ST Plot Holes In The ST

Uh huh, and then Kylo told her he slaughtered children like her because Luke was mean to him, and Rey took him at his word and attacked Luke. Then she jetted off to save him, never once thinking, "hmmm, one week ago I watched him slaughter his loving and forgiving dad, and before that he slaughtered a bunch of people exactly like me. But I'm sure I'll be successful here, we're the same!"

 

I understand your point. I think that when she reads Kylo's mind (when they touch fingers), she sees his future and this is when she is wants to try to save him.

Or she was lured to think she could do so. This happened just after Rey entered the dark-side grotto to ask the Dark Side who their parents were.

She mentions to him in the elevator that she saw his future and that she knows that when the time comes he will go back to light.

Could very well be a dark side thought.

 

Sure, in the grand scheme of things I'll write it off as a part of Snoke and Kylo's manipulation of Rey and she was just naive and foolish.

But in all honesty, I think what really happened is RJ wasn't very thoughtful in writing for Rey. She should have recognized this, hence it's a plot hole.

 

Cool, but hey, in the grand scheme of things, what was the message this movie had to our main characters? It was that they fail when they do not listen to other people, that they fail when they try to do all by themselves.

Poe learns that he needs to be careful of his impulses. He was wrong the whole movie, his recklessness caused a lot of deaths.

Finn also learns this lesson, he does a lot of idiot stuff and by the end of the movie he has learned how wrong he was the whole time. He is the responsible to having DJ hearing the escape plan and then telling that to the FO, causing lots of deaths.

Rey also learns the same lesson, and this is where I think this fits. She thought she saw his future, she thought she could be the hero of the day by bringing him back to the good side, she thought she could succeed where Luke failed.
She was naive, arrogant, and had to learn a lesson.

 

That's not the full picture at all though.

That's not how it's framed in the film. The whole point is that she starts off hating him as a monster, but as their bond deepens she begins to feel a level of understanding with him, and when Luke continues to not give her what she needs - either in help or the help the galaxy needs - she begins to believe that Kylo may still have light left in him, and if she could turn him - which the vision sparked by their touch shows her will happen - like young Luke Skywalker was once able to turn the most hated man in the galaxy - he can help turn the tide against the FO.

She's seen them fighting together and killing Snoke. She thinks she is young Luke, and Kylo is Anakin.

She's wrong, but she also knows that Luke was told he was wrong and that Anakin would never turn.

So when Luke refuses to take up the saber she offers him, and given she has yet to realise she possesses what she needs to turn the tide, she (in her mind) has no option but to try and turn Ben Solo - he is her last hope. Again, she's wrong. That's not the point. She's right to think why she does on many levels - but she lacks the wisdom not to go.

 

Isn't this a thread to vent about plot holes? I wasn't talking about the message of the movie, although if you want to go there, I got the message that our heroes aren't super smart from this movie. It was loud and clear.

Yeah, it's Rey's lesson. It still doesn't make sense. Rey related to the guy that killed people exactly like her without ever even thinking about the people exactly like her that he slaughtered. It's not really explained by naivety. It isn't naivety that compels someone to be like, "hey guy that slaughtered all of my kind - come hang out with me and let me fix you." We have to write it off as naivety because this is what RJ gave us and we don't have a choice.

I mean, you're just repeating the plot. I've seen the movie. That she doesn't think about this still seems like a plot hole and a huge oversight on RJ's part.

She sees light in Kylo, and never once questions the part where right after Luke "attacked" him in his sleep he slaughtered children like her just because they were like her.

I can see that this character arc worked for you. It just doesn't for me. I think it's silly and inconsistent and also clear that Rey's arc wasn't really RJ's focus imo.

 

She knows the risks. She does it anyway. She believes Kylo will turn. She’s wrong. That’s not a plot hole. Him killing the other padawans is something she’s known since Han talked to them on the Falcon and the least immediately monstrous thing he’s done. She’s already factored in his monstrousness and murderousness. She knows Vader was the same and Luke could turn him. You don’t have to like it, but that is not a plot hole.

 

I got the feeling that she was thinking "I can be better than Luke, I can turn him."... just a lot of arrogance from her.

But hey, I am cool with your point of view, there are no right or wrong views here.

For me it would be hard to understand this too if it was in real life, but I guess am much more forgiving for movies.

 

Not acknowledging the elephant in the room is the definition of plot hole to me. Kylo kills people like Rey because they're like Rey, and Rey never even acknowledges it or thinks of it. I think that's a reflection of RJ not thinking of it too deeply.

 

Ok, I think RJ has thought very deeply about all of it, and her motivation is clear and understandable in the movie. But agree to disagree.


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Just checking. Is this the plot holes discussion, or the "I don't approve of a character's judgement." thread?

 

Maz kanata and Poe have never met yet talk like besties
Maz turns up out of nowhere
Rey somehow turns up on the falcon
Luke should have had a green saber Kylo just destroyed the blue one but if luke wants to tease Kylo then fine but it just didn’t work as blue from a character or director clue pov
If Luke never wanted to be found who made the map? Don’t tell me it was R2!

Worst Star Wars film ever made EVER.
Plot holes for days.

 

There wasn't a tracking device on the Raddus. The crew was also challenged that the problem was any StarDestroyer has the capability to track them. Size of the tracked craft wasn't mentioned so I don't assume it has an impact. Sure maybe its not a plot hole but it introduces a problem that no ship can escape the First Order as they can be tracked through hyperspace. It is a technology advance that needs a counter measure otherwise it gives the First Order an upper hand thats near impossible to combat.

 

Or it's a "I don't like what you consider to be a plot hole, so let's debate the meaning of plot hole" thread.

When I see something super obvious that should have been at least mentioned by the characters but isn't, I think the writer missed the boat on that one.

 

Sorry, unnecessary and unhelpful snark.

 

Apparently.


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Good lord, if people didn't feel the need to try and disprove an OPINION, I would have had one post in a thread of tons of posts. Don't blame me for what the thread has become. I'm not quoting anyone over and over to try and disprove their opinion.

 

You get things like this and people still question that bots/trolls didnt alter the RT score.

 

1 - how do you know? In TFA Maz clearly knows Leia and the Resistance.

2 - they call Maz. I don’t know if you know how communications work. Presumably any of the holograms in the previous 7 movies are also plot holes?

3 - Rey is picked up by Chewie after she escapes in Snoke’s escape craft.

4 - the Blue saber works better thematically, in terms of Luke’s arc and is a hint he’s not really there - one that Kylo misses because he’s blinded by hate.

5 - Lor San Tekka and the church of the Force track down a map to the Jedi temple where Luke is rumoured to have gone. Luke gives no one a map.

6 - hate the film by all means but in terms of plot holes, every word you just said was wrong.

 

The characters in the film aren't familiar with what your personal assessment is likely to be of their judgement of character. So they are unlikely to justify their choices to you in their dialgoue. You aren't even a character in the movie, so it would be foolish for them to try.

Source?

 

I don't know why you insist on continuing to argue with me. We see it differently. I'm not assessing Rey's stupidity, which I agree was more or less RJ's point.

I'm saying that acknowledging something so obvious should go without saying, but from the movie I don't think it even occurred to RJ. When you have a mass murderer that kills people like our protagonist because they're like our protagonist, I expect our protagonist or someone to point that out before our protagonist runs off to put herself at that character's mercy. It's not about smarts, it's just about basic plot.

 

How did Benicio Del Toro know what the resistance and Admiral Holdo's secret plan was? For that matter why was it a secret at all? Why not just tell Poe unless you think he's a spy?

If Luke doesn't want to be found why did he create that map and if he didn't create it who did? I thought the clear implication was that Luke was behind R2D2 waking up or at least there was some connection to Luke being gone and R2 being dormant and having the missing piece. If that's not the case then who did make the map and why did R2D2 wake up at the end?

The lightsaber still makes no sense. So now we see in flashbacks here that Ben Solo had the Anakin/Luke saber back when Luke was training him. So how did Luke/Ben get it originally from cloud city and how did Maz get it from Ben? For that matter in TFA during the force vision we see Kylo Ren in all his glory with the Knights of Ren surrounding him as they kill the Jedi students. In the flashbacks in this film it is implied that Kylo was still Ben at this point and he doesn't appear to have his Kylo Ren schtick going on yet. So which is it? For that matter where are these Knights of Ren? And Luke "trying to kill" Ben was enough for Ben to kill all of Luke's students?

For that matter what made Ben go dark originally. We are told Snoke had a role, but what exactly was it. Both Luke and Leia appear familiar with Snoke so who was he and how did everyone know him?

If you can go to lightspeed and destroy an entire fleet why wouldn't everyone put some ships with just droid pilots and do that all day long? Why not do that to destroy Death Stars?

How did Rey get back to the falcon and then know where to go and get to Crait?

Luke makes a pretty good case for the Jedi should end. No one ever makes a good case for why they should continue.

If anyone who loved this movie could address even one of these questions I would be pretty greatful.

 

Why do you keep saying he killed them because they're "like Rey"? Has anyone said that? Doesn't it seem more plausible that after Ben's apparent murder of Luke that the divided academy had a fight between those defending Luke and those defending Ben?

 

I think there’s some e confusing plot holes with things you don’t like going on here (which seems to be all the film in some cases).