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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Characters Path of Dark Persuasion-The New Palpatine Characterization Thread: New Challenge is up!

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by unlimited-power, Jan 27, 2008.

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  1. LLL

    LLL Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2000
    OK, I'm home sick...I'm going to try to write a challenge story today.

    I was looking for history of the fan fic archive last night and ran across all those old Talon Squad fics and "The Penitent."

    It'd be so fun to be in a huge round robin like that, but I don't notice them being done around here anymore.
     
  2. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I know. The last one that I participated in was "Swings and Roundabouts" when I got involved with the Jemmiah Chronicles.
     
  3. The_Face

    The_Face Ex-Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Palpatine is a shrewd analyst of other people's psychoses. In another life, he could have been sitting people down on his couch to look at ink blots. :p He can look at another person, size up their personality, find exactly what they want to hear - and exploit the heck out of it. That, I think, is what makes him such a good manipulator; he understands other people. Not in a way that he has empathy for them but more in the way we might know how a machine works. He sees everyone's ticking parts, but instead of looking for where to fix things, he looks for where to stick a spanner.

    And Anakin had a huge emotional shatterpoint for Palpatine to take advantage of.
     
  4. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    If anything, if we're talking Shatterpoints, Palpatine has the closest understanding of Mace Windu on the Dark Side of anyone. He not only sees the focal points of the psychosis, but how they can play off of those of the tohers.
     
  5. LLL

    LLL Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 16, 2000
    See, there's an aspect of his characterization that doesn't quite work. How can Palpatine understand aspects of human nature he himself shuns and won't let himself feel, well enough to exploit them?

    I mean, Anakin's desperate need for Padme` is pretty obvious. Palpy doesn't need a whole lot of insight to see how to exploit that. But in cases like, say, social niceties, or even more subtle social interactions than that--situations where it's very important for somewhat discerning people to think he's kind and concerned where he actually couldn't care less--well, Palpatine's a Sith. What in that background prepares one to understand well-intentioned people who also possess some degree of wisdom enough to fool them?

    I'm not saying he can't do it well. I'm saying that it's a weakness in the background of the character. There's no place for a brutally treated Sith to learn that.
     
  6. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    Palpatine's background is so murky, we can't even be sure he was raised as a Sith or came about it later... like in his early teens or even later. He could have had a 'normal' upbringing until he came into contact with Darth Plageous.
     
  7. LLL

    LLL Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 16, 2000
    OK, I started the Palpy challenge, but I put the story on the wrong board.

    If anyone is looking for it, it's moved to Before. (Thanks, Trace!)

    This mistake has been brought to you by a total brain fart.

    :oops:
     
  8. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

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    Mar 26, 2001
    LOL, I was wondering if that was being done in flashback.
     
  9. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2004
    This brings up a question about Sith Lords in general: Because Anakin was raised a Jedi, Palpatine is effectively the only 'true' Sith Lord we've ever officially met, post-Bane. How can we be sure political lessons and training in the art of cultural mimickry were not included in their training to become Sith? Their ability to hide would have required at least some knowledge of social infiltration, theoretically (but...not necessarily). There's no way to know: we never got to see how Palpatine was taught, and furthermore, even if we had, how can we be sure that training was typical of all Sith Lords? For all we know, Plagueis could have had different plans..

     
  10. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

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    Mar 26, 2001
    Has anyone read the Darth Bane book? I haven't gotten a chance, so have the feeling that I wouldn't be the best person to ask this. It is definitely a good question. Also, the Jedi are exclusively Jedi while the Sith have this secrecy that would demand, as it were, a day job. Is this strategic or no?
     
  11. LLL

    LLL Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 16, 2000
    These are indeed good points.
     
  12. Tolkiene

    Tolkiene Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2007

    "How can we be sure political lessons and training in the art of cultural mimickry were not included in their training to become Sith? Their ability to hide would have required at least some knowledge of social infiltration, theoretically (but...not necessarily)."

    Well, then Palpatine's upbringing must have been different from that of Darth Maul, whose main
    talent is fighting. Thus, no matter what GL says, it makes little sense to assume that Palpatine had an upbringing during which he was brutalised and ill-treated -- he would be able
    to have any sort of social skills, which he undoubtedly has.

    A theory I entertain is that Palpatine only became a Sith later on, having come into contact with Sith knowledge at some point in name during his life (I always assumed he hailed from a
    family of Naboo patricians).
     
  13. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Has anyone seen "The Omen"? Not that I think Palpatine's the son of Satan, but I kept having ideas of a Jedi foreseeing a threat arising from the realm of politics that would destroy all that they knew.
     
  14. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    [face_thinking] Yeah, but either that Jedi wasn't listened to or was killed before he could tell anyone, 'cause obviously they weren't prepared.

    Palpatine also had to be very good at masking his force sensitivity.
     
  15. LLL

    LLL Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 16, 2000
    I once had a fic about how he did that.

    But it was X-rated, so it no longer exists.

    Haven't seen "The Omen."

    (But I am going to see Natalie Portman's new movie tomorrow.)

    *hopes to someday get back and finish that challenge story*
     
  16. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 13, 2004
    Theoretically, this is really convenient for the Sith, but at the same time not convenient at all, because the post-Bane strategy requires secrecy above all else. It would have been to their benefit to actually be less secret as time went on, and use their 'day job' factor, their 'in the thick of it' factor, and their anti-exclusionary philosophies to build up a positive PR where none had previously existed. In other words, they could have been far more successful by simply winning the galactic popularity contest and Public Opinioning the Jedi into oblivion. (would've made the movies pretty boring though :p )

    As it stood, Bane's or whoever's insane strategy of never deviating from anything less the 100% secrecy turned them into the galactic boogeymen. It took over a thousand years and who-knows how much effort on the parts of subsequent Sith Lords to actually achieve the initial desired outcome of getting the galaxy to forget them. And even then, it wasn't a true forgetting, and of course the Jedi NEVER forgot. I'd go so far as to say the Clone War tactic should have been held off for another three centuries, at least, 'chosen one' or no. I mean, Palpatine went out on a ridiculously thin limb to get the Jedi wiped out. He's lucky to be alive a hundred times over. And even then, he didn't so much 'live' as 'survived,' and the same could be said for his Apprentice.

    If you ask me, without knowing anything about him, I'd say Bane was an idiot with a couple good ideas. It's a shame the former aspect survived more intact than the latter.
     
  17. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    ACK! Tomorrow is March 1 and I haven't written one word of the story I had planned to write for the challenge, and I'm too tired to start right now! :oops:
     
  18. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

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    Mar 26, 2001
    Good point about the galactic bogeymen. I think that the statute of secrecy tended to do more harm than good.
     
  19. LordNyax113

    LordNyax113 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Oct 11, 2007
    If I may chime in. Personally (and I'm prolly stating the obvious here), from what the story itself and real life comments have shown, I feel Palpatine is obssessed with power for the sake of gaining it, with a little bit of vengeance here or there.

    That's what he lives his life for. As cynical and harsh as this may sound, he probably was corrupted from birth. Maybe his parents were evil too. [face_thinking]
     
  20. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    I know there's the addage that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, but, there seem to be apples that fly instead of fall and travel many lightyears away from the tree of origin.
     
  21. LordNyax113

    LordNyax113 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Oct 11, 2007
    Well, I'm starting a story on the origins on Palpy. Not to answer the challenge, but just for fun. Look for it soon in Before the Saga.
     
  22. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

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    Mar 26, 2001
    I'm working on development of a possible vignette/short story based on a storyline in my Palpatine/OC love story.
     
  23. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    Well, I started a young Palpatine fiction, but not sure if it would qualify for the challenge.
     
  24. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

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    Mar 26, 2001
    Mine isn't young enough.
     
  25. Alexis_Wingstar

    Alexis_Wingstar Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2006
    Well, mine is a newborn... but it's just a short prologue in which he's just born and shows someone immediately changing his birth record.
     
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