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Senate Pandemics in the Age of Globalization: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion: See OP Warning

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Punk , Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    It's a good question. The city could "easily" have pulled the plug on all summer events 2 months ago. I don't know where the pressure was coming from to delay making the call. The reality of urban tourism in 2020 is completely uncontroversially straightforward, but the wishful thinking/city politics/economic despair part is something else.
     
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  2. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I think the biggest factor on why events have been holding off to cancel is due to insurance purposes. They have to prove that every effort was made to make the event happen before the insurance will cover the cancellation. So technically if the city in which an event was supposed to be held in hasn't instituted lockdown measures up to the date of the event, then the event organizers still have to proceed as if the event is going to happen or the insurance would be able to claim that they prematurely cancelled. We've seen this happen with most conventions that were scheduled this year where organizers had to know without a shadow of a doubt that they could cancel and that the insurance would pay out before they actually went ahead and cancelled. It's ridiculous, and is just one more example of the stranglehold insurance companies have on the general public.

    To put it in context, Star Wars Celebration that is scheduled for this August in Anaheim has still yet to be officially cancelled. Even though every major convention this year already has, and some even scheduled after that have been cancelled. And if you call the event organizer right now they'll actually tell you that the event is still set to go ahead as planned, even though we all know that's just a script they have to read. It's becoming a bit frustrating at this point among Celebration badge holders not knowing for sure what's going to happen yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  3. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    This has been very frustrating! And I had bought a 4-day ticket. :_|

    In other news, Bolsonaro has been dealt a blow in his quest to keep Brazil's coronavirus figures a state secret

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  4. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    That’s interesting, and also unsurprising.

    It’s cruel, because what usually happens is that I will start applications for festivals around January. Pitch fees can vary depending on size of pitch, and size of festival etc. Glastonbury is by far the biggest UK festival, and for a single pitch (for a truck the size of an American UPS step truck), you pay £7000.

    That money is normally used by the festival organisers to pay for advertising/promotion. Then when one of these things are cancelled, you have to wait for your money to be refunded.

    Most big festivals are around the £2000 - £4000 range, but you get the idea of how much money an independent trader has to lay out in advance, and what they may have to take a loss on.
     
  5. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    From what I understand, at least in the US, the insurance issue was basically the biggest thing holding back a lot of conventions from just outright cancelling sooner than one might expect them to. Which I think was the same for concerts as well, which is why so many concerts originally had "postponed" instead of cancelled.

    This is the US after all, so it makes sense that insurance payouts take precedent over the concerns of public health and safety.
     
  6. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Why is it that the same folks who didn't want to reopen businesses and churches due to COVID-19 are the same ones who are gathering by the thousands in cities everywhere which is far worse?
     
  7. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I'm just gonna grab the popcorn here, BRB
     
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  8. Juliet316

    Juliet316 9X Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    On the other hand, it may not be the only reason, as for some making the decision to cancel (and the loss of revenue as a result) could also be a death knell that may prevent them for not ever holding any kind of event ever again. (see the rumors that SXSW may not come back next year after having to cancel this year).
     
  9. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    That definitely might happen with smaller events. So I could see them waiting to cancel until they absolutely had to. I know that's the case with some smaller cons in my area. But for the bigger events, it's pretty much the insurance issue.

    What's surprising to me is how no new policies have been implemented to give event organizers some leeway given the extraordinary circumstances of Covid that we simply haven't had in modern times. Which, again, just goes to show how much the corporate mindset dictates all.
     
  10. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Sometimes a decent, and well received festival will end for other reasons. They sometimes run their course. They must be very difficult to organise, there’s so many moving parts.

    Glastonbury is run at the same farm every year. Once every few years the organisers take a year off so the fields can recover. They call it a “fallow year”.
     
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  11. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Sometimes festivals run their course. We used to have a festival here called "Racism Beat It". It was the nineties, it was sponsored by a tobacco company.
    It lasted until the summer of 2001.
     
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  12. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Speaking as a space manager and someone who also went through this from the attendee side as well with ACE Comic Con getting cancelled, yep. That's it in a nutshell. It's the force majeure clause (Act of God). Basically until it is taken out of the hands of the event runner, they cannot cancel without being responsible for those costs. But, if an act of god (something out of their control) occurs, then they get out of those contracts. So for ACE, the ban on events by the Governor was an act of god that allowed them to cancel. Similar has now happened with Fan Expo Boston (the mayor cancelled the marathon and other large events) and some local conventions as well. San Diego essentially had to wait for similar before they too could cancel and I expect New York will cancel even though they have not sold tickets but did start the vendor process back in late April/early May. However, until Cuomo or De Blasio ban all gatherings over 1000 people through October (when NYCC would take place) they will keep moving forward.

    And for those conventions that were really close to happening (like ACE was) there are major costs already lost (VIP merch, convention swag, contracts with the talent, contracts with food vendors, security, furniture and equipment rentals, lighting, etc. etc.). SDCC absolutely lost money but is trying to make it up with its virtual experience and by shifting some of the loss onto 2021 by honoring tickets for that next year.

    On my end, I had to wait for language that basically made it so I could exercise the clause if a client didn't already cancel on me. So basically, I kept having to tell the client "yes, you are still scheduled but that could change depending on the situation" until finally I got the go ahead to send it- and by that time 75% of my clients had already cancelled on their own (which is fine since I never took their money nor spent any so no loss on either side), but yeah that's the type of fun we go through.

    So for SXSW the costs of cancelling are significant. You still have guests that you entered into contracts to be there and most likely you paid them a certain amount down to guarantee their attendance. There is also all the work prior to the event (architects for plans depending on the space size, permits and insurance, rental companies, lighting and sound technicians, box office sales, credit card fees, and on and on) that those costs can bankrupt the smaller conventions. That is also why so many moved so quickly to virtual conventions and why some are working with talent to find ways to still honor things like signings - they need to try and recoup some of these losses and make a profit.

    This is also financially devastating to the authors and artists that depend on these conventions for revenue. Which is also why some of these conventions have been featuring artists and authors daily on their social media and working out ways to get them some extra funds while bigger name artists like Jim Lee auctioned drawings to help comic stores who have lost revenue. It's also likely why DC cut ties with Diamond after Diamond stopped shipping in April. Diamond not shipping impacts everyone in that industry: the store owners, the writers, the artists, and the publisher. DC would likely be fine but the smaller comics would not.

    One area that I think is actually getting hit harder than people may realize? Furniture rental places. I spend an average of $35,000 a year on rental equipment (but the university as a whole spends millions). But 80% of that is the summer. And when we can return to having events, the social distancing measures mean that I won't even need to rent the furniture because I'll have so much of my own available. That long term effect may actually bankrupt the smaller companies. They will do ok for the summer for outdoor events (because I am sure those are increasing) but once it gets colder and we enter winter, a lot of them are in for a rough season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  13. Juliet316

    Juliet316 9X Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    This will probably a 'fallow year' this year.

    Edit: @Yodaminch - Some outdoor events here have been cancelled through the summer, I know Harborfest here isn't taking place this year and most firework celebrations have been cancelled locally as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  14. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    @Yodaminch: Another thing I was even curious about, particularly when SDCC seemed to be in their deliberations, is if they would have to also coordinate refunds from the airline companies. If perhaps cancelling under circumstances like an act of god would qualify travelers for airfare refunds, versus if the organizer cancelled without that certainty which could then result in attendees being unable to recoup their travel costs.

    But yea, from the top down it all just seems so muddled with costs and liability. I wouldn't even put it past an event organizer, say they know they are going under after all this, to just take the money and run by not outright cancelling an event and just offering some make shift online live streamed event, which would somehow not require them to give refunds. In the grand scheme of conventions and events, that kind of thing would not surprise me at all.
     
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  15. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    I heard somewhere Glastonbury cancelled on March, and that all UK festivals ddI the same.
     
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  16. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Correct. They all cancelled around that time - even Snerdfest @};-

    @Mortimer Snerd
     
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  17. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
    This guy got tested for coronavirus after feeling symptoms, despite being in self-quarantine, and this might have been the worst experience of his life. This is the proof that we are not taking this pandemic seriously enough and that we are opening things too early and are too carefree when going to protest outside, despite good intentions.

     
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  18. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Um, file this under "always look on the bright side of life"? o_O

     
  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview & Teh Mole Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    My theory was right. I am driving to Colorado atm and the farther you get from cities the less and less people wear masks. I don’t know if they are just ignorant or “practicing their freedom” either way it’s stupid
     
  20. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    I do believe that SDCC worked with hotels in particular on refunds and it was actually one of the last things they finalized before announcing the cancellation so it would not surprise me if they also had to work with the airlines. That's the thing about events. It's not one piece. It's a whole team of people behind the scenes. Just like with movies, healthcare, education, food supply etc.

    That's why this pandemic has been so bad for the economy that we still don't really know the effects. The ripples are still going out.
     
  21. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    I'll preface this by saying that I'm in the first group and definitely not in the second group, but a whole bunch of people outside and wearing masks is very different from a whole bunch of people shoulder to shoulder in a building with no masks. As one friend that has been at some protests put it, he feels safer at those than he does going to the store because of almost everyone having masks and there being some social distancing put in place. The police tactics to target people's ability to breathe, targeting masks, and trying to corner crowds so that they're forced into higher densities are not exactly helping this matter, though, but he hasn't been at those events.
     
  22. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Protesting systemic injustice is a more worthy cause than wanting to stuff your face at Applebee's. It's not so much about people changing their tune as they're not ****ing shallow, selfish morons.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  23. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Apparently @Princess_Tina
    there is a condom shortage in Canada. Some countries and areas are just better at quarantining then others.

    And yes the masks help at a protest @Lowbacca_1977 but not as much as people think for a number of reasons since it's hot therefore germs can easily can form in the mask to say nothing of people shouting which neglects the mask's projection. Plus exposure time is proving to play a big part in this. If you are at a store while wearing a mask moving around and not standing around talking to people your exposure is much lower then at a large gathering for hours at a time. And plus it's pretty difficult but doable to contract trace a outbreak due to a store or restaurant compare to a large rally protest which is basically impossible. I think it will take a miracle for the protests to not be super spreaders but I am wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  24. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
  25. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    No, it really isn't.
     
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