ST Palpatine "Gran Palpa" Discussion Thread

I think there is a give and take inside of Palpatine. He posses the power and knowledge of the Sith Specters but at the same time they influence him and in key moments control him. One of the times the Specters really come to the forefront is when succession to a more powerful Sith Lord is an option. So Palpatine must rule the the voices in his head. I think the gallery of Sith Acolytes on Exegol is a visual representation of how Palpatine posses and rules over these spirits.

If Rey killed Palpatine she would posses Palpatine and the other sith. At that point for Rey, Palpatine would be just another hooded figure in the gallery of Acolytes.

I don't know what was going on with Snoke. He uses some of the same phrases as the Emperor. He sets up the same situations. Palpatine says he 'made' Snoke. Who knows.

 

A Snoke comic released implied rather heavily (after the fact when TROS was released although this came out a few months before) that Snoke is pretty much literally a mouthpiece for Palpatine.

 

I do think Snoke was his own person at one point and perhaps the Snoke we saw killed was not even a clone but Palpatine's people were using him as a template trying to resurrect him, hence the Snoke clones. Clearly at some point Palpatine either became Snoke's master (my preference) or possessed his body. Perhaps Snoke was always a part of Palpatine's contingency and was the head Sith cultist on Exogol before Palpatine's death in ROTJ.

My post from another thread but it sums up my opinions on Palpatine in the ST and what I think they had in mind when making TROS...

 

Speculation is fun, so I'll just say that the new film gives creative fans a lot to chew on and to play with as they reimagine the Dark Lords of the Sith and Palpatine's 11th hour last-ditch plan to bring them back. Or has it all been in the works for decades? I'm of the decided opinion that the runic dagger used to kill Rey's parents was intended as a ritual item for her to one day discover. Not that Ochi was in on this, necessarily but then again Sith assassins may be as dedicated as they are ruthless.

 

The dark side doesn't need to be brought back. Kylo Ren destroying Han Solo--that is the dark side further corrupting him.

 

It's not the Dark Side that Palpatine is trying to bring back but the Sith as an institution, and of course their plan to rule the galaxy directly and without subterfuge.

 

It definitely depends on how literally you take the line because the same thing is essentially said to Rey by Luke: “A thousand generations live in you now.” No one takes that to mean Rey is possessed by the past Jedi. It’s two very interesting sides of a coin they’ve chosen to juxtapose and highlight.

 

Luke didn't destroy the Dark Side. Rey didn't destroy the Dark Side. Bringing balance just means creating equal parts of light and dark in the Force.

 

Your point?

 

"The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan."
- Palpatine

I think this was one of the film's better lines. You could look at it as Sidious being sexist. He's denying Leia's generalship, her accomplishments, Jedihood, and connection to Luke and Vader. He's talking about her as if she's nothing but Bail Organa's heir. He might as well be saying, "The princess of Tarkin's asteroids has disrupted my plan." That was one of the moments I hated Sidious in the film. Therefore, it was effective.

(Bail Organa is an underrated character in the old EU. Great guy. I'm just saying that Sidious was talking about Leia as if she were naught but an infant of two important people on Alderaan and denying her CT accomplishments. This Sith is an evil bastard. Lol.)

 

I think I said this earlier, but to me this line was just him being indirect and grandiose in his usual circumlocuitous manner. He uses titles instead of names in many situations. Such a polite man.

 

I agree. I don’t think that line is really sexist nor intended that way. It sure as hell is dramatic and theatrical, though. It’s pulpy and over-the-top, so Palpatine in full Evil Emperor drag.

In-universe, it’s also not as negative as some put it out to be. The “Princess” title is not as minimizing as it might be in our world. It’s her royal title, a position of power and leadership that even Lor San Tekka alluded to in TFA (“To me, she’s royalty.”). She’s more than just a Jedi or a general. It’s her mythical role as the leader of the Rebellion, the embodiment of the Jedi’s legacy and principles of freedom.

The Princess of Alderaan is, ultimately, the biggest foe of the Emperor of the Universe. One small planet, yes, reduced to rubble. But out of that planet, hope was reborn.

(P.S., I’m not trying to undermine your interpretation, especially if it had a strong positive effect overall. I just really loved the line too, though for different reasons.)

 

He helped explain this confusing movie.

 

In TPM we have Palpatine in the running for the next Chancellor. He's got two competitors one from Malastare and another from Alderaan. It is here he says "I feel confident our situation will create a strong sympathy vote for us" .

Which we all know this is not what Palps actually believes. The Senate is corrupted and they have no interest in the common good. That even from Palps. He's already making grand plans. Leia is from Alderaan in the political scheme of things . Palps hasn't changed, he's still wickedly competitive "I will be Chancellor".

Cheers!

MJ

 

The sympathy vote is part of how he got into office, not just by influencing other senators directly. It has a long term effect on how people view him in the senate. That's why he had the Trade Federation invade his planet in the first place. He sacrificed his own people for a pathway to power.

 

I'm still confused about the fact that Rey was supposed to kill Plapy which was bad...but she did it anyway.

 

The ritual would only work if he was a willing participant. Once he decided he wanted to rule again on his own instead of "joining" with a successor, the ritual wouldn't work. I also think she had to hate him, and kill him in anger. Hence ironically the fact that he could drain their dyad synergy seemed like a liability but it ended up allowing him to be fully defeated.

EDIT: Some people think he would have "joined" with Luke had Luke done the honors in the ROTJ throne room scene. I'm on the fence about this. It's interesting, but I'm not sure that fits my headcanon.

 

yah there's a whole ritual thing there to do the essence transfer which she didn't do because she refused to hate him and didn't strike. And Rey and all of the Jedi bounced his dark force back at him and didn't strike him down. So technically that's all on you, Sheev!

 

I always thought it was weird that the Sith Masters trained apprentices knowing full well that the apprentice would kill the master eventually, once fully trained.

I was happy that Abrams added the layer to it that there is a parasitic essence transfer that goes on to explain why the master is ok with it, so long as the killing is by someone more powerful and fueled by hatred.

When Rey killed Palpatine, she was not striking down an unarmed man in anger, he was actively trying to kill her.

How the whole thing works isn’t spelled out, maybe the Sith did transfer to her as powerless inhabitants (think Being John Malkovitch). Maybe they exist in Rey as a prison? Who knows?

Though I do think this raises the question as to what would have happened had Mace killed Palpatine.

There was the problem as to why Palpatine explained everything. He probably could have gotten Rey to strike him down had he not explained to her that he was performing a ritual to inhabit her body.

And Kylo had already fallen and was ready to kill Palpatine in anger right from the beginning. Why not capitalize on that?


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Ren 'and me' in the throne of the sith, Rey says. That's what she sees. Her 'vision' as she calls it.

We see a glimpse of Rey in the throne when Ben/Kylo touches Vader's mask, her eyes sightless - just like those of Palpatine. 'You will be Empress. We will be one'.

No 'Ren'.And yet, Rey saw 'Ren' too. Because of the 'dyad', I guess. Two that are one is also one that is two in a sense. Maybe that fact made her vision 'solid and clear'.

What if Rey had killed Palpatine the way he wanted? His spirit would have passed into her but, what about the other element of the dyad? What would have happened to Ben/Kylo? Maybe he would have been immediately drained/absorbed.

 

I didn't catch that, will look out for it next time.

I thought it was interesting that where Ben is the least dark we have seen him in the trilogy (Exegol with Rey), Rey at that moment almost struck Palpatine down in anger and turned. Kind of like the dyad were opposites balanced out. Rey moving towards dark and pulled back by Ben, Ben being fully light yet being taken out of the fight for Rey to fend for herself.

And Ben reviving Rey after Palpatine is gone by giving up his essence kind of adds credence to the "two are one" part of things.

 

I suspect one of Palpatine's alternative plans (perhaps his favorite) would have Rey becoming his Sith heir and Kylo Ren her dark partner on the throne.... after which the Sith would begin a truly fearsome dynasty.

 

I'm still not buying that Sith possession Ritual thing.

I still think Palpatine was just testing Rey to see if she's willing to go to the Dark Side by striking an unarmed man to save her friends. Blurring the lines of the hypocracy and paradoxal dogmatic views of a Jedi.

He wanted to see if she's willing to become Empress Palpatine just to save her friends.

I think it's just one those of many lies that Palpatine always use to manipulate.

This will cover the big plot hole when Palpatine disarms and freezes Rey and Ben when they were going to attack him. I mean if he really wanted to posses her THEN why stop them??

I think his plan all along was to absorb their dyad essence and was just testing her about the Sith Possession and stalling until Ben came and then boom! The power of two powers the one true Emperor!!

Him being surprised when he healed quickly is just him being shocked on how truly powerful the Dyad is.

 

I don't think it's possession but "merging." To me there is a question if he is right about being able to do it, but it seems clear to me that he does believe he can. There is also a matter of whether he is being literal about past sith lords having an ongoing life within himself. From Episode 3's initiation scene for Anakin (unique in the Lucas canon) he does seem to be connected to an uncanny power.

 

I like the idea of the Sith transfer, just because I feel it addresses the contradictory nature of the Sith in that they train murderous, hateful, greedy apprentices to be stronger than the master, yet they crave immortality.

If the master embodies all of the Sith that we’re struck down in hate, and an apprentice comes along that can kill the master, then the Sith energy leaches onto the apprentice like a parasite.

I like the idea, though the way Palpatine keeps emphasizing that he’s all of the Sith seems odd because we know of at least one Sith in the comics whose helmet was in Palpatine’s possession and whose spirit did not reside in Palpatine, but stayed linked to the helmet.

And also because when fighting Mace, fighting Yoda, and taunting Luke, he never boasts of harnessing the power of all of the Sith.

So perhaps having all of the Sith reside in a single vessel was a result of the occult practices used to bring Palpatine back.

I don’t understand if Palpatine being host to all of the Sith was a new development since returning from the dead, or if he had embodied off of the Sith since killing Plagueis


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