Plagiarism: Theft vs inspiration (Important reminder)

As an Amature author, I am very protective of my OC's, after all, I am the one who gave them life. I'm the one who told of their personality, their very being and if My OC is stolen... you bet I'm going to be PO'd....

 

And as for GMTA, the summary of TUF sounds like it borrowed many of the concepts the FFA has been developing for the end of the Vong war in our stories with just some of the details changed. (PM me or Spike if you're interested in seeing a complete list--and its a fairly big list--of all the unusual similarities. Just be warned that it will have MAJOR spoilers for TUF as well as any FFA stories set during the Vong war, i.e. "The Bounty Hunter's Story")

Hah, reminds me of when I was writing Dark Mirror. I started while the very early NJO was going on, and I ended up with a fewparallels.

In my story and the NJO, Anakin got killed off halfway through.
In my story, the middle section was called ?Dark Journey.? This had begun well before one of the middle books of the NJO called Dark Journey was announced.
In my story and the NJO, the good guys win when a main character becomes a conduit for the full power of the Force.
At the end of the NJO, Jacen looks like he?s about to go off and do what I had Jacen doing before my story started.
As with the NJO, none of the Solo kids in my story ever really managed to keep a solid relationship going.

Just some of the big ones...

 

If you have suspicion/proof of plagerism, bring it quietly to the attention of our Mods...

I just wanted to copy and paste this and emphasize that the operative word is "quietly".

I have been plagiarized--someone literally copied and pasted my "Anakin Skywalker Diaries" onto fanfiction.net, changed the name to "The Diary of Anakin Skywalker", and claimed it as her own.

I reported it to the staff there, who removed the story and banned the "author". I also sent the author a very nasty e-mail, as did a few of my friends. Breezy thought that it might have been stolen off a mailing list that she owns, and she made a statement that evening that "This story has been stolen--if I find out that the thief is a member of this list, he/she will be banned immediately."

But that's all that was done. We didn't humiliate the author in public.

I don't care what someone has done to you or how angry you've gotten--keep it private. It could have been a mistake. We have people on these boards who are inexperienced writers and we also have people here whose native language is not English. It is quite easy for them to have read something, been inspired by it, then inadvertently borrowed an idea to the point where the author feels ripped off. In that case all it takes is a PM to the author, "Can you please either change this or give me credit?" Now understand that I am not talking about copying and pasting. That isn't accidental--we all know that.

There was a situation recently in which an author whose native language is not English broke the rules by borrowing too much from a fic she had read. She made a mistake, she has been punished--no one is arguing this. However, the way it was handled--with the author being brutally ripped in her own thread as well as another social thread where she regularly posts, rather than having the incident quietly reported to the Fan Fiction moderators--was just as disgusting as the plagiarism itself. I understand the author's anger because I've been there. However, this behavior was not necessary.

Thank you.

*steps off soapbox*

 

There was a situation recently in which an author whose native language is not English broke the rules by borrowing too much from a fic she had read. She made a mistake, she has been punished--no one is arguing this. However, the way it was handled--with the author being brutally ripped in her own thread as well as another social thread where she regularly posts, rather than having the incident quietly reported to the Fan Fiction moderators--was just as disgusting as the plagiarism itself. I understand the author's anger because I've been there. However, this behavior was not necessary.

I had decided not to say a word about the story in question. But this - I'm sorry, but GIVE ME STRENGTH.

"Brutally ripped?????"

BRUTALLY RIPPED???

Do you even know what 'brutally ripped' would look like? Because I can assure that *that* was not it. Pointing out in the thread that the fic had been stolen (STOLEN - use the word, it was not BORROWED) was not someone being brutally ripped. There were two posts (yes one mine) saying that the story had been stolen. THAT WAS IT. The author of the real story said that she recognized her own work and alerted everyone to the fact it was a theft. It was NOT someone being 'ripped'. Being ripped would have involved personal insults, rude critique of any of her writing, etc. - none of which happened.

I don't agree with what happened in the social thread - someone jumped in when they shouldn't have, because they were upset on behalf of their friend. And because sitting around reading a lot of "poor you" posts to a thief can really burn on you, eventually. Yes it went too far and efforts were made to quickly stop more posting over it.

Frankly, after reading all the opinions people here have on plagiarism, I'm surprised that the offender received a light sentence and no real public accountability.

And anakin_girl - you're one to talk about public shaming, as on the first page in this thread you named your plagiarist. I see them as the same thing.

Look, I understand that people want to support their friends and not believe that someone has done wrong. But when given proof, tell your friend you still like her, that you will still remain her friend, but don't try to excuse her actions.

As many many people have said on this very thread, there are NO excuses for plagiarism.

-Kristi

 

Yes, she was brutally ripped. I really don't care if you like my terminology. It could have been handled quietly through a moderator, you chose to slam her in her own thread instead of considering the idea that it might be a mistake.

As I understand, this was not "copy and paste". This was a case of borrowing ideas. She made a mistake, and there was no excuse, none whatsoever, for sending people into her thread and into a social thread where she hangs out--literally stalking her, causing her to collapse and be sent to the hospital--because she made a mistake.

The author's native language is not English. She had to translate, which makes things more difficult. She may have only intended to borrow an idea. But you didn't give her the chance to explain that privately, or to say "I'm sorry". You chose instead to humiliate her in public, and called her very ugly names if I remember correctly from the thread. You also trolled on the social thread, causing a moderator to have to step in there.

I tried to make my statement quietly, but after your statement--after you have brutally ripped me--I am even further on her side.

She made a mistake, she is being punished. Why that isn't good enough for you I don't know. But if you start on me, I will bring a mod in here.

 

THis is the last thing I want to say about the whole thing.

And after this I am done discussing it. because its over.

I had decided not to say a word about the story in question. But this - I'm sorry, but GIVE ME STRENGTH.

Ok sure.

I don't agree with what happened in the social thread - someone jumped in when they shouldn't have, because they were upset on behalf of their friend. And because sitting around reading a lot of "poor you" posts to a thief can really burn on you, eventually. Yes it went too far and efforts were made to quickly stop more posting over it


How can you say you dont agree with it when you were one of the ones there doing it?

Look, I understand that people want to support their friends and not believe that someone has done wrong. But when given proof, tell your friend you still like her, that you will still remain her friend, but don't try to excuse her actions.

As many many people have said on this very thread, there are NO excuses for plagiarism

It's not the fact that no-one believed it happned. Its the fact that you and others came into another thread and flammed the member in question when she wasnt there to defend herself.

And no-one tried to excuse her actions.

And you are right, there is no excuse for it, but guess what...it happened and its over now. You might not agree with how she was punished but oh well, thats not your call. Bashing someone when there are not there to defend themselves is pretty sorry.

I can understand why some are mad, and that is thier choice, but the bottom line is that it is over, and punishment has been given. Your point was made, and noted. All I see here is people ranting and raving over the same thing over and over. Get over it, its done.

I would suggest that if you want to talk about it with the person pm them and do it in private. I am sure everyone here is capable of acting like an adult, and I am sure everyone here hates it when they are not treated as such. But you have to act like one to be treated like one.

She mad a mistake, and has been punished. If you think you are all gonna see someone get on their hands and knee's to ask for forgiveness then you are deffinalty in the wrong place.

Point is the author was appologized to, the thread was locked and she was banned. Thats her punishment. So be it.

I am done talking about this with everyone because all we are doing is going around in circles because people cant get over something. And frankly (as everyone here likes to say) I have better things to do with my time. I am suprised this is all some of you have to do with your time.

Edit: This is just my opinion as your words are yours. I do not know any of you and in no way dislike anyone. These are just my thoughts on recent actions. I would actually like to see this behind everyone and try to have some fun on the boards as it was intended to be.

 

I don't agree with what happened in the social thread - someone jumped in when they shouldn't have, because they were upset on behalf of their friend. And because sitting around reading a lot of "poor you" posts to a thief can really burn on you, eventually. Yes it went too far and efforts were made to quickly stop more posting over it


How can you say you dont agree with it when you were one of the ones there doing it?

All I said was that people should not be reported to the moderators for telling the truth.

That's it.

If that's "joining in", well, sorry, but we have VERY different ideas of what 'flaming' is.

And that's all I'll say in response.

-Kristi

 

*Wrenches control of the thread and angerly puts it back in it's place*

Right, all well and good then. Onward

How about OC's then? We fan fiction writers are borrowing from established characters and more often than not, created our own background (and sometimes main characters) to fill into (in our case) a GFFA. I for one am very protective of my OC's, they are my children... what about you?

 

All OCs are the property of the author and everyone who wants to borrow an OC should ask permission from the author first.

Anyone who has had an OC borrowed from them without permission has the right to be incensed, and should report the situation to a mod.

 

Yes, she was brutally ripped. I really don't care if you like my terminology. It could have been handled quietly through a moderator, you chose to slam her in her own thread instead of considering the idea that it might be a mistake.

Actually, I tried to report it to the mods first. And it is NOT that easy to find the mods when you're not used to posting on this threads - I've been a lurker for three years and I had to search and search for the mods, and I ended up e-mailing the moderators of the fanfic archive by mistake.

As I understand, this was not "copy and paste". This was a case of borrowing ideas.

You understood wrong. I've seen both fics - it was outright theft of lines, dialogue, etc. Huge chunks of prose taken from another author's story and posted into her own. Changing Obi-Wan to Anakin doesn't make it original.

She made a mistake, and there was no excuse, none whatsoever, for sending people into her thread and into a social thread where she hangs out--literally stalking her, causing her to collapse and be sent to the hospital--because she made a mistake.

Let me reiterate - give me STRENGTH. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. Collapsed and sent to the hospital - ha. And the person posting that? Talk about a SOCK!

The author's native language is not English. She had to translate, which makes things more difficult. She may have only intended to borrow an idea. But you didn't give her the chance to explain that privately, or to say "I'm sorry". You chose instead to humiliate her in public, and called her very ugly names if I remember correctly from the thread. You also trolled on the social thread, causing a moderator to have to step in there.

You don't remember correctly. I did not call anyone any names, other than saying she was a thief. Which is true.

Language translation has nothing to do with it.

I tried to make my statement quietly, but after your statement--after you have brutally ripped me--I am even further on her side.

Of course. And when she comes back, and steals from another author - maybe you? - will you stand by her again as well?

Again, regarding 'brutally ripped' - I'm still in awe that you think this is being brutally ripped. Because, believe me, this is NOT brutally ripped.

She made a mistake, she is being punished. Why that isn't good enough for you I don't know. But if you start on me, I will bring a mod in here.

Thanks for threatening me.

The problem with her 'punishment' is that without public knowledge there is no public accountability. Most everyone thinks the original author is persecuting her. How are people to realize that they shouldn't plagiarize if no one knows that it's being done?

Like I said, I don't understand this community. You're all out for blood if someone plagiarizes you, but if one of your members does it, no public mention should be made.

I'm going back to being a lurker.

-Kristi

 

Of course. And when she comes back, and steals from another author - maybe you? - will you stand by her again as well?

So if you ever make a mistake everyone should assume that you will do it over and over again? Cause to you that is what will happen. She made a mistake, I am sure she will not make that mistake again.

And honestly if someone did that to me, yes I would be extremly upset, but would let it rest once the person was punished.


Like I said, I don't understand this community. You're all out for blood if someone plagiarizes you, but if one of your members does it, no public mention should be made.

And once again you judge everyone by the actions of the few.

Again, regarding 'brutally ripped' - I'm still in awe that you think this is being brutally ripped. Because, believe me, this is NOT brutally ripped.

No but she is being bashed for something that has been taken care of.


The problem with her 'punishment' is that without public knowledge there is no public accountability. Most everyone thinks the original author is persecuting her. How are people to realize that they shouldn't plagiarize if no one knows that it's being done?

Actually I dont remember you being the author or the member in question. Just because you read the story or like it does not mean that you deserve he apology. It is between the two of them. Not them and you, and everyone else.

 

JESUS! What a bloody mess!

Makes me remember exactly why I left these boards - and not the least bit nostalgic for them.

I'm going to put in a very brief 2 cents, in response to a request to do so - but I doubt it helps. Reason has very little to do with what's being written here - but I'll give it a stab.

First off, as a result of a PM, I took a look at the two stories, virtually side by side, and - sorry TF.n defenders - but this wasn't a mistake or a case of 'borrowing'; this was cut and paste and make a few 'cosmetic' changes to disguise the result.

I don't know the person who posted this as her work, and have no wish to get acquainted, for I will say what I've said all my life; there is NO excuse for plagiarism. It's not like stealing money or a car or anything material; it's stealing a part of the writer's heart - and there can be no more heinous crime, if you're a writer.

As for the public condemnation, I'm unfamiliar with the social thread being mentioned here; don't do social threads, and never did. But I am constrained to point out that the plagiarism was posted publicly, and the plagiarist reaped the rewards publicly, so I have a problem figuring out why the theft should not be exposed publicly.

After all, if no one had ever noticed, the poster would still be basking in praise that should have belonged to someone else.

If I remember rightly, there was a case a couple of years ago, when the highly respected, and truly wonderful Jane Jinn came across a blatant case of plagiarism involving someone who STILL posts on these boards, and made her accusations on the threads where the plagiarized work was posted, as well as reporting to the mods.

And guess what! Nobody raised a single eyebrow, or a word of protest in defense of that plagiarist.

One has to wonder why there is such a difference now.

Interesting.

CYN

 

"Of course. And when she comes back, and steals from another author - maybe you? - will you stand by her again as well?"

So if you ever make a mistake everyone should assume that you will do it over and over again? Cause to you that is what will happen. She made a mistake, I am sure she will not make that mistake again.

I very much hope that she will not, if she's allowed back. I usually tend to think the best of people, but after finding examples in more than one fic - I'm sorry if I'm cynical that someone would change.

"The problem with her 'punishment' is that without public knowledge there is no public accountability. Most everyone thinks the original author is persecuting her. How are people to realize that they shouldn't plagiarize if no one knows that it's being done?"

Actually I dont remember you being the author or the member in question. Just because you read the story or like it does not mean that you deserve he apology. It is between the two of them. Not them and you, and everyone else.

I never said I deserved an apology. I don't. I do think that every single person that gave her positive feedback on her story should be apologized to, for being lied to.

Though I suppose a public apology doesn't need to be made - but a public *acknowledgement* of what happened would be nice to see. So that the original author could stop getting PMs about how she's so horrible to be persecuting this other writer. It's deplorable, IMHO.

Anyway, like I said, I just don't get this community.

-Kristi

 

This is my LAST statement on this PARTICULAR matter. Take your 'he flamed/she flamed' BULL **** to PM. Even though I'm not a mod I can lock this thread, and there *shockingly enough* other instances that have been over looked.

Cyn, how can that have happened? That's positively DISGUSTING! Is this a recent case? Is the story still aviable for comaparisome (Via PM please)?

You know, that plaigerism police link still works if it's off site... Anakin girl and I started a fic site and you bet we have ours 'registerd' with the PP...

 

I very much hope that she will not, if she's allowed back. I usually tend to think the best of people, but after finding examples in more than one fic - I'm sorry if I'm cynical that someone would change.

So, like I said, when you make a mistake you would understand if people thought you were going to do it all the time.

Though I suppose a public apology doesn't need to be made - but a public *acknowledgement* of what happened would be nice to see. So that the original author could stop getting PMs about how she's so horrible to be persecuting this other writer. It's deplorable, IMHO.

Pretty sure that was done in this thread.

hey you never pmd me back by the way...whats up with that?

 

I am a criminal lawyer. I agree with that punishment was given. Any criminal, no matter how bad has a right to a fair trial. Right now she can't

Of course. And when she comes back, and steals from another author - maybe you? A called your act terrorism. if she's allowed back. She does not want to come back.

 

I think one important thing needs to be kept in the forefront here. What Patty did was wrong; it was methodical, malicious and nothing short of emotional larceny. That's what plagiarism is. There are no justifications, no second chances. In something like this, impressions have been made, and I daresay a large percentage of the fandom will hesitate to read her fic again, the 'what if' ever in their thoughts.

Is it humiliating, having this brought up in public? Should she be made to feel embarrassed? To reiterate something someone else said: YES! Yes, she MUST be made to feel this way, not only so that *she* never does this again, but to serve as due warning to others. It is the only weapon we have in fandom; we have no legal protection for our work, no true authority to go to. What we learn is by word of mouth alone and therein lies our only recourse.

If Patty pulled this in school, she'd face expulsion; if she pulled this professionally, a lawsuit. She got off lightly, folks.

I have to go out of town for the night, but so as to not post to a thread and run, anyone who wishes to contact me in regards to this, please, by all means, email me at ariendawn@yahoo.com. I will repsond to all emails, regardless of content.

Sheltie

 

Last request.

Knock. It. Off.



Edit

The next post (post my 1:05PM edit) that deals with that particular instance or name calling will result in my LOCKING this thread until I can get Kit or AMs or Ren to do some snipping.

 

if she's allowed back. She does not want to come back. Last post close the case.

 

DarthBreezy - what is the link you were talking about, the plagiarism police? How does it work?

An interesting side note, I think a few years ago Paramount tried to ban all sites that hosted Star Trek fan fiction, because they believed the franchise books weren't selling well (because of the fan fic, I suppose). But because of the outcry, Paramount backed down. So if GL ever tries to stop fan fic, we'll just have to promise to boycott Episode III, huh?

I also find it strange that writers have to ask permission to borrow a fan fic author's characters but not a pro fic author's! I know if I wrote something, pro or fan, and it was turned into a fan fic site, it would be kinda weird. I don't know. Now I feel guilty for reading and supporting fan fic! It's an odd situation.

 

The mods have made their decision and they stand by it. This is not up for discussion. Some of you may approve or disapprove of our actions, but you have that right. We are not in the business of opening a thread and allowing people to publicly humiliate the plagiarist when he/she isn?t able to respond. Everyone has rights. If you want to flame her, do not do so on the JC.

Please listen to Breezy and get back on-topic.

 

Alright, I've asked Kit and Ams to come in and do some pruning.

Edit Thank you Ladies!

Plagersim Police (as provided by Kit earlier...) great site, especially for dealing with things that our own mods can't touch (off of TF.N)

I think the reason there is a differance in fan fic vrs Pro fic is that in fan fic, the authors aren't well known and are by far more easily accessable...

 

The matter has been dealt with appropriately. All three moderators made an unanimous decision regarding what happened.

Case closed.

Kithera

 

"So if GL ever tries to stop fan fic, we'll just have to promise to boycott Episode III, huh?"

Eep! I don't think I have the emotional strength to boycott Episode III, even if George turns the lights off for us.

As far as the discussion of borrowing OC's, I hereby ask that everyone ask me to use any of my OCs in their fics. I'll be happy to collaborate and give advice on how to write them.

Behold! It is in writing.

 

I'm with you DB . My OC's are like my children and I wouldn't want anyone to use them unless I gave them my permission. I would be flattered that someone enjoyed them enough to even want to use them in a fic, but there are only a few writers whom I would trust to handle them correctly. Having said that, it does seem funny that we feel that way even though we are borrowing GL's without his permission!