Playing in George?s Sandbox: Copyright Issues and Fan Fiction

Darth Irol it is!!! Approved!

 

I know I raced out to buy The Swarm War because of fanfic; if there was no SW fanfic, I would have waited longer, hoping to catch it secondhand at a lower price. LFL doesn't get any money from secondhand purchases.

I bet fic, ultimately, generates more money for the franchise. There will be a handful of readers who don't buy novels/comics/etc because they can get free material, but the enthusiasm that fanworks generate and the need to obtain source material for fanworks more than compensate.

 

I did the exact same thing. So they'll have at least 2 messages in their inbox about this story. Hopefully more.

 

So true, lol. I have had pro-fic in the past, and never enjoyed any of it, but here I am needing to run to catch up to all of you. Ergo pennies go here and there for the books that are being written.

Too entirely funny.

 

I brought my copy of Swarm War trilogy the same month TSW is to be found in the Bookstore!
And then I decided to write my major work here on TFN!
20 dollars!

 

Well, copyright law is hardly my speciality

But the basics are this: As you said, the owner of a copyright has exclusive rights to use the copyrighted material, including to create and sell "derivative works" such as sequels. I don't think there's any doubt that fanfics are derivative works that violate copyright. (The "fair use" doctrine applies to things like SW homages in movies or SW references on The Simpsons, but it doesn't cover full blown stories like fanfics.)

Any violation of the rights is infringement - it doesn't matter if the violation is for profit or not. In fact, the federal laws provide for "statutory damages" to the copyright owner when the actual economic damages are small.

The reality of copyright enforcement is simple economics, though. You enforce against for-profit infringers because their (illegal) profits get disgorged over to you - they're your (rightful) profits anyway. You also enforce against infringers who are cutting into your own profits substantially, even if the infringer's profit is minimal (bootleg DVDs) and you have to eat the cost of enforcement, just so you shut them down and force the commerce back to you. But there's no economic incentive to enforce against infringers who aren't making money and aren't really hurting your profts - it costs money to enforce and you're not gaining anything out of it. That's why LFL doesn't crack down on fanfic: it would cost them millions of dollars to enforce their copyrights, but there'd be no money to gain and no lost sales to pick up. And in fact, they'd probably just alienate a lot of their most devoted fans.

 

I hate to be the wet blanket here, (actually, no I don't , I'm always the black sheep), but a simple search at the U.S. Copyright website will reveal what is copyrightable and what is not, and I quote:



WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)

Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration

Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)

---

Now, I would take "familiar symbols" to mean something like a laser sword or, "lightsaber" if you will.

Meaning, a person could write a book about a group of people with telekenetic powers who carry laser swords and battle an enemy who also have powers and swords, and where's the infringement there? True, the names are probably trademarked, so no one could write something and call it Star Wars or use characters with names like Luke Skywalker, but neither copyright nor trademark protects "ideas".

Think of what GL addmitedly borrowed from to make SW. I didn't look at what this woman did, because the links come up dead for me, and I really don't care what she did. If it's a true copyright or trademark violation, then she'll get what's coming to her and I agree, she should have her head examined.

But, if you look and read carefully over the copyright law, if she didn't violate it, or forget her, if someone wants to write something and doesn't violate any laws, and some lawyers get together and pervert the law with money and threaten and cajole the little guy, (us), then what justice is truly being served?

I write music, have for 15 years, so I know a little something about what's supposed to be protected and what's not supposed to be protected. You can't take GL's works and use them for your own profit, but "Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles", means that the universe, any fiction universe...

[b]is not his to own. It is an idea.[/b] Obtuse expressions, such as: "Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression" are not ownable. Does someone who writes something in the "normal" universe of Earth [i]OWN[/i] Earth and everything else written in it mean a copyright violation? Does John Grisham [i]own[/i] lawyer stories?

 

There's a little bit about plagiarism, copyright law, and intellectual property in a previous Update (from February, I think?). I suppose this is as good a time as any to look into these issues more.

I think Lucas will most definitely order a cease-and-desist. Someone is making money off of his creations, which is ILLEGAL in the most obvious way.

What I don't think he'll do is order a cease-and-desist on fanfic in general. LFL has cracked down on people selling stormtrooper armor not really because they've been making a few bucks off his stuff, but because they could potentially be making a living off of their business. From what I've heard, fair use law allows people to sell trooper armor to a certain extent. Plus, LFL uses costumers for a lot of events, most especially the troopers. I highly doubt they'd clamp down on a major source of publicity.

In a way, fanfic is another great source of publicity for LFL. It keeps fans active and interested in upcoming material. With publication, however, I honestly don't know if the rules for making profits are much different. I'd say the first publication rights factor in a great deal - this woman already had her fic online, and now she's trying to sell it.

 

I love it when I'm right!

Thanks, Lex!

 

If George is smart, he'll have his lawyers send this woman a cease and desist letter, she'll be shut down, and that will be the end of it. He'd be foolish to do anything against all of us writing and posting for free. As someone said, he'd alienate a lot of his most devoted fans, and face it, what we're doing is basically free advertising for him. I'll guarantee that there was a much higher percentage of fanfic writers and readers than the general public lined up to see RotS at midnight. In order to enjoy fanfiction you almost have to be familiar with the original works. Goodness, we elevate their status to "canon," as if they were some kind of holy scripture.

I don't think what we're doing here is illegal. George owns the copyright; that give him the right to say what is and isn't allowable with his creations. As I understand it, he has established that he permits fanfiction that is reasonably family-friendly and not sold for profit. As long as we operate under the terms he's established, we aren't violating his copyright, because he has essentially granted us a license to use his copyrighted works under those terms. This woman broke the terms of the bargain, so should be stopped, but that doesn't reflect at all on those of us who have kept the bargain.

 

We've had a few good discussions on this subject--I think the one JadeSolo was referring to was:

What if George Lucas Hates Fanfiction?

Another one was posted about a year ago, but had good information in it:

Copyright Infringements

Both have links in them that are worth checking out.

I am not a copyright lawyer, and do not play one on TV, but I have researched the issue somewhat, and my understanding is this:

• There has not been a definitive court decision in the U.S. on where the boundary of "derivative work" lies. The narrowest definition would only cover an exact replica of the original work in another format, such as "Revenge of the Sith In Interpretive Dance," or "The Star Wars Radio Dramas," for that matter. The broadest definition would include SW fanfic as a derivative work of Star Wars--and possibly also include Star Wars as a derivative work of "The Hidden Fortress." The "derivative work" avenue of legal attack is the most dreaded one for fanfic authors, since if successful at, say, the Supreme Court level, it could wipe us off the map. However, it is also a rather unappealing legal path to take, since it's much more complicated than it looks at first glance. That, and unless you're the owner of *very* original copyrighted material, pushing this legal avenue might be shooting yourself in the head. (Matrix fanfic authors have to pay royalties to the Wachowski Brothers, who have to pay royalties to William Gibson, who has to pay royalties to the estate of Philip K. Dick, which probably has to pay royalties to the estate of Jules Verne.)
• As BrentusofGath said, it's very hard, if not impossible, to copyright general ideas, such as a brave space Rebellion fighting an evil Empire. People can, and do, create "knockoff" franchises all the time.


• It is extremely easy to trademark names like "Darth Vader," "Luke Skywalker," "Jedi Knight," "lightsaber," and "the Death Star."

What all of this means that it is perfectly legal to publish and sell fan fiction so long as you don't use any of LFL's trademarked names for characters, places, or things, and you don't copy the storyline of any of the films or other licensed material so closely that it appears you're simply recasting the old work in a new form. However, it is probably not good enough just to re-name Leia "Wanda" and run from there--you also have to alter the canon events of her life beyond immediate recognition, since otherwise you will have imported the story of the "old work" (GL's films) into your new work, and made yourself derivative.

So as long as your Star Wars fanfic has all original characters, all original locations, an all-original storyline, and does not contain the phrase "Star Wars," you're home free. Sell it if you want to.

(Bizarrely, there are some stories on TFN that would probably be found sellable--all-OC far future, distant past, and very-AU fics could well pass legal muster. Not that I feel inclined to tempt LFL's lawyers by giving it a shot.)

But *anyway,* most of what you'll find here at TFN is most certainly not legal, whether it's sold for profit or no, and neither is this very strange lady's very strange book (which I didn't look inside of, since the stupiditron readings I was picking up from it suggested that its contents were not compatible with human life).

This would-be Amazon author does actually concern me, however, since all it took was one lunatic Darkover fan (who sued Marion Zimmer Bradley over the rights to her own book) in order to convince a lot of creators that fanfic was bad, evil, dangerous, and likely to get them sued into poverty. Therefore, Every. Single. Fanfic author. Is an enemy of the publishing industry. Lord Lawyer! Do what must be done.

Err . . . sorry. That was parody and therefore protected free speech, but totally irrelevant.

Moving on.


A link to the full

 

You know, I ran into something about this woman's, er, book, or printed up fanfic, or whatever, a while ago, but then forgot about it. My brain just gasped What? What? at the whole concept of someone putting out fanfic for $$. Pity, because I had thought I was going to get to read fanfic about the Naberrie family the fanfic way: Free. Then I saw what it was, clicked back, and moved on.

When I logged on today and found this thread, I knew what woman and what book were being referred to almost instantly, before I even clicked on the link. Now, I wonder that it didn't show up in this way sooner. I first saw a reference to this book at least several months ago, if not more.

My opinion? (And granted, I too am not a copyright lawyer, or any lawyer.) I would imagine that the LFL lawyers would prefer to handle this matter out of court, and with a cease & desist letter. If the woman doesn't comply, then the lawyers would have to take legal action. But I think that most copyright holders would prefer to avoid that if they can, for financial reasons. Which is why they tend not to go after fanfic, even though they could. Though, granted, this is not your ordinary fanfiction scenario--money has entered the equation. The woman did cross that line when she put her fanfiction for sale on Amazon.

But ordinarily? As someone said in one of the comments on the Amazon page for this book, yes, theoretically, a copyright holder could go after someone for handing a copy of their fanfic over to their friend, but just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean you actually will. It's like killing a fly with a hand grenade.

I don't know that LFL, or Lucas, or his lawyers, would choose to crack down on all fanfic, in response to something like this. Like more than a few people have said, they *could*. They always could have, though they haven't. Yet. But I imagine they are aware that people who write fanfic tend to be the ones who are lined up first for the movies, and buy the books, and action figures, and the toy lightsabers...

However:

That said, I think I'll retreat to my *own* sandbox, where all the toys are mine, and all the copyrights too. This is probably just one reason why I'm not really cut out to be a fanfiction writer, despite my dabblings in it. It is nice to write something you can't publish, because, well, no pressure to publish it and legitimize it with the big $. But it's also nice to know your writing is legal.

 

Ok, whatever, I don't care if he doesn't take submissions (I'll enoy him ofr the rest of his life, untill he does). I followed the link to the "What If George Lucas Hates Fan Fiction?" thread, and saw that the woman stated that profit was only part of the reason she sold her books, but no one beileves her. I think profit was the only reason too. I'm trying to sell my books because of a lot of reasons:

1) I want some profit out off it

2) I want to get my career going

3) I want to share my story

4) I want to know what people think of it

5) The main reason that I want to sell my books is: I love Star Wars, and want to help its franchise

I have seriously worked through blood sweat and tears. I sweat, because I type so dang fast, I literally cry alittle because my brain is exploding, and I get so freakin' sleepy, that I bump into semi-sharp things, and cut myself. There!

 

I think that just my family alone spends enough on Lucas products that he'll know I'm a loyal fan.

Seriously, this was just stupid, plain and simple.

 

Hey. This is my first post at this forum, and since this is always an interesting issue, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

For me, one of the reasons I read so much fan fiction is because the official novels are very limited in the types of stories that can be printed. And because it's an ongoing timeline that often fast forwards a few years, sometimes that means skipping over lots of potentially great tales just to tell the one big crisis where the galaxy's completely falling apart.

Case in point, the NJO series. While I certainly respect the work that was put into the NJO, it's not my favorite period in the Star Wars timeline, and a lot of the characters don't interest me the way the ones from the prequels and classic era do. As such, I like being able to turn to fan fics when the official material for those two categories runs dry.

I also don't always want some massive adventures. A lot of the times, I find that more personal, character-driven stories are much more appealing than the great adventure. Things like Anakin dealing with his inner demons, Padme facing the issues with her family, or stories showing the life of a lesser known character - these are things that appeal to me personally. To be honest, I don't care what the masses want to read. I care about what I want to read. And if the official literature doesn't supply me with that, aren't I entitled to come up with an alternative? I think that's better than saying "to hell with it" and losing interest in the genre completely. Imagine if every fan did that - Lucasfilms would go bankrupt!

Another thing that absolutely fascinates me is crossovers. I love a good crossover. Part of the reason is that because science fiction and fantasy are so flexible, you can combine a surprising amount of fictional realms and still produce a fan fic that works. Star Wars and Star Trek are the obvious two, but I've seen it done well with things like X-Men, DC Comics, and I've even thought up a crossover with Mortal Kombat and the sci-fi show Lexx that works surprisingly well.

Obviously, these aren't stories that can be marketed to the general public. But does that mean they're worthless to tell? Absolutely not. One of the things that many critics of fan fics don't seem to grasp is that not everything is about money. I don't want to be a professional writer. It's a horrible, stressful job that can leave you broke and depressed very quickly when it doesn't work out. I'm not that passionate about writing; my passion is in video games and computers. But writing serves as an outlet for creative ideas that I want to explore. It also helps me get across my feelings about society, and explore issues that are interesting to me.

Of course, it's just plain fun too. Sticking solely to the canon limits the fun you can have. And if you're not going to have fun writing your stories, why write at all?

I'm not ashamed to admit I write some stories which would be perceived as "smut" fics. A lot of it even falls in the category of "slash". And while part of it does fulfill a personal goal of mine to promote tolerance (don't let anyone convince you all slash is worthless; for some of us, it's a very serious, very personal issue), there are just times when I write something simply for the enjoyment. I'm weird like that, in that I don't care about orientation. If two people fit in my eyes, they fit. If they don't, that's the end of that. And I like being able to express that view in a story.

Finally, there's my all time favorite catgeory: AU. Alternate Universe stories are a blessing to fans everywhere. It's one thing to say to yourself, "You know, I wonder what would have happened if Anakin had killed Palpatine instead of attacking Mace". It's a whole other ballgame to actually sit down and write that story. That doesn't mean you're out to replace the canon, or "desecrate" it somehow. All it means is that you have a question you know the canon will never answer. So, you set out to answer it yourself. Not to make a profit, but just to have the satisfaction of knowing yo

 

it makes me scared, want to cry, and incredibly nervous.

you think that will work?
we're in the middle of a lawsuit; crawling back on our hands and knees and licking their shoes is definetly NOT going to help.

sorry, dear.

what the heck?

good question: NO! i'd ban it from my store. do you think we could hold concentrated protests in front of stores all over the nation protesting this? will it work and show that the rest of the sane world knows the difference between WE and SHE?

i think we're officially her enemies now. who's with me?

no....[Padme]how could you say something like that?[/Padme]

well said.

i'd help, but i'm too far away.

When you put it like that....that can kinda give us hope.

*throws confetti in the air*

-SoL

 

My favorite part of the book (from what I've seen on amazon) was on the back cover it talks about a "new" character: Ryoo Naberrie. Um... new? Last I heard, she was in both Episodes 2 and 3. (Sorry, that point has been bugging me for a while!)


Actually, I heard about this issue on Friday, told the mods about it, and then started this thread on Saturday. It's interesting that it's been up for a while but only got noticed on Friday (from what I can see.) Seems like blogs got a hold of it and started ranting about it and then word of mouth quickly spread.

And I'm glad to know that tF.n isn't worried about this even though they're mentioned on the copyright page.

Everyone has been making good points and hopefully Uncle George will keep letting us crazy, rabid fans keep writing.

 

Thanks for letting us know, Leona. I wasn't sure how this book thing was going to be treated--like a bootleg DVD, where the site that carries it can't even be mentioned, or what.

I should have known that the book would be treated differently. After all, people actually *buy* bootleg DVD's.

 

Honestly, I do not see how this even gets on George Lucas' radar. He is much too important and pre-occupied to care about some piece of junk that is not even in the top 15,000 on Amazon.com. Furthermore, if I were GL I would fire whatever lackey wasted my time withsomething so insignificant as this. This book was written by an idiot, not a reputable author like Stephen King or Tom Clancy. The content of this book is so bad that it just serves to make fanfiction look "stupid." There is no way anyone at LucasFilm or any of their subsidiaries are going to waste their time "worrying" about this.

 

Problem is that if she seems to get away with it, others might think that it's okay to write something and put it up on the big amazon board to sell. I can imagine that Lucas's people already know about it and are likely writing the cease and desist letter right now. He's very protective of his copyrights.

 

Well BigGuy219- that is what already happens. There already people in George's empire that oversee such issues. That never really was the point at this time.

The point is that they have allowed us to continue, for the mostly likely reason, as someone else pointed out, stopping such activity would garner them nothing but trouble, and perhaps a good deal less of a fan base to keep them going. Should George ever change his mind about this, it would be those people that would be figuring how to stop us.

I think the real fear, wasn't that Mr Lucas was going to do such a thing, or that he sits and reads the internet book sites to see if anyone else is doing this, because he already has a team of lawyers to do such a thing, you can count on it. The point is where one person is this brainless and stupid, puts everyone else that is here honestly with no intention to ever make money off of Mr. Lucas, at some risk of someday having to stop something that gives them fullfilment and enjoyment. If we get our own original idea, more power to us, but not off of him. The real point and fear is where one is this stupid, a 100 others just as stupid lurk and at what point DOES that put the rest of us at risk?

Healer Leona has come to calm the issue and say that right now, someone has said we have nothing to worry about, but this does sort of shake people up.

 

Noelie - There is nothing anyone can do or say to convince me that George Lucas, or anyone working in his name, cares about fanfiction. Fanfiction does not compete with Lucas publications. Has anyone ever encounterd fanfiction so good that they've suddenly said, "Hey! This is great! I'm never going to have to buy another Star Wars book again!" No, of course not, and the folks working for Lucas know that. Fanfiction falls under "good will." They allow it, because not allowing it would be a public relations nightmare. They're not going to sue some kids (most fan fiction writers are children) and have George look like some bitter old man trying to control his fanbase. Even if some people try to sell their fanfiction, it just would be "bad for business" to try and shut down all fanfiction. And even if that did happen ... what is the real danger? Sure, large databases like this one would probably shut down to avoid risking TheForce.net's lucrative advertising revenue, but with the vastness of the internet there would be no way to reach everyone, and if they did ... what then? I don't know too many fanfiction writers with millions of dollars in assets that can be seized in a lawsuit. If it ever got that serious, which I believe it never will, then there's the whole option of webservers that are based in countries (such as China) that have no respect for our copyright law. Fanfiction will always live.

 

That's a good point. Most of us are just your ordinary average joes looking for a good story. We have nothing to give to Lucasfilms if they ever went after us. Sure, LFL could slap a writer with a law suit, but how on Earth would they expect that person to pay the fine if they have no substantial financial assets? I know it's not nearly the same thing, but it reminds me of the RIAA sueing children and elderly people for downloading music. There's nothing to accomplish in it, other than making yourself out to be this evil, bloodthirsty corporation.

Then there's the fact that there are thousands of fan fiction writers scattered all over the Internet. Who knows how many sites there are, and new ones are created every day. Star Wars is just too massive a fandom, and it needs its fans too much to alienate them like that. And why should they? Like various people have pointed out, fan fiction that's written only for fun does absolutely no harm at all to LFL. I don't even remember hearing about anyone ever trying to profit off of SW fan fics before that moronic woman came along. LFL need only look at how many fans reported her to see that fan fic writers and readers aren't their enemy.

It's funny, because I generally don't see other fandoms make as much of an issue as Star Wars. Fan fiction based on TV shows are usually tolerated very well, and I've seen some instances where the writers actually encouraged viewers to read fan fics if the TV season or the show itself is nearing its end. That applies to certain video game series as well. Like movies, game developers can take years to deliver the next installment of the series. Reading and writing fan fics based off series like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy keep us from getting bored with the series while we wait for the next game. Fan fic in general can also serve the purpose of luring in few fans. To use Gilmore Girls as an example, I was vaguely familiar with the show before it started airing on ABC Family. But it was reading some stories based on the show that really made me want to sit down and watch it. Now I'm a loyal fan, and though I continue to read fan fics, I still watch the new episodes of the show every Tuesday.

 

Maybe the Lori Jareo thing isn't as innocent as it looks. In other words, not so stupid? A bad PR stunt gone wrong? Maybe she and her husband want to challenge copyright laws in the US.

Go read here:

http://inversereality.livejournal.com/

There are questions to be raised about open sourcing, leftist leanings, and challenge to existing copyright laws.

**************

There's something that's been mentioned somewhere (I've done a ton of reading about this situation in the last few days), but basically one has to protect one's copyrights and esp. trademarks, or one can lose ownership to them. Just pick up a copy of the magazine The Writer's Digest, and you'll see from the "ads" what I mean about trademarks.