--<-@ Over 30 SW Writers Club! @->--

The Witching Hour?

Don't get me wrong, I loved that book, but wasn't it totally full of incest?

BTW:

POST 100!

 

Not to derail the discussion or anything, but here's a thought:

We all know there are many and varied disadvantages to growing older, but would anyone like to talk about what some of the advantages are? For me, I think it's the relief that I never have to be a teenager again. I've gradually learned not to be so insecure about so many little things.

 

I'm not killing this thread, am I?

*watches it sputter and die like a Tauntaun on Hoth*

Oh.

Sorry.

*slinks away*

 

Hi Jane Jinn,

I think the advantages have outweighed the disadvantages. I swear now that I'm older I'm better now than I was in my 20's. I'm more confident, more secure finacially, so that means less worries. I'm less tired too because I'm not chasing after toddlers. They are old enough to do lots for themselves. While not everything is great, the things I still worry about haven't changed since I was younger, but at least some aspects of life are better. Now if only there was some good music out there.

 

The advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages. Physically I feel as good or better than I have at any time in my life, I have my own money and a good job (it's on shaky ground at the moment, but I have several good skill sets, so I'm not really all that worried). I'm more confident and have enough faith in my own judgement and opinions that I don't feel threatened by the opinions of others. My kids are old enough to start expanding their own horizons, and that's very satisfying to watch.

I've often wondered what the true definition of "adulthood" is. For me, I think it was when I realized that what I think of other people is more important to me than what they think of me. A better sense of security of where I fit into the grand scheme of things, I guess. Of course, that could all be derailed as I head full-bore into a mid-life crisis and revert to wanting fast cars and good-looking pool boys.

 

I don't think anyone could pay me enough to be a teenager again.

I do wish I could go back to college and maybe do things differently... but I don't know. I prefer being an adult- I've learned to not really stress over things that don't really matter.

Of course, that could all be derailed as I head full-bore into a mid-life crisis and revert to wanting fast cars and good-looking pool boys

Hummm... methinks you have one particular Pool boy in mind

 

Wow! I'm gone for 24 hours and look how much I have to catch up on...

Wonder Woman: Forgot to mention, my best friend also had WW Underroos and we used to run around with our jump ropes trying to lasso my brother and make him tell the truth.

Kool-aid: My mom always bought the no-name brand or store brand stuff (4 kids and limited income), so ours never tasted right. Occasionally, we'd get the real stuff and bounce off the walls for hours.

Hippies: Mom grew up sheltered Catholic school girl, so no. Dad has admitted to me smoked some pot and dropped some acid. It was kinda weird... we were sitting in the car one day while I was in high school and the subject of drugs came up. My parents were pretty cool and never gave me a boring lecture. Dad just told me about the guys he used to know who were wasted all the time, then he mentions out of the blue that he's glad he doesn't have flashbacks like some of his old buddies.

Dr. Who!!!!!! My dad and my older sister were HUGE fans. I was too and Dad let me stay up late on Saturdays to watch it with them. We all went to the Dr. Who convention once in New Orleans. That was completely cool! There was a big contest/scavenger hunt going on for prizes. Everyone had to find the signs that said "whatever of Rassallon" My dad made up some fake signs and we put them all over. The contest people weren't happy to see "Karen (our friend) of Rassallon, water fountain of Rassallon, potted plant of Rassallon, etc." on their lists.

North and South: My second cousin was an extra in that one. My mom's family is from the area where it was filmed. We were having a family reunion and I remember everyone talking about how Scotty was in a movie. My older brother, sister and cousins actually went down to the set.

V: I remember trying to watch it once, but the only part I saw was the woman giving birth to the alien baby and it freaked me out, so no watchy for me.


Did anybody watch the Geraldo Rivera Al Capone special? I did. All I remember thinking during the whole thing was 'I wanna watch Bloopers and Practical Jokes', then he didn't find anything.

inez

p.s. As far as adulthood goes...I'm still trying to figure it out, while not having to give up my youth or take on more responsibility.

 

Now if only there was some good music out there.

Have you ever tried music from the Middle Ages or the Renaissance era? The dance tunes, for instance, are very spritely and often make me wish I could join in.

For me, I think it was when I realized that what I think of other people is more important to me than what they think of me. That's the best definition of adulthood I've ever heard, especially as it has nothing to do with age.

 

Hmmm. I keep feeling like I'm behind (not married, no kids, early career--spent my twenties writing and resisting the idea of going to grad school and working temp jobs rather than establishing myself--forced to live with a roommie because of high rents), so I feel like I'm in my early twenties instead of early thirties, except that I have to play hurry-up on several biologically-based things that don't care that I was resisting grad school, which kinda stinks.

Other than that, though, I'm enjoying being financially stable, free to go out and do whatever I feel like whenever I feel like it, and to study whatever it crosses my mind to study. I wouldn't mind a re-do on my own teenage life, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a teenager these days. I work with them all day, and they're overscheduled, overassigned to the point of not caring a whit about what they're doing for school, and soaked in a brine of violence and meanness that would have made the most cynical 80s teen I ever met look like Nancy Reagan. And for some reason, they seem to feel a lot less free to make their own decisions than we did--maybe it's the generational thing mentioned in the Barney article I linked to earlier, or maybe it's the fact that their "free" time is largely filled with scheduled and organized activities, but I've lost count of the number of times I've had to teach kids how to pick a subject that interests them. I remember that on the occasions when we were given free rein to pick subjects, the whole attitude my friends and I had was basically, "Wow, there are so many things! What do I want to shock my teacher with today?" But I get kids coming in with these assignments--"Choose a topic" or even "choose a topic in literature/history/whatever"--who are completely freaked out. "What does my teacher want? She didn't say!" So I look at the assignment and try to see what the parameters are, and then try to find out what the student is interested in in real life, and how that intersects with the parameters. Pretty good successes so far (my favorite was a boy last week with a 19th century literature assignment who said his interest was in "something short"--we took it from there to a study about Poe and the short story, and went out absolutely piled with large, thick books that he was peeking into on the way out because he couldn't wait to get back to the stories and poems), but there is often genuine panic when they come in, and sometimes total lack of understanding when I start trying to ask them about their interests. ("This is an assignment," one of said, cutting me off with an impatient head-shake. "I'm not interested in it.") Very much not what I remember of being a teen.

 

It's even worse than you make it out to be JG. I teach at the local university. Accounting is not the most fascinating subject, but it has paid the bills for 30 years. Anyway, I find that students are being forced to make life choice at 20 years old these days. They simply are not ready. More than that, the pressure to succeed is enormous. I cannot understand why we make kids (for that is what they are) do that.

I had a student in my office crying over the fact that she did not do as well in her mid-term as she felt she ought to. She was disconsolate. For heaven's sake. It is just one course. Not life and death., But she was so pressured by her family to do well that she could see no other route.

And your observation about learning is correct. Everything is just an obstacle on the road to the goal. Don't try to TEACH me anything. I already know what I have to know.

Sad.

As for being older, it does have its advantages --- financial, emotional and intellectual. I quit my job last fall after 21 years to strike out on my own. It has been a rather challenging 5 months, but I am now up to speed. And I am SO happy. Working cause I want to -- not because I have to is the way to go.

 

I don't teach, but I've seen what you're talking about. The high school girl who baby-sits for us is taking a full load of AP and IB classes, and she always shows up with a backpack that weighs as much as she does. She always looks stressed out and is worried that a "C" on a quiz is going to keep her from getting into the college she wants to go to. Most adults I know are less stressed than this young lady.

I hear a lot of people say, "If only I could be 18 (or 21 or whatever age) again, and know what I know now." But what fun would that be? Most of what makes you young are your attitudes about things, so why would you want to be 20 years old with the life experience and outlook of a 40 or 50 year old? Half the magic of being young is discovering all the things that you haven't experienced yet. God, I would hate to be so jaded at such a young age.

Hummm... methinks you have one particular Pool boy in mind

Something else that keeps one young.

 

Perhaps what people are really wishing for is the body of a 20-year-old, one that hasn't started experiencing middle age yet (and never will.)

 

No... I don't mind the grey hairs (I like to think of them as battle scars... besides.. Miss Clairiol takes care of them nicely! : ) I don't have a lot of lines (take that dry skinned teenagers!)...


But as Indy would say.. it's not the years, it's the milage....

 

I don't teach (except in the casual, everyday kind of sense); I'm a librarian.

Even in the kids who aren't being madly pressured to succeed beyond their parents wildest dreams, there is just an overload. Science fairs, when I was a kid, were fun things that you did for extra credit. Lab projects were done in class every few weeks, like any other homework assignment... no real pressure. Now, major science projects are required and very little guidance is given about what to choose or how to do them. They get completely loaded down with assigned summer reading, so with the exception of a few cult books (the HPs, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, the Louise Rennison books, and, in some circles, Omar Tyree), they don't have as much time as they need to read for the heck of it. And hobbies? Fuhgeddaboutit.

And on top of it, they still aren't learning things they need to learn, which is the real kicker. No one seems to give them a basic timeline of history, or those blank maps to fill in with the names of countries and geographical features (not that I could do that anymore!). Just basic stuff that isn't there. We instituted a state exam, mandatory as of this year, and that's starting to correct itself, but I feel so bad for them, being buried with homework and still getting slapped with "Why don't you know that battles of the Revolutionary War were fought around the city you're standing in?"

It sounds like I don't like the kids, but that's not true--I adore them, and wouldn't leave my job for anything. Most of the ones I see are nice, and bright. The whole "mean" culture is an affectation, and I know it well. I just feel like they're living in the spin cycle and I'm glad I'm not there with them.

 

I understand what you mean, JG. I see it already with my 4th grader, who has a book report project due every two weeks. He rushes through the books and does the minimum required on the project because he's trying to keep up with spelling, geography, Wordly Wise, and two different math books. He doesn't get anything out of the projects other than a sense of being rushed. I'd like to see fewer projects with more depth of understanding. I had a conference with his teacher and her major suggestion was to make him drop out of his only outside activity - playing soccer, which he does twice a week. Her feeling was the he had to "measure up" and anything that he was doing besides school was a waste of time.

 

Orson Scott Card, who says some fairly strange things about some matters but some fairly smart things about other matters, did an article on the homework issue.

Anyway, to get back to the 30something thing...

The changes haven't tended to be age related--more related to switching from running around campus all day to sitting at a computer terminal all day. A few white hairs don't bother me, though if I catch them, I'll tweeze them (my gram's 84 this year and still has some brown hair, so I'm not too worried). There are a couple of lines around my eyes, but they mostly go away with lovely Olay products. This is where going years mostly without makeup and using a lot of sunscreen to prevent easy burning and freckling is going to pay off, I think. I've gotten carded in the last couple of years, even when not in the company of my twenty-something friend, so that makes me a bit more confident.

To switch to the writing track, have you found that it's harder or easier to write younger people?

For myself, I find that it was actually easier when I got some distance and could understand how, even when things felt overwhelming, things were just small pieces of a puzzle.

 

Booster I so agree that there is too much stress placed on the young figuring out what they want to do at 20. Like so many others, if I could go back and retconn my University selections.. ah... I would.

I'm not settled at all yet either, though I've been married for almost 6 years. That's the only sign of stability I can claim. My past few years have been dedicated to forestry and the outdoors, with the occasional city stint.

I came from a very Catholic New England family, where everyone was slated for Holy Cross or Boston College. Here I am, a few degrees and ten years later, applying to school to study crafts and design, wondering why I never grew up thinking it was 'okay' to pursue something like this. I'm so happy doing it though!

Admittedly, I was lucky in high school. There were a few great teachers who bucked the trends and encouraged free thinking. However, I can't relate as well today. I can't figure out how to texdoc on cell phones, LOL! (Granted, I cancelled my cell phone after three months...)

Then nice thing about getting older... Material things mean less and less to me. I realize I don't 'need' most of what I grew up thinking I would have someday. Making a modest living, being physically able to do the stuff I love, and having a little free time for it... that's more than enough. I'll also go with Jedi-Jae. What other people think is not so important; I actually love being alone and getting absorbed in all my weird hobbies.



As for the writing: I haven't written younger characters, but I agree that distance makes everything seem simpler to write about.


I loved the Thorn Birds, BTW. The book more than the miniseries, but both were good. Shogun too. I remember freaking out my mother because I stayed inside for three days straight during the summer to read Shogun when I was eleven.

 

I speak from experience all too often

I was 17 when I entered engineering at McGill University in 1965 (you do the math). I lasted 18 months. Quit and worked for 8 years at various things. Went back to university when I was 27 and BREEZED through it. By then I *knew* what I wanted to do. With my graduate degree I have been teaching off and on for more than 20 years. I try and caution students that they cannot know at 20 what their lives will be at even 30.

Now at 55, I am enjoying life more than ever.

Mind you, some young people do know early on what the want to do. My son decided when he was in grade 6 that he wanted to go into computers and that's what he did. He had a degree in computing science and the kid makes more money than I do.

My daughter took her time. First she wanted to be a teacher, then a child care worker, and now that she has graduated, she wants to go into urban planning.

The one thing that I think we can bring to our children is a saying that I have framed: "There are only two lasting bequests we can give to our children: one is roots, the other is wings." And it is soooo true.

As for writing, it stands to reason that as you get older, your experiences allow you to write more effectively as you have a broader canvas and not the limited palatte of the young.

 

LOL, Booster!

I don't see anything wrong with changing careers and interests whenever you feel the need for a fresh start. In the 20 years since I graduated from high school, I've been a lifeguard, a swim coach, a bartender, an Army officer, a factory supervisor, and a network engineer. I've harbored ambitions of being a writer, and they've waxed and waned over years, usually in direct correlation to how much I enjoyed my job at the time. Now I'm getting the urge to start my own business, and I may try it in the next couple of years.

As for writing, I think getting older has only helped. The perspective is a little different, but I think I'm able to write younger characters, not only because I still remember being that age, but also because my experiences since then have me more sympathetic, along with being able to view the behaviors in a different light.

EDIT: Just read the homework article. All I can say is "Amen!"

 

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up

I once either read in a "Quantum Leap" book or Sam said it in an episode, "College is wasted on the Young." To me, there's never been a truer word spoken.

My best friend in college went her whole high school thinking she wanted to be a DR- got to college and just didn't have the complete knack for the science- yet she stuck w/ it and ended up doing nothing w/ her Biology degree. She now works in Social Services for the Government.

Really, how at 18 are you supposed to know what you want to do w/ your life, if all you've ever experienced is high school?

All I know for sure with myself is all that I wanted when I graduated from college was to get the hell out of home! I didn't think twice about what I was going to do w/ myself after I actually earned my college degree- all I cared was I wanted freedom from my mother.

I grew up in a household where everyone was a scientist of sorts and I was the dreamy, artistic black sheep of the family. When I got to college I went against my family by getting a degree in English. Unfortunately, I found the degree unrewarding and found out my senior year, I probably should have been taking art classes all along.

I spent my 20's doing serious soulsearching to try and figure out who the hell I actually am.

Inspiration, it seems, comes from intersesting places. I work at jobs that pay my bills- and much like Luke_Warm- allows me the free time to play w/ my hobbies- but that overall I find the work unstimulating. I spent many years struggling with the untrained artist within to try and see if she would flourish.

With finding TF.N I started again my journey as a writer. In college, I could never get into the upper level creative writing classes and was stuck taking literary criticism courses that bored me to tears. I wanted to write children's books- but I hated the criticism in the lower level creative writing courses and writing so many essays drained me of writing creative energy. I found art in college as freeing- and for years I though that was what I should have been pursuing.

Now, years later, the writer, who'd always been my leading muse in life, but who I silenced while I tried being an artist, has surged forward stronger than ever... allowing me to realize that I'd gotten myself off track for way too long and that the writer inside is truly my strongest inspiring voice.

While not worrying about art, my writing is effortless (except for the occassional bouts w/ Darth Writers Block) and once again, I feel that a new era may be upon me for finding that road less travelled by that I seemed to have raced past years ago.

What I have found out so far is that money does not buy happiness (although it helps to keep your peace of mind) but that truly, in the words of GL's friend, Joseph Campbell, the means to find real, true happiness in life is to "follow your bliss"- whatever that may be. He advises to find that one thing that you immerse yourself in and you feel truly HAPPY doing it. Not estatic... or momentarily pleased... but HAPPY. If you can find that one thing and pursue it w/ all of your heart- you will find what you need to do in life to make your time on earth better spent.

THAT is what kids should be taught in school.

 

Well, I don't know whether to be depressed or rejoice that I am not alone.

I'm 27, five years out of college with a Chemical Engineering degree that I don't think I'll ever use properly, and have no idea what I REALLY want to do.

Is it just the late 20's or is it just me? I've come to realize lately that much of my life's goals and decisions were largely based on what my parents wanted for me. I've always been scientifically inclined, so the engineering degree doesn't really depress me, but I never have been sure exactly what I want to do with it. I've had a few related jobs and a few unrelated jobs. Writing is actually a fluke for me. I've never been one to be very creative except on special occasions, but now that I've been here a while, I find that I kind of enjoy it, strictly as a personal challenge (and the feedback is addictive ).

I guess I'm just saying that I totally agree with you all. I don't think I'll find out what I want to do with my life anytime soon. I DO think I've got a much better opinion (truthful opinion) of myself and my abilities than I did a few years ago. And I believe I'm more self-assured as far as I don't worry so much what others think.

Kids today sure have it different. (I'm loathe to say better or worse for fear of making myself feel old. ) Whatever happened to just riding your bike around the neighborhood for hours, having clubhouses, and Saturday morning cartoons? You know, it's not the kids I feel for these days, so much as the adults. My mom, and I'm sure yours as well, felt safe letting us run around the neighborhood for hours without seeing us till dinnertime. She didn't have to drive us four kids all over creation just so we could have safe extra-curricular activities. I feel for the modern day 'soccer mom'.

inez

 

No, I think you're right, Inez. It seems to me, based only on my own experience, you understand, that I didn't really have a sense of MYSELF until I was about 25. I had a hard time hitting the "30" mark, since I didn't have the husband/house/station wagon/2.3 kids and the golden retriever (still don't), but once past that I suddenly feel a lot more relaxed. I AM my own person, I DON'T have to prove anything to anyone, even my parents who (as much as they loved me) did put pressure on me.

My vote: Apollo! And the follow-up was just SO horrendous! They arrived at Earth and became a Boy Scout troop?! HUH? Who hires these people?!!

 

Anyone around here remember "The Salem Strangler???"

I want to say Jake, but I think he was Chris Kosacheck's (the current Roman)brother? Gads...I haven't thought about that in years!

 

Lori gets 10 points! It was Jake, Chris's brother.

had a hard time hitting the "30" mark, since I didn't have the husband/house/station wagon/2.3 kids and the golden retriever (still don't), but once past that I suddenly feel a lot more relaxed.

Well, I have the golden retriever (and 2 cats- kept for catching mice) ... that's about it- so I guess I'm not a normal "30ish" woman if that's the criteria.

 

The day I turned thirty, I had been living out of a dorm for approximately two months, and was in a boxy little apartment house with a sagging floor, surrounded by (you guessed it) dorms and undergraduates... Golden retrievers and cars weren't even on the radar. It's weird--my high school friends (mostly women) have all settled down one way or another; my college friends (mostly men) are just starting to think, "Hmm, you know, marriage may not be such a far out idea. Maybe sometime in the next ten years or so." (Okay, not all of them, but all the ones I'm still in touch with.) I ask my settled friends where they meet people our age who have the vaguest interest in settling with them, and they look mystified. It just happens. Yodl, the Jedi matchmaker, I guess--Let go your conscious self... use the Force...

Me, I'm enjoying my life, but also thinking that I don't want to be eighty years old and realizing that there were things I needed to do sometime before forty and missed. Grrr.

I was actually pricing houses in my neighborhood the other day. Scary, scary stuff, but I want one, dang it. Not on the radar yet--how does anyone single afford it?--but I'm setting myself for it. I'm going to get a house. Someday. And a cat (not a golden retriever girl, I guess). My roommate lets me share her pet ferret, but it's not the same.

I once either read in a "Quantum Leap" book or Sam said it in an episode, "College is wasted on the Young." To me, there's never been a truer word spoken.

Ooo. Fellow QL fan.