibitor chips aren't the most creative thing and seem like an easy way to get around how the clones would turn on their pals the Jedi after 7 seasons building them up as heroic, independent individuals who aren't programmed. As more than their training. Remember that slapping D-Squad episode "A Sunny Day in a Void" where Wac-47 actually questions the difference between training and programming? That was the season 5 clone arc.

    But they make total sense in-universe from Palpatine's perspective to ensure the clones carried out their final intended purpose in the long run. What if Palpatine left it to chance? Do you think order 66 would have succeeded with neer 100% execution of Jedi without them?


    The Kaminoans lampshaded it to Dooku on the subject of why a cIone was able to go rogue. I think he always counted on the Jedi to encourage creativity and individuality in the clones. The Jedi after all were already compromising to lead an army of men purposely bred to die in the war as generals. They played a part in how Palpatine scapegoated the Jedi for not just dragging out the war and requiring more of these expensive clones. Coruscant couldn't even afford to keep the lights on a lot of the time according to "Pursuit of Peace". Citizens even believed they started the war. This was so thorough even Ahsoka bought into it going into SoM. One of those little things easily overlooked in Ahsoka's walkabout arc is that perfective into what the average person thinks the Jedi should be.

    Order 66 arc has never been my favorite clone arc even featuring Fives. It's just doomed from the start. It's interesting from the perspective of watching Tup suffer a defect. Then Fives long journey trying to uncover the secret of what was in Tup's head. To the point of offering up his own body... err head for the sake of his brothers. Fives was just trying to be a good soldier. I think Palpatine did tell him a version of the truth and the truth was so insane no one would believe it. Much less from a drugged-up clone. By the time Anakin and Rex got to him, he was no longer coherent. Rex apparently didn't figure out what Fives tried to warn him about until he got the Holo to "Execute Order 66" and the chip was manipulating him to turn his blasters on Ahsoka.

    It is arguably a dumb decision the Council made to just play Sidious's game when they pieced together Tyrannus and Dooku were synonyms. The Clone Army was created by their enemy. But the audience had more information than the Jedi did in-universe. Even then I think the actual function of Order 66 arc and "The Lost One" is supposed to tie things together for the audience and do some world-building within The Clone Wars. The function of the inhibitor chips was swept under the rug. The only two men who could have made any inference from the Sifo-Dyas mission were Anakin and Rex. Palpatine gave him and the rest of the council parasites as the reason for Fives' malfunction. A reason which probably stuck with Anakin more as he had nightmares about his wife dying. How strong does Anakin have to be to save Padme if he couldn't save Fives from a parasite and the worse death in the franchise? The arc trooper died in shiny armor and only manages to save Rex and Ahsoka. No one would have listened to Rex. The holo-diary Ahsoka views in "Shattered" shows that much.

    The Bad Batch has since shown that some clones would have followed through with Order 66 without the inhibitor chip. Crosshair happily became Ramparts' dragon. Then we got cases like Howzer where the chip seems to have worn off. Howzer was even able to move some of his men to his side.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2022