ST Palpatine "Gran Palpa" Discussion Thread

Rey and Kira both Palpatine's. GL wanted Palpatine's grandchild involved wether it like Tros or he had aloving family.

 

Dynastic Sith make no sense given what we know of the Sith from the PT. This is yet more affirmation that Lucas made the right call in selling to Disney; Lucas's concept of his own creation is frustratingly mercurial.

 

It bears repeating, but no one who owns the book has confirmed there’s any notion in it of the Sith tradition being passed down a family line. This rumor seems to be spreading from misinterpreting discussion in this very forum.

That said, Lucas’s early drafts for the original Star Wars did present the first Jedi as being a family/clan-based organization. And indeed in some of those drafts the Sith were a clan of pirates who were trained in the Force by a dark Jedi. So the concept of family/clan is a big part of these stories regardless.

But this, I think, is a misquote.

 

I just realized that with the ST finished and the novelization of TROS, which feels like an expanded script of the cinematic release of TROS, the ST is actually built around Palpatine. I'm not sure that was the idea back in 2012-2015, but it's exactly that.

You can say that the years between VI and VII are actually "Sidious preparing his return/revenge in the Unknown Regions". The story of how Sidious masterminded his return many years after being killed in ROTJ: his spirit flying to Exegol; the (flawed) cloning of his old self; his failed (powerless-useless) clone son; the creation of Snoke (basically an avatar), the 1st Order (to weaken the New Republic); the Final Order (to crush the New Republic forever); greenlightning Starkiller Base; the seduction of Ben Solo and his revenge on the Skywalkers; his clone son escaping and giving birth to a force-sensitive granddaughter.

Read all that and you can say that Sidious has been the Main Villian/Root of Evil in the three trilogies.

 

That's the idea.

 

Either he does it, or others will do it. either people hate Lucas or people hate Disney.

 

52 pages in not sure I'm going to say anything new but I will offer this:

In hindsight - Palpatine was necessary because they chose to make a trilogy surrounding a 3rd Skywalker and then kill off the real bad guy one movie too early. Lucas's idea to bring back Maul would have been better, especially with his performance in TCW - that would have opened the door to incorporate the OT characters without burdening the story with balance over the course of IX episodes. But since they did decide to go the Ben Solo route:

A lot of people called Rey a Palpatine back after TFA was released. I always thought that was the most sensical way forward because it created the best symmetry with the story top to bottom (I to IX), and it makes sense that a redeemed Skywalker and a redeemed Palpatine would be the ultimate victor over evil (Palpatine or Snoke). I think the problem is that if you were going to use actual Palpatine, he needed to be back by episode VIII after Snoke was dispatched (probably in their unconscious state after Anakin's saber is split and Holdo halves Snoke's ship). But because they didn't have him back in VIII the audience doesn't sit with this knowledge before turning the chapter, and the consequence is that there's no real weight behind his return when Episode IX happens, it's more just like "what the hell happened here?" That disoriented state completely undermines the weight of the Rey = Palpatine reveal.

That's why you don't have 3 directors direct a trilogy that is itself a 3rd installment of a larger trilogy.

 

"Fathers and sons" - Ian McDiarmid

MJ

 

Sorry but GL is the GREATEST one hit wonder of all.

GL had a great idea in Star Wars which is undeniable and that alone would make anyone top in the Sci Fi Genre.

TESB and ROTJ which he did not direct where also influenced by listening to his wife and advisers which made it great.

The PT trilogy is where you can see GL’s true talent or lack of it...which he really had no clue. He had no one to answer to and he did it his way.

From thinking all out video game effects to thinking Jar Jar Binks were great ideas are laughable. From flip flopping more than anyone shows he really had no clue. Making Anakin a little boy to cheesy dialogues and cringe worthy voices he used on characters are little things that makes GL a one hit hack.

The first Clone Wars cartoon introduced Grevious for the first time with an awesome menacing voice..so what did GL do with Greivous on his movie debut in ROTS...he changed his voice to a cartoony supposedly child friendly bafoonish voice.

From saying lightsaber suppose to be heavy in SW to ummm no I mean it’s suppose to be light in TESB...to the PT suppose to be watched after CT then later changed no it’s meant to be watched PT first ...to saying Emperor looks like that because he is ancient and evil to ummm something ambiguous in ROTS and on and on....and on. I trust Disney more than GL.

The only thing wrong with what Disney did was they weren’t organize to do an actual trilogy.

But to say GL would have done better is to forget GL’s track record from Howard the Duck to Willow.

GL’s sequel would be a good decent story with horrible dialogues and poor directed acting with aliens talking childish voices sounding like Jar Jar, Gun Guns, Trade Federation, Battle Droids “roger roger” and Greivous.

GL clearly meant Darth Maul to be dead in TPM but since he is a fan favorite....GL resurrected him in TCW and if he’s going to do a sequel trilogy...Maul would have been the main villain!!! Sorry GL!! I don’t think so!!

The only decision you got right was selling.

Disney is far from perfect but GL’s sequel would have been a lot worse.

At least I agree with GL that Sidious had many apprentices before Maul and that Sidious came from a lineage that founded the Sith and that his descendants would be on the ST. But cmon!! Sifo Diyas his apprentice??!!! A name that was briefly mentioned in TPM all of a sudden ummm well yeah I always intended that to be so. Hahaha Go away GL!!

 

He wanted to possess Kylo I think. His 'I never wanted you dead' to Rey was a lie. She was a jedi, and she had to die.

Kylo was about to kill Rey but Leia intervened. Palpatine: 'the princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan'. So what we see between Rey and Palpatine in the film was his plan B.

Now, Palpatine doesn't mention the possession thing to Kylo. What if everything had transpired as he had foreseen? Kylo kills Rey and goes to Exegol. I killed the girl, give me my empire.

'I killed Snoke, I'll kill you'. Kylo didn't kill Snoke through anger and hatred, just by cunning. Maybe that was not enough for the possession to work. Kylo had to attack Palpatine just like Luke had tried to do that in ROTJ. Palpatine would try the same thing with Rey in TROS.

Palpatine's revenge - Kylo, 'the last Skywalker', was a part of it. Rey was not.

This would point to Kylo's backstory. 'She's not who you think she is'. It seems in your anger you killed her.

 

A lot of this, on your own, isn't factual, like that.

 

This would have fixed so much.

 

I personally think Sidious had not mastered the possession technique in ROTJ. That's Exegol stuff. And he always mistrusted Kylo as "too soft-pure to be a true Sith", like all the Skywalkers. I think he sent Kylo to kill Rey in IX because he knew he would capture her, not kill her (aka, being soft).

 

We may not agree on Palpatine's role or how TROS was written. But one has to admit that this is some great artwork. It's interesting how they used Egyptian and Sumerian art as a reference for Exegol. That reminds me of the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban in the EU. Darth Revan and Darth Bane appear, and so apparently, they were going to canonize a lot of the old EU, which I think would have made the background of the film more interesting. Lots of creepy but creative statues. This looks like an ominous lair for Sidious. I do recall that they said that he was held up by a similar machine to the one that held King Omin together despite the latter's horrible condition. So, it's good that they were trying to establish that Palpatine was the culmination of the Sith, and I can buy this notion that he had acolytes who would want to bring him back to life and restore him to his former...insidious glory. I do believe more of the process of how he returned and how he intended to regain his former strength should have been explained. This artwork shows him turning into ROTS Palpatine, which is not a bad idea. His decayed hand looks horrifying. I still believe that he should have been cognizant of Rey and Kylo Ren's dyad status in order to want to drain their power from the outset. Having said that, Rey looks great with the crossed lightsabers in the artwork.

 

The artwork is amazing. I’m so glad ILM published that design retrospective. And yes, a closer look at the Sith statues is great!

I remember the Art of book mentioning the artists delving into Sith history in designing Exegol, though I had thought/hoped they might mean some of the Sith history we don’t know about, what Lucasfilm might have in their archives. But they meant the Sith history from Legends. Which is fine, especially if they brought back the designs but placed the characters in a different setting, maybe the pre-Bane period of battling Sith Lords. And I say a different context just because the many Sith stories from Legends don’t cohere too well, especially with the canon backstory, so it’d be good to keep the designs and names as allusions, but give them a new potential story to explore.

In any case, the Exegol, Sith, and Palpatine art is soo good. I especially love that art piece of Palpatine being killed, with what looks like either a sequential series of his being ripped apart, or his spirit being torn out of his body and destroyed, or potentially even him and his Sith spirits being shown as destroyed.

And this is the first time I realize the Sith Citadel in Exegol was a triangular inverted pyramid rather than a four-sided one. But it makes perfect sense, and is much more appealing in that it gives it a sharper look.

Finally, seeing once more artwork of the remnants of the Battle of Exegol, I love how it echoes the ruins of Jakku, as Rey finally well and truly lets go of the past and embraces her future.

 

Yeah, the inverted pyramid with the throne being underground. That's mockery; that's hell. (That unnatural lightning attack is the inversion of Yoda's (super)natural lightning in TLJ)

Also, those wayfinders were sith wayfinders, and maybe part of a prophesized revenge against the throne of Exegol.

The rule (=law) of two means also the rule (=act of ruling) of two. A co-rule.

Dyad=dyarchy. Just what Kylo wanted in TROS. Apparently, there was a sith dyad once. Two thrones.

The DOTF script had two thrones in it, related to Mortis. Inside a cave or a mountain I think

Coruscant, also a part of DOTF, belonged to the sith once.

 

For my money, Palpatine has never looked creepier than he does in TROS.

 

I actually think this is what happened in the movie. Just have Palpatine say this was his plan after he's rejuvinated. His initial surprise could be explained away as a physical reaction to the rejuvenating effect, not his unexpected knowledge of the Dyad.

Nothing else in the movie needs changed. If Palpatine's master plan is for Kylo and Rey to confront him together united in the Force - it makes sense he'd order Kylo to do the opposite and kill Rey. Kylo knowns any deal Palpatine offers is a trick.

To move the situation forward Palpatine has his Final Order fleet to apply pressure. Rey and Kylo have a very short amount of time to solve this problem before Palpatine wins by default.

 

Baby Boomer sucks out the life force of two Millennials and then is rejuvenated to his purest essence.

 

Hahaha. I love it. Like a true Sith Lord, McDiarmid can disguise himself as a boomer. He's part the more ambitious and much more dangerous 'Silent Generation'.

 

I agree. But somehow, in his own uniquely awful way, JJ turned all those great visual concepts into...a deeply unmemorable scene. He’s where good, rich and memorable ideas go to be sanded down into banality and forgotten.

 

You should copyright that last sentence.

 

Also part of my plan!

 

I hope we see Zombie Palpatine in stories that connect the Sequel trilogy in the upcoming shows.