ST Palpatine "Gran Palpa" Discussion Thread

A big part of the excitement for the sequel trilogy was seeing the heroes from the original trilogy again. And that was genuinely exciting. But it was also a challenge because they could easily overshadow the younger generation, who would have to carry much of the actual story. I think they ended up doing a good job in terms of this. That’s not to say every new character got compelling storylines, but they didn’t feel like side characters.

With the villains, I do really like having Palpatine being behind the new threat for this trilogy, but he didn’t necessarily have to still be alive to do that. He certainly was not the main focal point of the OT, for example. It was Darth Vader and the Empire, with Palpatine showing up in the end only. Could the First Order alone as a legacy have worked without the Emperor himself still alive? I agree that would be difficult without having someone from the older generation of villains. That’s precisely what they did more explicitly in TROS with Pryde, Exegol, and Palpatine himself. Could some of that villain legacy aspect have been introduced more explicitly earlier in the trilogy?

 

That's not a necessary part of the story that was told, so again, you're not seeking an extension of the same narrative arc, which is what a 7-9 are required to be if they wish to belong to the same story. You seem to desire a spinoff that tackles entirely disparate themes.

 

No, I do not! My idea IS an extension of the same narrative arc. The existing ST is a rehash.

"Disparate themes"? What I'm talking about is keeping the narrative moving forward, beyond the point we reached in ROTJ, and exploring the themes of GL's story further. There is inevitable drama in what follows the fall of dictatorship and that, among other things, is what the ST should've dealt with.

 

I only blame Disney for rushing through the whole thing and not having a real plan in place. If they'd had taken their time and fleshed out the complete trilogy ahead of time I believe the final product would have been better. As it is its reasonably entertaining & watchable but there is no reason it couldnt have been all-world awesome. They had the blueprints in place, a rich universe & backstory to play with and an unlimited budget with access to whomever or whatever they needed to make it great. But, alas, they didnt appear to take early enough advantage.

 

Except one of the few things we specifically know from Pablo Hidalo is that there was no First Order in Lucas's story. That was all J.J., and we all know what the motivation was.

As for Darth Plagueis being the key to Palpatine's return, well, that doesn't make any sense at all given that the central irony in the Plagueis story--which Palpatine specifically notes--is that Plagueis "could save others from death, but not himself." This is an important point because it is then revealed at the end of the movie that a Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn, managed to achieve what Plagueis could not. The obvious implication, reinforced by the subsequent episodes, being that this is a feat achieved only through compassion and self-sacrifice, something completely alien to a Sith. This is, of course, also explained quite clearly in the deleted conversation between Qui-Gon and Yoda.

The opera scene in Episode III was absolutely not setting up Palpatine's return (that's absurd, as Lucas had no intention of any such thing) but was in fact specifically establishing its utter impossibility.

 

Note i didn't say first order i said a remnant of the emprie, they would probaly be smaller like a rebellion sort of. Also i wound't doubt Lucas also doing some super weapon in his movies.

 

Pablo's tweet was about which concepts came from Lucas's story. There was no Empire-like faction in Lucas's story. It is an extreme, unwarranted stretch to suppose Pablo meant something different. It's also an extreme, unwarranted stretch for you to suggest there was a super weapon in Lucas's story when there is in fact no indication that that was the case.

 

Well we won't know it might be a seath star it could a sith temple for all we know or this mrtis world with midi-chlorians. I think i heard somewhere Lucas though of a remnant empire. Also Lucas had two death stars in just one trilgoy nt such a stretch.

 

There's no reason to speculate that it could be any of those things, because there's no reason at all to think that there was a superweapon in his story. The fact that you think you heard something somewhere is not a reason. The fact that Lucas introduced a second Death Star is not positive evidence that he would have introduced a third one.

 

That just isn't how the story is constructed. The Star Wars saga isn't an anime with hundreds of episodes and an arc villain every month, with a story that never ends as we move forward with the mundane lives our protagonists. As much as you may want to think that Star Wars is primarily character driven, it really isn't: it's a plot-driven Western narrative, and that plot began and ended around the orbit of its principal antagonist, whose rise to power and subsequent defeat bookends every major event that transpires.

 

The Skywalker saga will always be about family and redemption and ifghting off the dakness and a rising light.

 

@Lord Exor: You obviously do not understand where I'm coming from here. Not at all. And you're clearly not really interested in understanding it either, possibly because doing so might make you realize what a redundant, poorly thought out mess of a rehash the ST is.
I'm sorry, but I don't have the patience for this right now.

 

The ST has osme of GL ideas also so in part he rehash his own things.

 

In The OT:

The Emperor was briefly mentioned on the first part then on the second he was revealed as a Force User and master of Vader. The third part showed how powerful he truly is.

In The PT:

It showed how truly powerful he is and the top mastermind. It showed the audience the steps on how he manipulated his way all to the top.

In The ST:

Him not being on the first two parts just showed why he is the ultimate villain. He was Snoke all along and was responsible for Kylo’s turn along with the First and Last Orders.

In the PT, he showed the audience how he fooled everyone in the SW Universe that he was behind everything while in the ST, he was so way behind the scenes that the audience wasn’t even in on it fooling everyone including the audience. That’s the true Palpatine.

Bravo JJ and Disney!!

 

I do understand where you're coming from, and the tale you seek is best reserved for a nice novel or two, or maybe even a spinoff trilogy.

 

I do like that in the opening crawl they refer to him as the “Phantom Emperor.” It’s a nice touch to remind of how he operates from the shadows dating back to TPM.

 

I wish they showed the message of his revenge.Would be cool to hear it while Kylo is killing the Mustfarians.Apparently the message can be heard on fortnite which is a drag.

 

Rose: You really can do this right?
DJ: About that.

After all the whole “failed” CB scene and having Finn and Rose being in a desperate state accepting such a dubious character who they know isn’t the real deal Rose finally had the wherewithal to ask.

DJ’s demeanor proves how silly how the truth hurts. I mean why trust him at all. He’s a talented bum for sure who’s true skill was to take chances only for himself! Rose even hints this : “The resistance will give you anything you want”. She knows he’s got tricks to survive but he just wants the prize.

Then again ironically something better than nothing.

MJ

 

I am a fan of how Palpatine has this whole intricate scheme to jump into a new body but when he discovers that Rey and Ben are a dyaid and sucks up all their life energy he's like "Screw this!" and Restores the One True Emperor and t'hell with these kids. The man knows how to think on his feet!

 

George Lucas did not make the sequel trilogy. He was not involved. You cannot blame George Lucas for anything that Disney/LFL did. That is absurd.

 

Does TROS work better when we ignore information from outside the movies?

The movie just tells us that Palpatine is Rey’s grandfather. We don’t know the details, but we do know that this means she is the heir to the Sith and to the Empire. This explains her power and her intended destiny, as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned.

But that’s not the destiny embraced by either her or her parents, who died keeping her from it. She chooses the Jedi, or House Skywalker as the filmmakers strangely decided to call it. The idea of warring houses is shoehorned in, but it does a decent job of reframing the Jedi/Sith conflict as one of warring clans.

This new context does help make the conflict more realistic or historical. To most of the villains, the Sith are a royal line that has brought them riches and power in the past. They want that power back, and so they want the Sith and their legacy to return.

So they resurrect Palpatine, whose plans go beyond rebuilding the Empire but also include resurrecting the Sith, both through his bloodline and by corrupting that of his enemies. When viewed as the dying patriarch of a near-extinct clan, Palpatine’s motivations to have Rey take up his mantle do make more sense. Or at least they seem more familiar.

This may seem out of character for Palpatine, but it’s technically not. And it may be more grounded than focusing too much on how his spirit will survive in Rey or what it means that he’s all the Sith. Of course those things are real in the movie, but all it really means is that his knowledge and power will now become Rey’s. The Sith legacy will continue with her and through her.

Of course Palpatine is still Palpatine, so when he encounters the miraculous power of the dyad, he opts for his own survival over that of his family. He no longer faces death, so his current heir is no longer necessary. But up until then, I do think it makes more sense to think that he had resigned himself to death, and to living on only as part of the dark side power that his granddaughter would embrace.

Just some thoughts here...

 

I'm pretty sure he was planning on surviving either way, in Kylo's or Rey's body if necessary.

 

I'm not sure the audience ever fully sees Palpatine's plan.