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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Policy against discussing banned users

Discussion in 'Communications' started by solojones, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Can someone help explain the logic of this one to me? I get maybe if someone is temporarily banned that you wouldn't discuss it.

    But if someone is permabanned, they're no longer a part of the community. Why not have a publicly-available list of those people?
     
  2. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    As far as I understand it, the original thinking was that by having a BanList you were basically setting up a ranking system, and that unsavory people could consider an honor to be featured there. So it was thought it was best to avoid hosting our own Banned User Glorification Shrine.

    Now, I don't feel especially strongly about it. I was not a part of the original conversation, but I can understand why it was decided it was the best route. But let me pose you this honest question: why have a publicly-available of indefinitely* banned users?

    *and yes, it's semantics, but "permabans" are indefinite bans, not permanent bans, meaning they can always be revised and reversed and meaning that technically the users are still considered a part of the community
     
  3. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Because if someone has done something bad enough to be indefinitely banned, there are probably interested parties who have been the target of that person who want to rest assured knowing they're gone. Or likewise knowing they're not gone forever and you'll have to find a way to deal.

    To me it just sorta seems like an outdated policy. I don't think trolls are coming here specifically to be banned on purpose.
     
  4. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    If that's the reason, perhaps we could add something to the user profiles that specifies when a user has been indefinitely banned. It would serve the same purpose, yet avoid the Top 10 Non-PC Heroes problem.

    I'll inquire to our tech people.
     
  5. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    That would be a good compromise I think.
     
  6. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    There is something that occurs when a user has been banned. When you try to access their profile, nothing is there. Now that's only for certain people, so I'm honestly not sure.
     
  7. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    There's a difference between banned users. If you are temp banned (meaning you can see the Unban Request forum) the system doesn't see it as a hard or permanent ban. So temp banned user profiles can be seen by regular users. If we do the system ban (as we do for spamvertisers) the profile can't be seen by regular users. Mods can see them though.
    When we were setting up the Xenforo forums the system ban was the only option to do a ban, but users can't submit an Unban Request. So we created a 'temp ban' user group that only has access to the UR forum so these users can discuss their bans with a mod. If you are in that forum you can only see threads you've started and mod replies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  8. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Yeah, my idea would be setting something like the Administrator badges than LAJ and I have, so that it's instantly clear. I've seen it in multiple message boards, so it's not a crazy idea, plus it would probably cut on the gossiping and speculation that tend to surround notorious bans.
     
  9. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Yeah, in real life, when somebody is harassed or assaulted by somebody, the courts notify the 'victim' (hate that word) of all court dates, sentences, and are given a heads up when their assailant is released. Something like that would be helpful, I think.

    lol... I'm thinking back to when the whole mess with Sapient went down, and people were getting warned and banned for mentioning him by name... not helpful at all. I'm not saying anything like that is happening now (it's not). I just don't see the need to "protect" people who are guilty of inappropriate behavior.
     
    KnightWriter and solojones like this.
  10. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    That would probably work for temp-banned users since that is just another user group. I'd suggest some really nasty bilious color with a 'banned' badge of shame. (The forum feud color schemes have some potential there). However it would be harder for users in the system ban group from what I saw on the Xenforo forums on the subject. Maybe we just let the lack of profile information available for regular users take care of that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  11. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I'd also want to see if an account is a sock account.
     
  12. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Why? Let the mods handle that.
     
  13. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Because sometimes I have the feeling that some accounts are simply socks to provoke/troll others anonymously
     
  14. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    That's not your problem, though. That's for the mods to sort out. Don;t use this thread to make unreasonable requests--it'll make the staff take the original request (a reasonable one) less seriously.
     
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  15. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I normally do a 'sock check' via IP addresses as part of the New User Approvals. However if I note the fact that an ID is a sock (or suspected sock) it's in the user notes which aren't visible to regular users - just to mods. If the main user is currently banned I can reject the sock account.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
    Sarge, harpua, solojones and 2 others like this.
  16. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I heard there was a request for history...
    I also believe you are partly correct, in that this was a part of the thinking. And, indulge me here a sec with names, but like the barry and Pizza the Hutt folks of the board-side, less so some of the more recently departed.

    However, the flip side of the coin was also -- these people, whether intentionally or not, are trying really hard to not be a part of the community, so like there's a movement to not name mass shooters to give them notoriety, there was a thought that people should simply disappear from the community and eventually the bumps'll be paved over.
    And this is exactly it -- they're no longer a part of the Community, so therefore... are best forgotten (or, in my case, on my Ignore List to begin with). Now, also as I understood the rule -- since I technically rewrote it I believe -- it was also glorification vs. a mere mention. So, for example, my impression was that a "I miss <banned user>" would be permissible (within context), but, say, starting a thread like "What would <banned user> think of Subject X?" would definitely earn you a warning under the rule.

    Things may have obviously changed since my time (and @JoinTheSchwarz would definitely have better insight here both in general and in specific), but that was my recollection of those discussions.
     
  17. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    The thing is, regular users don't know if they're gone or not. I just want people to know that a bully or harasser is gone indefinitely. It's easy for mods to say they should be forgotten, but regular users may want some peace of mind.
     
  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I'm totally for mass bannings and listing of the banned to be shamed like that nun on game of Thrones. I mean SHE wasn't shamed but led the shame y'know what I mean
     
    Lady Belligerent likes this.
  19. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Go away, Al.
     
    FatBurt likes this.
  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    eh, nobody's banned me, not much point to leaving.