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Discussion Plot Holes In The ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by zackm, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Apparently once a janitor always a janitor. It's a vocation that really sticks. Henceforth let's refer to the other main characters of the Saga as farmhand, slave, pirate, gambler, scavenger, fishmonger (for Raddus. Made that one up).
    The irony is that "janitor" is far more noble than most of those. Esp for a young trainee soldier before he's put into full time service. And many of those other characters had those former roles referenced in the story after they'd left them behind, like Finn has on just a couple of occasions.

    Finally, should we issue a formal apology to any professional janitors who may frequent these forums? Bcs reading the discussion over the past few years, anyone would think that a janitor (even as a role for young person) is the lowest form of deadbeat job known to man. One that's an embarrassment to be associated with, & one that creates a far bigger stir than even those more dubious ones listed above.
     
  2. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Yeah Finn has been enslaved in the first order.

    The lowest formula would be any position within this faction, which he breaks free from.

    The first order is akin to gang stalking(I posted this in another thread, too)

    THAT would be lowest for of job. Finn CAN move up in ranks in the first order, but chooses to defy what they stand for, and leaves. He realizes what a trap for the mind it is.
     
  3. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    *Custodial engineer. :)
     
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Replied to in the diversity thread. Hope that's ok.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  5. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    OK. Saw the scene on YouTube. He does say sanitation. Maybe it’s a joke, but if it is he makes a similar response in TLJ. If not, well, he did become an elite combatant by the time of TFA. So if the literary SW world shows him to be an elite combatant, it doesn’t conflict with the movies. He’s part of the Stormtrooper Corps as an armed soldier beig lead by Ren and Phasma on an important mission.

    If he started out low and rose, that’s a recurring theme in SW. Luke, Anakin, and Rey start low and rise. Plagueis, Palpatine, Dooku, and Vader are high and fall.
     
  6. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Finn's first combat mission was the attack on the village in Jakku. He was in the First Order, for years doing menial tasks, while at the same time having lessons and learning the job to be a stormtrooper.

    As soon as he graduated, he was assigned to his first mission, and he decided that he could not shoot the innocent villagers.

    FINN
    I'm not Resistance. I'm not a hero.
    I'm a Stormtrooper.

    Like all of them, I was taken from a
    family I'll never know. And raised
    to do one thing...

    But my first battle, I made a choice.
    I wasn't going to kill for them. So
    I ran.

    Right into you. And you looked at
    me like no one ever had. I was
    ashamed of what I was. But I'm done
    with the First Order. I'm never
    going back. Rey, come with me.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  7. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    The book also reveals that Finn was training as a cadet on the Supremacy and that cadets were made to do "droid work."
     
  8. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Before TLJ was released the rule was that movies trump books, comics, novelizations etc.

    NONE of that is mentioned in the movies.

    So was Finn's time on the supremacy before or after his time on SKB?? before right??? So he graduated training, and got placed in an elite Stormtrooper unit....a unit known as SANITATIONS?!?! The books and the movies are all over the place.

    What kind of supreme leader trains troops on his personal vessel?? And what kind of military gives its cadets/recruits access to top secret areas??

    Using things from books that are contradicted by the movie/not mentioned in the movie isn't exactly great for debate in a discussion about the movies.



    Again if his time on SKB was after his time on the supremacy. He was stationed on SKB when he was on his first combat assignment....that same movie he says his role on SKB was sanitations! He was a stormtrooper in a custodial position.
    In the real world there are soldiers who are cooks, mechanics, human resoures personnel etc...they also see combat occasionally but that doesn't change their primary jobs.
    The comics/novels directly contradict TFA therefore TFA should considered prior to consulting comics
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Bunai and Blastaar like this.
  9. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    It's not contradicted by the books or novels. He's trained on Supremacy (where all/most Stormtroopers train), he is given Sanitation duty during his training and his first assignment is on Jakku.
     
  10. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    It doesn't contradict anything in the movie. It's just additional information. Canon information.

    The Supremacy is the FO's capitol. It's basically a mobile planet. It has manufacturing facilities and enough supplies to support the FO for years in addition to trooper training facilities and Snoke's quarters.
     
  11. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Exactly. Just because it’s in the movie doesn’t mean there’s a contradiction. A contradiction is Owen Lars’ being the brother of Obi-Wan. That’s a contradiction between a novel and the movies. Or Yoda being the master of Kenobi. That’s between movies—until AOTC and the Younglings retcon.

    You most certainly can change your MOS.

    http://work.chron.com/change-army-mos-11783.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  12. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Now that I've got the movie on digital, I quickly looked at the Ahch-To timeline to see if it contradicts the 18 hours fuel timeline. Nothing in the movie indicates Rey was on Ahch-To for longer than 18 hours. It actually shows a single day fairly clearly.

    We see very early morning for the first lesson. Then a morning rain shower. Overhead sun while Rey is training with her staff. Sun set for her second lesson. Then she leaves that night.

    So we can officially put that "plot hole" to rest.
     
  13. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    nope, I did that weeks ago. If you scroll back and look, I even pointed out the day cycle. Rey's time on achtoo not lining up is just another plot hole.
     
  14. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    What events line up with what days/times?
     
  15. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    I already did all of this. Scroll back if you want to see.
     
  16. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    The same thing happens in TESB with the Luke/Yoda timeline and the Han/Leia/Chewie timeline. The retcon was that time was different on Dagobah because of how the planet connects with the force or something. We can easily imagine something along these lines...

    ...that is if there's really a problem with the timeline in TLJ so yes i too want to know what events doesnt fit? Havent seen the movie since end of january.
     
  17. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    There is never a time period that is set in ESB. Nobody says "we have 2 days to do this" or "18 hours to do this.", thus the timeline is vague. Han and friends could've been running for at least a week. The chase/training could've lasted a whole month. We don't know, thats why it can work.

    Are there any more attempts to drag the OT in order to explain away the short comings of this film?
     
    -LordSkywalker- and Glitterstimm like this.
  18. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I just looked at the last month's worth of posts on this thread and didn't see anything. But, point blank, you're wrong about the timeline.

    Finn says the fleet only has 18 hours of fuel left and then we cut to Rey talking to Chewie on the Falcon. This is after her first lesson and just before her second force connection with Kylo. The next time we see Rey is sometime midday when the sun is overhead. After that we see her at sunset for her second lesson. She leaves the island later that night.

    There is nothing in the movie that would indicate an extra day has passed.
     
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  19. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015

    Nah, I'm not. I was trying to prove myself wrong when I looked this up last time. I posted everything and the defense force pulled out a straw man. Its a plot hole.
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  20. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Then list the events and the times (or at the very least tell me what's wrong with what I posted). You won't, because you can't. How do you expect anyone to respect you on here when you won't even come to the table in good faith on something as verifiable as this?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  21. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    As long as someone can provide a reasonable time table for the events, and as long as it can be explained using logic and reason, then as much as some fans may not like how it was depicted, it is ok, but it is not a plot hole.

    It is my understanding that some users have provided reasonable time tables for the events, and this is not even counting the weirdness of the day cycles of a different sized planet, much more one with two suns.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Martoto77 likes this.
  22. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    If it was so easy for DJ to open the cell door, why didn't he escape earlier, before Finn and Rose got there?
     
  23. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    For the last time - no one is "tearing down the OT". What people are doing is suggesting there is a double standard in which people (some, not all) will haul TLJ over the coals for stuff they have happily let slide in the films they've grown up with.
     
  24. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    DJ was there to protect himself from a group of people that was after him. So he got arrested on purpose to use the prison as a safe place to hide until things cool down.

    This info is from the DJ book.

    If we only want to go by what the movie gives us, he was arrested there by probably cheating on the cassino, then as soon as he thought the guards were distracted, he escaped.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  25. Felicia

    Felicia Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2012
    If Lor Sentekka has a map with they system in which Luke Skywalker is in and R2-D2 has the missing piece to the maps buried in his databanks why does Luke tell Rey he came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy to die? He left a map for heavens sake! I still find it hard to believe Disney let this guy make the movie he made. Sooo many plot holes. Killing of the main villain without an explanation of who he is. Before everyone starts saying well no one knew who Palpatine was the back story for him was always there it only made it on screen with the prequel trilogy but it was well thought out. Everyone gives the prequel trilogy a hard time but there was an actual story there and a good one. The mess that is The Last Jedi should be removed from cannon.