ST Palpatine "Gran Palpa" Discussion Thread

I've never seen the part with him being a Knight of Ren before, just that he was going to be a clone of Palpatine.

The problem with bringing Palpatine back is that it holds the story back. I can see the point in showing the danger of history repeating itself if we're not cautious, but you don't have to bring back the exact same antagonist to make that point. Especially if you want to keep a forward motion, move beyond the fall of the über-villain and build toward a healed galaxy. Reviving the über-villain, or even establishing their possible return as the big threat that the heroes must stop, will change the focus of the story.

And it's such a one-dimensional thing to do. I have seen Sidious rise and fall over the course of two trilogies. He played his part as the great evil in the galaxy. They overcame him; he served his purpose. It's completely uninteresting, unnecessary and frankly hurtful to the story to have him come back for a rematch.
It's much more interesting to me - and appropriate for the story - to see what happens when the great evil has fallen; the chaos that's bound to erupt when the reinstated Republic tries to gain a foothold while power-hungry politicians, crime lords and soldiers attempt to fill the void left by the Emperor.

Maul was never the über-villain, so he would actually have fit into that. And his personality would've been absolutely perfect, since he's more of a neutral/chaotic evil as opposed to Sidious' lawful approach, which makes Maul different and unpredictable.

The fact that George wanted to have Maul and Talon in the trilogy as major dark side villains suggests to me, very strongly, that he was thinking along the same lines and had no intention of reviving the Emperor.

 

I thought rumors were Matt Smith played Palpatine. Was that the clone? Was the rejuvenated Palpatine? Or was rejuvenated Palpatine always going to be the Emperor look?

 

He was definitely up for Palps. But who bloody knows how so. It could be all three.

 

The rumor I’d heard was that Episode 9 would introduce a new villain, played by Matt Smith, who was not part of the Knights of Ren but became possessed by the spirit of Palpatine at some point during the movie. But who knows where that came from.

Thinking back, it would’ve been cool if it turned out all the Knights were, like Snoke, mutated clones of Palpatine. Or perhaps all but one, with one clone being the actual Palpatine, secretly in control of Snoke and the other Knights and only revealing himself at the end.

But of course, the big question then is why? Was there anything in TFA or TLJ that would make those movies truly tie well with Palpatine being a secret hidden villain?

 

While Tom Veitch did tell that story later on, at the time of Dark Empire’s publication, Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine (as Star Wars Insider was called at the time) quoted Veitch as saying he had that conversation with Lucy Wilson, with Lucas not being mentioned at all. Furthermore, Lucy Wilson said that after the unexpected success of the Thrawn trilogy and Dark Empire, Lucas found out about their contents and scolded her for allowing Veitch to have Palpatine return from the dead.

You might find it interesting that in the Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine interview, Veitch says that ANH referencing “the Clone Wars” gave him the idea to use cloning as the means to bring Palpatine back from the dead.

That’s like saying the production of a 2nd atomic bomb after the Manhattan Project means that FDR could return from the dead.

 

But Star Wars is fiction so it’s not really the same thing.

This sounds plausible. What put the Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire into motion as projects was Raiders of the Lost Ark and Temple of Doom’s success in 1989 being sold on VHS tape at an affordable price.

George Lucas already decided the following year would see the Star Wars Trilogy sold at a lower price. Presales we’re so strong for the Indiana Jones films George Lucas wanted a new Star Wars item for sale as a tie in at the VHS’s launch.

The idea was a new novel and new comic book could be ready in about a year and relatively inexpensive to make. Both projects were rushed into being created with a very short creation time to make the fall 1990 target date which both missed.

These being almost an after thought on a very short timeline makes George Lucas’s involvement being small more likely.

 

I think the DS2 was a late insert. I think originally the finale was going to happen on Coruscant. We'd see the Emperor's palace, be taken by Vader to the underground lava Sith Shrine, and that's where the major Rebel battle took place. To seize the capitol.

Guessing like many other parts of ROTj, that once Lucas realized he was done, he truncated his next trilogy into the story to fit and make EP 6 the finale, including making Leia the other Skywalker, killing off Palpatine (he was going to live for the next trilogy I believe), and bringing back another DS (because that was logistically cheaper than showing Coruscant, which is the same reason why we have Ewoks and not Wookies on Endor)

 

The Had Abbadon drafts also featured two death stars being constructed in orbit around the Imperial Capital. So the battle stations featured early on, though they were not where a lot of the personal action was taking place for Luke.

And thank your for sharing that, @darklordoftech . It’s very interesting to hear where Veitch got that idea. I’ll have to check out that video soon.

 

But a second death star isn't that connected to Palpatine coming back from the dead.

 

My friend, in the Bible there is one character brought back from the dead to speak with the living through means other than God. A power other places in the Bible say only God is capable of.

This happens in a place called Endor and is facilitated by the Witch of Endor.

This is an illustration of the witch of Endor from 1805.

 

Let’s not forget the second Death Star in Return of the Jedi and Death Stars plural in earlier drafts did not have the purpose in the story as the one in episode 4.

They’re used as a giant piece of cheese to draw out the Rebels to be destroyed and to lure in Luke Skywalker to become a Sith or destroyed if he was a threat or not strong enough.

Luke’s original showdown with Vader and the emperor happened not in the Emperor’s palace but his secret underground Sith Lair. It’s basically what we see on Exegol but with Lava and Snoke’s thrown. The final battle like in The Rise of Skywalker took place above.

Also there was going to be a rebel infantry attack into the Death Stars. That’s probably why there are troop transports in the final space battle. A concept that was started but not used.

So TROS’s attack on a Star destroyer with rebel troops was originally an idea for Return of the Jedi.

 

This has literally nothing to do with anything I said in that post. You're saying literally nothing of meaning or relevance to this subject.

You also may not understand how life and death is used in regards to the Holy Bible. I think death is interchangeably used as a term for physical death and the separation from God. In this, no one can ever come back to life by any other means.

 

You must not know what you are saying.

Except that one time in the Bible in place called Endor using methods you would consider unnatural.

 

The ANH script says that Tarkin is the Grand Moff of the “Outland Regions”, so perhaps Jerjerrod was going to be the Grand Moff of the “Inland Regions”?

 

Yes, I do. That the second death star has no real connection to Palpatine coming. You went on some sort thing about the Holy Bible, for no real legit reason.

No. Because other means can't possibly un-separate someone from God, other than that which God acts on. Because God is all powerful.

And this still has nothing to do with me saying the second death star has no real connection to Palpatine coming back.

 

Oh neat. A poor piece of inconsistent writing is now being defended by using another poor piece of inconsistent writing.

 

Don’t say that about @dagenspear

He’s trying. How would you feel if he said all you got are one note posts repeating the exact same thing - ‘you don’t like the sequel trilogy’ and are attempting to gate keep this forum and stop any constructive conversation.

 

At least I’m taking about SW in a SW forum and not the Bible in a SW forum.

So at least I’m in the correct place.

 

Talking about Endor

 

This person doesn't seem to understand the the Truth that is The Holy Bible or God. It's consistent. As far as I've read, not only does the Holy Bible never say that this woman did this herself, the Holy Bible also states nothing happens outside the will of God, so even if it happened, if God did not allow it, it wouldn't have happened.

There was no reason for this person to even actually bring this up as a reply to my initial statement.

 

I’m saying naming a planet Endor is NOT random.

 

Did someone mention the witch of Endor?



In all seriousness, while Lucas definitely got the name from the bible, we don’t know what, if any, deeper meaning he had in mind. With names, he tends to like including references to Earth at times, and sometimes the choices are just aesthetic.

Having said that, ghosts were a big part of the final duel with the Emperor in early drafts of ROTJ. In one draft, Obi-Wan and Yoda are able to cloud the Emperor’s visions of the battle to Luke’s advantage. In another draft, they actively interfere, as ghosts, to protect Luke from the Emperor’s Force attacks. And yet in another draft, Obi-Wan is able to emerge from the netherworld of the Force in the flesh, while Yoda’s ghost interferes with the Emperor’s connection to the Force. All of this, mind you, while the final duel is happening deep underground in the “tombs” beneath the Imperial capital.

Even in these drafts, so early on in the history of the Star Wars universe, Lucas had Obi-Wan state that “there is no entrance to the netherworld through the dark side.” Never say never, but it does sound like any connection to the biblical Endor was likely more about the role of ghosts in this movie. And the powers of the netherworld were tied to the good side of the Force only even back when these drafts were written.

 

And even if Lucas had it in mind, it doesn't make Palpatine coming back automatically.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Ian always makes me (temporarily) forget any problems I may have with the movie I'm watching, including the problem with his character being in the movie.
He's just that good.

 

@Lulu Mars After seeing The Rise of Skywalker opening week, I admitted to a friend that, when I watched Palpatine get melted, I actually felt a little upset. They were surprised, but when I then explained how much of a constant Ian McDiarmid's performance has been, and how graphic his "death" looked, they understood. I still find it difficult not to look away whenever I see that particular shot.

No offence to the countless great actors who've contributed to its legacy, but Mr. McDiarmid is unquestionably the saga's MVP.