ST Poe Dameron & Rey and their dynamic moving forward in IX

Seeing as the Shattered Empire comic showed us Poe's parents and Luke was not one of them, I have a sneaking suspicion that this won't turn out to be the case.

That would be a way to make her a Skywalker (but see previous comment).

I don't remember anything like this in the movie. Where was it?

On the other hand, there are a lot of command ships, if you get my drift.

Or maybe the cigar is just a cigar?

 

The one bad thing about the ESB parentage surprise, is that now every time a Star Wars movie comes out, the masses are convinced TPTB are pulling the wools over our eyes for another shocking family member reveal.

Anyone remember those damn Jyn Erso had a daughter with Luke Skywalker theories?

I'm surprised no one's presented a crappy theory that Qi'ra is Rey's mom.

 

It's not a crappy theory, it is fact!

 

I think Oscar was referring to Rey and Poe's original meeting scene when he said he was playing romance. If they kept the meeting scene in the audience would have definitely left thinking Rey and Poe were going to get together. The whole movie Rey and Poe are paralleling and then they finally meet by hugging each other and saying the iconic "I know" line? The whole movie is a throwback to the original trilogy so it just doesn't make sense that the I know line would be a coincidence. Also "I know" is not a comman phrase used when introducing yourself to someone so they kind of went out of their way to put that in. And throw in the line about Rey liking Poe's face and we have a huge indicator that there's going to be a romantic relationship between the two. But if people thought something was going on by the two second scene we got in TLJ, they definitely would have thought something if Rey and Poe literally hugged and then said "I know". So I think that's was Oscar was referring to, but it ended up getting cut from the movie, so people assumed he was talking about Finn/Poe.

My guess is JJ intended for a romantic dynamic between Rey and Poe (it's a way to not kill him off). I think they were probably supposed to interact more in episode 8 but it's been established Rian decided to do his own thing. I don't know if they're still going to do it now though since they just met and I feel that changes things. It's still possible though and I think that might be the way they're going? I think there's probably going to be a time jump, with John saying he has to grow out his hair and all. I'm guessing Rey/Poe are going to have a flirty relationship. I think it would be cute to have Rey be the one that really goes for it (like Han) while Poe is the one who is more hesitant, like Leia. Unless in the time jump we go right to them being together, but I think I would rather see them get together than just have them already together.

 

And (also) because of that I believe Poe may be Luke's son. True fans who read the comics can be put on the wrong track this way and casual fans won't even know who Poe's parents were supposed to be.

At 1:39:12. It may be a small hint, or just a coincidence.

I believe Poe may be Luke's son because it was stated several times that this is the Skywalker Saga. Now who is this Skywalker in this trilogy? Luke? It's not his story anymore... Kylo Ren? Maybe... Rey? Highly unlikely. I believe the true Skywalker has yet to reveal himself, even though he has been in front of our noses all the time. That is why I consider Poe the best candidate. Also, neither Kylo Ren nor Rey are unable to carry the Skywalker name into episodes 10-12. I don't believe they will let the Skywalker name die with episode 8. The 'brand' is too famous and valuable, and the (casual) fans want Skywalkers.

 

*palm to face*

 

Said this in another thread and I'll say it again.

Poe is in his 30's in TFA/TLJ. Rey is 19. Now I know that's not normally a barrier to a relationship but they come from such different places in life.

From Poe's first appearance in TFA, through what we're shown of his battle experience on Takodana, Crait etc: he's a commander and a military guy. He's a man of experience and maturity. You also get the impression through other canon material and just in general from what you see of him in the films that he's probably had a life outside the Resistance. He's got some life story across the galaxy. Relationships? Family? Maybe.

Rey on the other hand... we know everything about her. She grew up on Jakku, mostly alone, mostly self-sufficient, then she broke away from that. That's when she met Poe.

They're very different people. That's the main thing I get from it is that they are so different - Poe's a man of experience, history, battles, skill, background. Rey is just Rey. A scavenger kid suddenly broken out into the galaxy. And that's why I don't think there could be anything between them. They are so different - she's immature, he's experienced.

I was surprised by the fact that I definitely ship them. I mean yes, I'm so on board with Rey/Poe more than I ever have been with Rey/Finn (because that relationship is so platonic that it hurts), but they are just worlds apart.

I can see Poe becoming a big brother figure to Rey... and also to Finn. If those three are our new Trio? Then I am so on board with that, but Poe is so much older and so much more experienced, he just gives off that mentor vibe more than anything else. He'll be the new Han and the new Leia. The mentor.

So no, as much as I ship it, I don't think they'll get together as a couple. They're so different. Poe will be a mentor, a teacher, a commander and a leader in episode IX... not a romantic interest for any of our main characters.

 

Also, on another train of thought, I love Poe's dynamic with Leia. He lost his mother at a young age and it's natural that he'd become attached to another mentor/mother figure. Overall I just adored Poe in TLJ... it showed us so much more of his character than TFA ever did. In fact, for me, TLJ turned Poe from someone who I was mildly interested in (in a 'yeah he's cute and talented' kind of way) to a character I could actually connect with. The 'magical appearance' in TLJ of the ring around his neck threw me into identifying with the guy and his history. **** yeah to the writing. TLJ turned Poe into a favourite character for me.

As to his parentage, yes, I think what we know about him is true. I think his obvious to closeness to Leia is just that - a replacement for a mother figure he lacked early in life.

I must admit I fantasised for a bit - I thought 'wait, is he actually Leia's kid?', I thought 'ooh, what if he's Ben Solo's brother?!' but no. It's fanfiction material. What we have is a great background for him.

 

Poe has a pretty strong family resemblance to his parents and there is zero evidence that Luke had a family and a lot of evidence that he didn't (much less fathered a son before ROTJ). There's also the problem that Luke never met the Damerons until after Poe was born. There's just not enough evidence (read: any evidence) to overturn what has already been codified into canon at this point.

My memory is failing me. What happened then?

The sequel trilogy is Rey's story (with Finn and Poe acting as the secondary hero lead characters). While the sequel trilogy does deal with the Skywalker legacy (both the good with the Big Three and the bad with Kylo), when push comes to shove, though, this is not a Skywalker-centric story the way the previous trilogies were.

And yet they made a whole frickin' movie that centered on the idea of letting the past go and moving forward. Episode 9 will be the last of the Saga (there are no plans for another sequel trilogy) and the franchise has been in transition for years now. Star Wars is more than just the Skywalker story and that began with TFA when it chose to tell the story of a pair of non-Skywalkers who began a journey to become the heroes of their generation.

 

Poe is 32 years old. He was born in between ANH and ESB. We've seen his parents. And as Oscar Isaac said, saw them post coitus in the comics after conceiving Poe.

Meanwhile Luke was still jonesing for Leia at the time.

Oscar Isaac even gave "approval" for Poe's parents backstory.

We know who Kylo's, Poe's and even Hux's parents were. This is all covered in the new continuity.

 

Rey and Poe supplants Rey and Finn that's been set up since The Force Awakens. It's a disservice to Finn to be butted out for Poe. It would send a bad message too.

 

Were they though? I do think the TFA novelizations suggests that someone thought they were, but in the movies themselves, it really hasn't been confirmed one way or the other. When seeing TFA, I wasn't exactly sure what they had in mind (I mean, there was no specific "I love you in the romantic way" statement or moment like you'd expect in a blockbuster love story). When reading the TFA novelizations, they really sold me on the idea that a love story was the intent (the adult novelization is pretty blatantly written with this idea in mind and the junior one also has some pretty choice creative decisions that suggest it).

However, TLJ didn't really move things forward and none of the novelizations really expanded on the idea any further. The closest we've gotten Rose Tico: Resistance Fighter, were it's plainly stated that Rose believes Finn is in love with Rey (implied in the TLJ novelization, too). However, it's unclear if Rose guessed correctly or not, much less if it's mutual. Neither Finn or Rey are seen thinking about each other in that way, irregardless of the importance they have to each other.

My guess, if Finn and Rey don't end up together in Episode 9 or future storytelling in other movies and tie-ins (either because Rey ends up with Poe and/or Finn falls for Rose), it'll probably be presented as a case where Rey and Finn were never romantically interested in each other in the first place, but were close enough that we were "mistaken" about that. In any event, I think it's been confirmed that Finn and Rey do love each other (romance aside) and are essentially surrogate family, and I don't think whatever other kinds of relationships they form along the way are going to undermine that or make it any less meaningful.

(My personal thinking is that Rey and Finn as an item would be my preferred outcome, but I'm not opposed to the idea of Finn and Rose getting together. Not so hot on the idea of Rey dating Poe for various reasons and I find the idea of Rey and Kylo together sickening. At the end of the day, though, I think we need to hold on to these theories loosely. The Powers That Be are the only ones who know what kind of stories they're going to tell and which, if any, scenario works best with their plans.)

 

Poe was not one of the initial people who joined the resistance (who gathered around Leia at the end of the Bloodline novel), only being recruited by Leia at a later stage. This means he would have been a part of the resistance for less than 5 years before the events of TFA and it is also canon that he received promotions in quick succession within a short period of time to get the rank of Commander. Also, he never had battles, missions etc as part of the New Republic (due to their de-militarisation), only flying patrol duty (Before the Awakening Novel). Poe's few resistance missions to retrieve intel or rescue Ackbar before the events of TFA doesn't make him this mature man of great experience and a mentor figure.

The battle on Takodana, SKB, the evacuation of D'Qar and the brief skimmer flight on Crait would be the sum total of his "battle experience" (events over a span of less than a week), and that too only during and after TFA. And it is nothing compared to the Battle of Yavin, the Battle on Endor, The Clone Wars etc that the OT3 experienced.

Hence, I think Poe's character is also going through it's own development arc just like the characters of Finn and Rey, and he is honestly too young and inexperienced to become their mentor figure, a role that belongs to the likes of Han, Luke, Leia,....and now hopefully some OT character like Lando, Yoda or Wedge (or with some luck Obi-wan or even Ahsoka) who possess actual knowledge, experience and maturity.

As for romance, I'm not averse to Finn and Rey becoming a couple but I don't see it happening as long as Rose is in the story. In the case of Rey and Poe, they have so much in common and so much they can teach one another. Maybe they will just be good friends, but I won't be surprised if they end up a romantic couple as well.

And on this topic, the preview of the upcoming Poe Dameron is out:



Poe took down 9 TIEs in one run and some ground targets as well on Takodana. He did not miss a single shot (a bit akin to Rey shooting down those 3 TIEs on Crait). And further, the comic just confirmed he was "tapping into something" during this time. If Poe is confirmed to be force sensitive in the movies (which I feel is being strongly hinted across other canon materials), then he and Rey have even more in common and Rey has something to teach him since she is more knowledgeable and experienced in this area.

 

Maybe, although such a revelation would be a huge cop out, given that there is zero evidence of Force-sensitivity in the movies and the evidence elsewhere is circumstantial, at best.

 

It would have been a cop out if there was no prior discussion of Poe potentially being force sensitive and this came out of the blue. But there have been forum discussions, articles and youtube videos on this subject since the release of TFA, so this isn't something completely new or unexpected.

Poe potentially being force sensitive has been constantly hinted on many occasions across canon material with even some callbacks to Luke, Ezra and Anakin such as when Luke gave Shara Bey the force tree just after they talked about her son, Poe's podracer adventure as a child, his looking after the force tree and playing on its branches (an object confirmed to have been used in place of a holocron in that story), Leia mentions that he reminds her of Luke (in Before the Awakening), his learning to fly a starship by the age of 6, his never missing shots including blowing up SKB with a near impossible shot, his flying skills, witnessing strange force creatures fighting a light and dark side battle on the planet Ovanis, his sensing people's emotions (The goodness in Finn, Leia's mourning in Before the Awakening and Jessika Pava's anger relating to her childhood in the comics), his withstanding all the torture methods employed by the FO for hours until Kylo had to be brought in, callbacks such as his turning off communication to 'focus' before flying through a cave-in, his needing rest after flying a stormsailer without wings or an engine through dangerous wind currents (showing force exhaustion), and his pursuing the crystal fox with glowing eyes into the tunnels of Crait...just to name some.

Also, I would have agreed if the adventure being depicted was during some mission outside of the movies. But if Poe tapped into the force on Takodana during an event depicted in TFA so it would qualify as evidence of Poe being force sensitive in the movies as well.

 

I'm guessing that the cop out of the Force tree where Poe grew up, will come into it. Unless Rey was somehow unconsciously guiding Poe using the Force..

 

Or maybe Luke recognized that Shara Bey had a force sensitive son and the force tree (not just any old tree but a sapling of one from the jedi temple beside which padawans trained according to canon) would be safe in their care? The force tree on the Dameron ranch was brought into canon back in 2015 so its not a last minute cop out.

Rey could not have guided Poe using the force on Takodana since she herself had no idea of how to use her force powers at the time, and was busy being captured by Kylo Ren. Also, Poe was already sensing people's emotions, and doing all the amazing shooting and flying long before Rey came into the picture.

 

Indeed. Regarding Rey however, my observation has been that with the storytelling, the possibilities are fairly wide, so I do not necessarily see Rey NOT having an influence (subconscious or otherwise) on Poe to be entirely impossible. She did seem to fly the Falcon without effort, much as Anakin podraced without problems.

 

I don't see it happening as Kylo had frozen Rey, rendered her unconscious and carried her off as the resistance arrived. Also, Poe was showing skills in sensing emotions, shooting and flying even when Rey was back on Jakku scavenging before the events of TFA. So Rey could not have been influencing him from there too. And on the topic of podracers, Poe also flew a podracer as a child without any problems, and learned to fly a starship at age 6 so the potential for him being force sensitive was always there.

 

I guess that time (and the comics) will tell.

Personally, I do like the idea of a FS Poe, somewhat like Chirrut.

 

There's nothing in the movies to support this theory, which is the problem; the films need to make sense in a vacuum. Revealing Poe to be Force sensitive in Episode 9 would be a copout since there is zero buildup to it. Tie-ins do expand the stories, but setting up such an important plot twist in media that only a fraction of the film's audience will read is crappy planning. Besides, Poe's story arc isn't about the Force but leadership, so making him a Force user is not only problematic from a writing standpoint, but is of no use to his character.

If they wanted to do this, they're going about it in the worst possible way, assuming that they should in the first place, which, as I noted above, is not a good idea. Mileage may vary, of course, but I hope it makes sense why I find the theory to be a bad idea on all possible levels.

 

It doesn’t help that if Poe and Rey are an intended item, it feels a bit thrown in last minute. If the romance is so unimportant that their “meet-cute” can be delayed until the end of the second movie (with only 1 movie to develop an actual relationship), then why do it at all? If you are going to do something, do it right. Otherwise, any success the romance will have relies entirely on the chemistry between the actors. It can work (I have no doubt on Oscar’s end), but it would still feel like leaving your best friend for the jock to me.
Unless, Rey doesn’t look at Finn in a romantic light (you can’t force attraction IMO). To be honest, it’s hard to tell.

 

I don't see how Poe's leadership arc conflicts with force sensitivity. They are not mutually exclusive. Look at Leia, for instance. She was a leader and force sensitive. I don't see why Poe cannot be the same, considering he is her protege (even in the movies).

Even if one puts aside all the evidence from books, comics etc, there are a whole lot of instances (both major and minor) in episodes 7 and 8 that can be re-visited as hints of Poe's force sensitivity.

1. Poe withstands a lot of torture after being captured on Jakku (he is barely couscious and has a bloodied up face) and only reveals the map location when Kylo uses the force on him (and we have to remember he was injured and weakened by torture unlike Rey's later interrogation). Kylo even mentions in the movie how he is impressed Poe did not reveal the information to anyone.

2. He sees goodness in Finn despite being a stormtrooper. He also guesses Finn is looking for a pilot. (the 'you need a pilot line). he goes on to fly a special forces TIE despite never having flown one before and still being weak from torture.

3. He takes out several TIE fighters and ground forces in one run on Takodana, just like Rey shooting down the TIEs on Crait.

4. He makes the near impossible shot that blows up SKB, amidst a space battle. (Anakin destroyed the droid control ship in TPM and Luke blew up the death star in ANH, both the first movies of each trilogy.)

5. In TLJ, he took out all the canon emplacements of a dreadnought with no backup while being chased by TIE fighter, even flying through a narrow partition on the dreadnought that sliced a TIE into shreds.

6. He sensed Luke was there to save them, and then chased the glowing eyed crystal fox into the tunnels to help the resistance escape. (This is a clear callback to Ezra running behind the loth wolves into their den and leading Sabine and 3 other rebels to safety when pursued by imperials)

So even taking the films in a vacuum, there are enough instances and callbacks to other force sensitive characters that can be considered clues and a build up if Poe is confirmed to be force sensitive. I wouldn't mind seeing Rey teach Poe to meditate and understand the force to make him a better leader.

It doesn't mean he has to become a jedi or that he will become as powerful as Rey and Kylo. Even in the old jedi order, the jedi knights and masters (even in the movies) did not share the same levels of power and all were good at certain abilities (not necessarily mastering them all).

 

Maybe "conflicts" isn't the right word, but series has all the Force-ey stuff covered with Rey and Kylo; I'm just skeptical that making Poe Force-sensitive would have an equitable narrative return for the time they would need to invest in it. It's arguably an unneeded complication that would take away time for wrapping up the already-existing plot threads.

Okay.

Like how Leia did in ANH when she was written as a 100% muggle? Also, remember Poe was never supposed to survive TFA, so it's seems more likely that the Powers That Be wrote him a really tough muggle. For what's it's worth, Leia's resisting interrogation in ANH didn't trip any "Force sensitive?" red flags, suggesting that muggles having similar levels of resistance is not unheard of. We also know that muggles can successfully resist even more powerful interrogations than Poe did:



So, this could be an instance of Poe being Force-sensitive, but it's also something a muggle could do, too.

Maybe, however there is good reason to believe that Finn would've known that Poe was a pilot in the first place. Finn is also not a good liar, hence why Poe would be able to read him like a book. As far as flying the TIE, Poe is an ace and in movie land, that's enough to be able to fly a new ship like a pro.

Maybe, although it feels like it's meant to say "good pilot," not "Force-using pilot).

No sure it was was "impossible"; all he had to do was go through the hole Chewie blew in the facility and just blast everything in sight. A good muggle pilot could do the same.

Han has pulled to pretty crazy piloting trick too, no Force needed. I think this's in the same place as point 3; it could be the Force, but it could also be ace muggle pilot according to the rule of cool that movies usually run on.

His understanding what Luke was doing could be done without the Force. Also, following the foxes was with the powers of observation and good thinking, not the Force.

Maybe, but I honestly feel that we're getting into confirmation bias territory that is such an occupational hazard of fandom (remember when it was popular to believe that Finn was a secret Force user?). A lot of the points could point to the Force, but many of them also may just point to tough, skilled muggle.

(Also, I seriously doubt that Marvel would've been let in on the secret if the plan was to reveal Poe as a surprise Force user.)

 

I don't think it is an unnecessary complication at all.

Even in the OT, Leia was part of the rebel plot while Luke and Vader were part of the force plot. And yet, she turned out to be force sensitive (later decision or not, it is canon). Since Poe's story has several call backs to OT Leia and he is her protege, they could very well be giving him a similar arc as well. Being force sensitive doesn't mean he will pick up a lightsaber and go battle some dark side force user. It could be as simple as being able to sense something, communicating with someone or even some other minor display of force ability.

If they are casting new characters (the two new females), the writers obviously feel they have space to add more plot threads. Poe being force sensitive is a minor thing to add in comparison.

Leia's torture scene in ANH was written at a time when force lore wasn't developed and there is nothing mentioned in ANH about only force sensitives being able to use the force. Further, Vader wasn't even Luke and Leia's father at this time and Luke and Leia had romantic chemistry going by the novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye which would have been the sequel to ANH if the movie had not been a big success. If we apply the logic that Leia has to be judged as a 'muggle' in ANH, then all these other non-canon explanation can be brought in as arguments too, and that makes no sense.

Since Poe's story was written years after Leia was confirmed to be a force sensitive, that would have to be the standard that is used in Poe's case as well.

Cad Bane and some other alien species (like Hutts and Toydarians) are able to withstand certain force powers being used on them. Poe is a human being so he has to be judged in comparison to other human beings, not alien species.

Poe was not "supposed to die" in TFA. That was only one of many story lines for Poe explored as the script was being written, just like Rey was supposed to be living with her grandfather on a swamp planet, and Kylo was a terminator style jedi killer.

The Art of TFA clearly shows early concept art of Poe alive after the crash and on Jakku, and the book even mentions that options for his character included being a jedi padawan survivor from Luke's new order and a bounty hunter. So going by the logic that one arc they considered was his death in TFA, then another arc of him being a force sensitive is also equally valid.

Also Oscar Isaac mentioned in TFA interviews that Poe's arc was not finalised when he first entered discussions for the role. Since Poe did not die in canon, I don't see how this argument is even relevant any more two movies later.

The point of Poe realising Finn needs a pilot could be logic but Poe could have easily been suspicious that this was a trap set by the FO to lead them to the resistance base (something they had been seeking out) since Finn was clearly a stormtrooper and nobody had escaped the FO before. But Poe sensed that Finn was a good person and it can be argued that this sense could be force related, just like Leia used the force to sense individuals she interacted with (the Bloodline novel).

Poe could fly like a pro on normal occasions but this someone who was physically tortured for hours and had his mind brutally invaded only a short while earlier.

I don't think regular good pilots took out that many targets in a single run. It is pointed out in the script of TFA that one x-wing stood out as it took down the x-wings and installations. Poe's flying was something beyond the normal. That is why he is referred to as the "best pilot".

Chewie did not blow a hole in the entire facility leaving a big gap for Poe to shoot down from a great distance. He disabled the shields around the oscillator and Poe had to make the shot in a run somewhat reminiscent of the trench run in ANH. Also, SKB was bigger and much more powerful than DS I so one facility blown up by Chewie wouldn't have made much difference without Poe being a beyond exceptional pilot.



No good 'muggle' pilot has made a shot like this in canon. In ROTJ, it took Wedge Antilles (shooting the power regulator) and Lando with Nien Nunb (shooting the reactor core) to destroy an unfinished mid-construction death star that looked like Swiss cheese anyway.

Han has not performed a similar feat in canon. I brought this point up because it is an instance that could be explained as Poe using the force in earlier movies, if it is confirmed that he is force sensitive,especially since great piloting skills are normally linked to force sensitivity.

SW Rebels showed the episode of Ezra pursuing the loth wolves into the wolf den to lead the rebels to safety around the same time TLJ was released, so it is a definite callback considering the scenes are near identical. SW movies are full of call backs so this cannot be just summarily dismissed as observation and good thinking.

The initial discussion was about Poe being a force user with no build up. I have mentioned many instances that could be interpreted as a build up to his being a force sensitive. Now they may or may not take that route but as of now a preview exists in a canon source where Poe says he "tapped into" something during the battle of Takodana. Normally in SW, people "tap into" the force.

Now about Marvel getting information in advance- canon materials normally seed ideas that are later explored in other canon including movies and TV shows.

Kylo Ren's lightsaber dating back to the battle on Malachor was mentioned in the TFA visual dictionary, but found its way months later into SW Rebels where Ezra finds a similar lightsaber on Malachor.

Jyn Erso's childhood and backstory (including those of her parents) were dealt with in Catalyst and Rebel Rising. Catalyst even gave more context to the kyber crystal Jynn wore that Chirrut could sense on her, and which she held at critical moments of the film.

The Last Shot novel has given more details about Lando and L337's friendship, something that will probably help to understand both their characters in the Solo movie. (there is even more going by the recent leaks but I think its not fair to post it here before the movie release)

In the Han Solo comics, Han is taken through an ancient portal to a place where time and space are irrelevant, and two years later, the world between worlds was revealed in SW Rebels.

The Force Awakens RPG game indicated that the FO had many bases and ship building yards in the Unknown Regions, a fact that explained the gigantic FO fleet and the Supremacy that pursued the resistance in TLJ two years later (though only SKB and the Finalizer were shown in TFA).

The underworld has been extensively dealt with in the main SW comics, the Doctor Aphra comic and the Darth Maul comic (including the propensity for some of their members to collect force related objects), and now two years later, a criminal gang is featured in the Solo movie as is the collecting of rare objects (going by the movie stills). The Last Shot novel also mentions the Crimson Dawn gang, which features in the Solo movie.

A major spoiler in SW would be something related to Rey's lineage or Kylo's fall, or maybe even something in Leia, Luke or Snoke's history. Poe confirmed to be force sensitive and maybe learning to improve his existing skills from Rey would not be a major reveal by comparison. If anything, I think it could help build their friendship and give them something to bond about. So I can see Marvel being asked to seed this idea in the comics, and then it being mentioned and explored in episode 9.