Philosophy of the Jedi and Sith

The Force has a dark side. This is made clear by the PT itself, if not authorial quotes.

 

There are two sides to many things in life, Black and white, up and down, good and bad. In eastern philosophy where the life force is known as chi, they represent these opposites through the symbol of yin and yang. In the Jedi faith the force is split into the two halves of the light and the dark side. In a world where good cannot exist without evil and evil without good, Jedi take it upon themselves to keep the balance between the two halves by focusing only on the light side of the force.
I believe this maxim is incorrect.

That was a quote from one that supports your view. Luke defeated Anakin by manipulating the force through anger and was victorious but realized what he was doing was wrong. Obi-wan reached into the force and became one with it when he defeated Lord Maul. He reached out to the force as Yoda described it. "We are luminous beings, not this crude matter". The Force surrounds us and guides us".
There is no dark side or light side. Only individuals who would tap the Force itself. They make it good or evil.
Corruption in the heart makes the Force dark.
-Lord Turambar

 

It's not quite a comparable situation. Palpatine had stayed in office well past his term limits by the time he declared himself Emperor. It happened so slowly that your average Republican citizen didn't catch on until it was too late.

If corruption in the heart, there would still be corruption within the Force and not solely within the individual given that previous Sith would have spread said darkness.

 

As I said, the idividual who is corrupt in heart twists the Force into something dark and evil. And remember that evil is in the eye of the beholder. Don't be so eager to judge lest your actions be judged with the same scrutiny. We do what we must.
-Turambar

 

It is possible to have a world with only good when everyone has the same mindset.
Saying 'good cannot exist without evil' is a way to deal with the fact that there is no universal mindset. However, it can never be an excuse for the existence of evil.

 

Star Wars' eschatology doesn't lend itself to moral relativism given that we have the Dark and Light Sides of the Force as external, verifiable, and objective measures of morality.

 

It does lend itself to exactly that. Qui-Gon repimands Obi-won and reprimands him saying he has much to learn about the "living force", to be aware of his surroundings.
Morality was Qui-gon's compass. So it is with the force. -T

 

I think that the way the "force" is portrayed it is impossible to qualify its content.
-T

 

Right, but living in the moment and moral relativism aren't mutually exclusive. One could believe that looking towards the future is pointless but still believe that good and evil are objectively verifiable whether because they're handed down from on high by a deity or because you can sense the Dark and the Light within an energy field.

The Jedi are depicted as being able to sense the Dark Side within other people (to a certain extent) and within their environment.

 

There are two sides to many things in life, Black and white, up and down, good and bad. In eastern philosophy where the life force is known as chi, they represent these opposites through the symbol of yin and yang. In the Jedi faith the force is split into the two halves of the light and the dark side. In a world where good cannot exist without evil and evil without good, Jedi take it upon themselves to keep the balance between the two halves by focusing only on the light side of the force.

I believe this maxim is incorrect.


I don't. This does not make any sense to me. How does one maintain a balance by focusing upon one half and pretending that the other half does not exist or trying to suppress that second half?


Obi-wan reached into the force and became one with it when he defeated Lord Maul.


If Obi-Wan had really became one with the Force after his defeat of Maul, he would not have made so many mistakes as Anakin's Jedi master . . . or require another two decades of being Force Ghost Qui-Gon's student. And even after those two decades, he still had not learned his lesson - which Luke and Anakin ended up teaching him by the end of ROTJ.

 

Yep. Which is why it's great that the Jedi don't actually do what he had described.

 

The philosophy of the Jedi is very Calvinist. In Bushido the Way of the warrior is much clearer. There ARE detours along the way, There ARE causes that bring us away from the path, there are....things that arouse passion and great anger. Beware a single minded view.
The force is a living, moving entity. It surrounds us and guides us supposedly. In combat these truths mean more.
-Turambar

 

It's a paradox. Strength comes from determination. Sometimes if it touches you personally it becomes more clear....or clouded. Who knows?
What is life"? "Duty, Discipline, Death.
Legendary quote of Emperor Jimmu''''''''
-Turambar

 

The Jedi are in no way Calvinist given that they believe it ultimately comes down to choice which Calvinists believe to be an irrelevant falsehood given that God has already ordained who the elect will be.

The Jedi also acknowledge that there are things which arose great passions and anger. Yoda himself seems to feel devastated when he feels the pain caused by Order 66 and Obi-Wan seems devastated when he sees the dead Younglings. However, they control their emotions. It's closer to the Platonic model of the Tripartite Soul than the Calvinist or the Bushido model. Everyone feels desires, but a Jedi must be guided by their higher self, not merely act as a slave to every little passing desire.

 

And the higher self guided by a moral rightousness is Sith? I think not. And the Sith seem to believe they can SEE the future. The Jedi use their power when it suits them.
When a great wrong is done, we endeavor to correct it. This is the will of the Force. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
-Turambar

 

At that Moment He became one with the Force.
I did not say it was permanent. -T

 

No, under the Platonic model the Sith would be those who let their base desires take control. I do agree that the Sith believe they can see the future and thus presumably believe in pre-destination which would actually place them far closer to Calvinism than the Jedi who acknowledge that the future is always in motion and can't be foreseen completely reliably.

 

Ah my friend, we dance in the circle of philosophy. We could debate all night. In the end what do the Jedi serve? What is their moral code? Duty, Discipline, Death

 

Their ends are primarily to defend peace and justice (through the Republic) and follow the Will of the Force.

Their moral code has been rather explicitly spelled out over the years through the Jedi Code (which is more than just the "There is no... There is..." portion commonly referred to) and Yoda's teachings on Dagobah.

 

And my freind, how do they serve the Republic? through Duty, discipline, death
We seem to be agreeing on the code without agreeing on the conduct.
-T

 

They do it through those things in the films, however for the vast majority of the Order's history they do it through diplomacy and negotiation.

 

As Anakin described them, Aggressive negotiations?
-T

 

There was probably some of that, but judging by the beginning of TPM, it was usually a peaceful affair.

 

So then, They negotiate peacefully until they deem it time not to negotiate peacefully. Lol.
Have a good weekend Master debater.
-T

 

Basically, yeah. They negotiate peacefully as long as that will work, but will fight if necessary.

And thanks.