ST Plot Holes In The ST

I don't think Luke told that story but he story is out there.

We know Leia was force out of the new Sentate because it was discovered Vader was her father. So it's safe to assume in some way the story was out there.

Remember she grew up hearing stories of the rebellion and the heroes, in TFA she is playing with a rebel action figure she made and when she meets Han she knows who Luke is so yeah stories about the crazy stuff he did must have gotten out.

Especially since he started a Jedi training school

 

Rey knows the stories, as she knew about the Falcon, Han Solo, etc, before TFA. She never met those legends herself, but the story was passed on to her, and I guess to many others as well, as it was a big thing. The tale of the rise and fall of Vader, and the tales of the Rebels.

In a way, Rey is a reflection of the audience.

 

As others have pointed out the ST establishes that regular people have heard some of the tales from the OT. Rey knew of Luke Skywalker & also Han Solo. Why couldn't she know of the redemption of Darth Vader by his son?

Of course it is. It's a discussion about the points people raise, & how they do or don't constitute plot-holes. Every thread like this in the other forums have people questioning whether certain things are plot-holes. Why should this one be any different? Sorry if people disagreeing with you is inconvenient.

Yes, it's so minor & insignificant almost no one noticed it. It doesn't undermine the plot of the movie at all. Don't take my word for it though.

Personally I'd stop sneaking the blade into the discussion. It's a closed topic.

"Evidence" that collapsed like a house of cards.

Accomplish? Nothing, except to engage in some good robust SW conversation. Plot-holes & inconsistencies are an interest of mine in all of the movies. I'd like to see someone point out an actual plot-hole or two.

That has it backwards. You can't throw up some gripe & then ask the movie to disprove it. That's just lazy. If you propose a plot-hole, you provide the proof. Then things get reversed. People can scrutinise & test your plot-hole to see if it has any holes of its own.

 

So you have no examples from the film that would disprove any of the holes listed. Ok then, moving on.

 

Many examples have been provided. Perhaps that's why in your frustration you keep trying to set rules that work in your favor. The latest is trying to place the burden of proof on the movie, rather than on yourself.

 

um....I used the movie to prove my points. I don't even know what know what you're trying to say anymore. Like I said, i'll just leave you to it. Whenever someone has anything to add to the discussion, I'll be here.

 

Nah, you've just pointed out things you don't like, or were a "bit of a stretch" in your opinion.

 

These plot hole threads are usually mostly full of things that don’t really qualify as plot holes.

 

I am sorry but I disagree. In a desperate situation when someone suddenly knows someone else without any rational explanation it is indeed a plot hole. You can paint it blue, ban me, warn again but the Maz Poe one is exactly what is called a gap in the story against the flow of logic

By the way, for me this is the official definition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole

 

You're ignoring rational explanations like the one above. Or simply that given she's a Resistance sympathiser it makes sense for Maz to know some Resistance members. Poe probably more likely than any other since Leia clearly sends him out as her envoy. Maz is also longtime buddies with Han, who is Leia's husband & Leia & Poe are close. For Poe to be in Maz's orbit of association is close to the least plot-holey pairing you could think of.

Finally, if we were to say this example of yours is a plot-hole then I don't think the term sufficiently covers the astonishing coincidences of Chewie & Yoda, or Vader once having R2 as his on-board astromech & building 3PO as a present for his mother. So that now in ANH on the Death Star you have Vader's old master running around, & his son, his daughter, two of his old droids, his future son-in-law, & the Wookiee pal of his former Jedi colleague. For those examples instead of plot-hole like your paper thin Poe/Maz example, how about "plot-canyon" ?

 

Indeed. I don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

 

Don't ask.

 

I think before the thread can move forward, there has to be an agreement for the standard. Are we gonna follow the official definition of "plot hole"? Otherwise, this thread becomes what most others have become, some variation of fanclub wars.

 

@Blastaar
I don't get what's so complicate about it. If an event of the movie contradicts something established in the movie itself, that's a plot hole. Since TLJ is frankly quite elastic in what is established and what is not, finding actual plot holes is almost impossible.
This thread has become an exercise in semantics

 

So thats a "no" on there being a standard in which to base arguments on?

 

But it seems to me that the standard is already clear to virtually everybody.

Is it really so important, by the way?Once you have pointed out something, explaining clearly what you're talking about, it doesn't really matter whether you call it plot hole or in some other way.

 

All I was suggesting is that we agree on the definition of a plot hole. That way, if someone lists something that meets all the criteria, their argument can't be shut down with "thats not a plot hole, you just don't like the movie" or "thats not a plot hole, thats just an inconsistency". Its a way of keeping things honest between both sides. Its also one of the reasons I suggested the thread be renamed to "plot holes in the ST". I liked TFA, so my finding a plot hole in that film has nothing to do with my opinion of it. I love the first badboys movie, but there is a massive plot hole smack in the middle of the story.

The best exchange i've had so far is where a poster proved me wrong by pointing out an actual line that destroyed my argument. It was a legit shut down, thus I haven't thought of the "finn mopped the tracker room" convo as a plot hole since. When someone takes it to personal jabs and strawmen, that just feels like gatekeeping. I'm not interested in arguments like that, which is why I suggested there be a standard to base points on. If there's no standard, then I personally don't see the point of my participating. No hard feelings from me on that front.

 

Force ghosts affecting the physical world could unravel the story going forward. How could Vader or Palpatine deal with Obi-Wan and Yoda wielding lightsabers and force powers as ghosts yet, not able to be physically harmed themselves? What about all the Jedi ghosts who fell due to order 66 using the force affecting the physical world? It puts everything on a really weird trajectory going forward. That's why I can't see GL initially intending Obi Wan to have that power despite sitting on a log or moving a branch. Those instances most likely are closer to gravity or sound in space--not with the purpose of changing the entire dynamic of the force stories going forward.

 

And that makes me think "so why did not Yoda come to stop Ben in that night? Why does he only show up now and to burn a sacred library*?". This also caused a lesser effect on Yoda's death "he died but don't worried he still can fight/burn things/etc", ghost Yoda and Obi Wan was just there in ROTJ to give some advices and always looked to me they had a limited time.

*That tree also was important to AHCH-TO caretakers

 

I agree, we don't know the rules, but seeing that on screen put things on dangerous footing in my opinion. I understand that we've only seen three (and I pray it never becomes a large netherworld gathering) , but if Qui-Gon made contact, it's possible that others could . That said, simply having those three and possibly Luke doing weird things in the physical world would take away from the mystical nature created in the OT; and because of that I hope they don't try to explain it in a way to makes it scientific and measurable.