ST Poll: Your thoughts on the KoR taking over the FO & forcing Kylo to become a temp ally?

I think they’re stuck with Kylo as the big bad. Now JJ has the unenviable task of trying to make him scary again.

 

Even Rian Johnson claimed he wrote VIII in the direction of Kylo Ren running the First Order in IX. For better or worse.

Rian Johnson: "If Kylo’s gotta get to a place of actual power the ultimate expression of that would be him ascending beyond his master. And that also then gives the opportunity to have a great, dramatic moment that you don’t expect of getting Snoke kind of out of the way. So that really is where it all stemmed from. It was thinking about Kylo’s path, thinking about where I wanted him to be at the end of the movie to set him up for the next film. And thinking okay, that means we’re gonna clear away this slightly more familiar dynamic of the Emperor and the pupil. Clear the boards from that, and then that’s much more exciting going into [Episode IX], the notion of now we just have Kylo as the one that they have to deal with. You can no longer take a rational guess at how the Snoke-Kylo thing is gonna play out in the next movie." (December 18, 2017)

Rian Johnson: “If I build Kylo up to that point [to be a credible and ascendant villain], the most interesting thing to carry into the next movie is Kylo running things, not any echo of the emperor/pupil relationship. And you realize the dramatic potential of that, and it just makes a lot of sense from the story point of view.” (December 18, 2018)

 

I don't think it likely, but it is possible. It could even be a good and unexpected direction for the movie to go.

As was mentioned a few posts ago they could simply be introduced as being the next trilogy's Big bad, and give Kylo/Ben his own sort of redemption arch. If he is forced into helping Rey and the Resistance, not joining them, as I think that would be too unbelievable as a viable option, but working sort of like a rogue agens alone and stuck in a perpetual state of limbo. He finally sees the evil of the FO and how Snoke manipulated him, but he's done far too much to be accepted by the Resistance.

This could also allow them to give a different perspective for force users, and maybe even have another entirely different group of mercenary sort of group not aligning with the Resistance, but injecting itself randomly throughout the conflict. This could be helpful in making what currently seems to by only a band of 20 Resistance members to be able to actually counter the massive FO forces. More of a tenuous tolerance by the Resistance than an acceptance of more than just a couple.

This could also work if TKOR actually turn out to be all force trained and consider Ben an undeserving leader. They might have been kept at bay by Snoke, and actually had the collective power to wipe Kylo out all along. There could be one who already had shown he was likely more powerful than Ben was but Snoke believed in the Skywalker bloodline's power over a random guy.

TKOR had the potential to be really cool, but the lack of them in TLJ makes this highly unlikely. I like the idea of setting up the next trilogy's bad guys, but that means it probably wont happen.

 

It’s as though you have a dossier of every quote from everyone involved with this series. It’s incredible!

This is the first I’ve heard of this quote from Johnson. Interesting.

EDIT; I just heard that the guy who saw the marketing info said the Knights will be in VIII. If so my Matt Smith second in command Knight dream lives on.

 

This is what I could see as possible maybe with a new villain, but I don't know if a new villain works.

- "Snoke's other apprentice" - this character would appear from the out-of-nowhere UR/whatever place Snoke appeared out of and was either Snoke's back-up in case Kylo experiment failed (unlikely) or narrowly escaped being destroyed by Snoke as "not good enough" and had been in hiding because s/he's on Snoke's kill-list (more likely). Having sensed Snoke is gone, this character comes to take over but has to get through Kylo to be the new dark master.

- A cocky KOR character in position to by Kylo's "apprentice." Now that Snoke is gone this character is contemplating defeating Kylo to take over, but yes can't do it alone and so would need the KOR behind him/her.

Both of these characters would be challenges for Kylo's character in maintaining his power and would be more challenging for him perhaps than Hux (and Hux *might* be in Resistance custody if that one leak is true). They could serve a purpose of confronting Kylo with more of the joys of the dark side--how everyone around you is looking to kill you at every moment. I guess this would be normal for Kylo though so I am not sure if it would enlighten him more about what a pointless path the dark side is. There's no rest for the wicked, after all.

Anyway neither of the above would make Kylo not the main villain--they would simply be challenges that he has to deal with in being main villain. If Kylo were to change sides at the end it wouldn't be any different than if he were to change sides at the end without these challenges from other up-and-comers.

I mean the return of Maul in TCW didn't make him "main villain" over Sidious. He was however someone Sidious had to deal with. Also KOR break the rule of two which was adopted because darksiders all tend to turn on one another and try to kill each other.

 

I agree with @oncafar . I think there is a strong possibility we could get other new villain(s) that may serve as adversaries to the heroes and/or Kylo, but Kylo will continue to be the main villain.

 

That's not saying much. Every head bad guy has henchmen to do his dirty work.

 

I do not mean just henchmen, but other possible side adversaries that challenge one or some of the heroes or Kylo.

 

You would think that would be Hux since he and Kylo already have an established rivalry.

 

I guess I posted this question in the wrong thread.

Are there any spoilers or rumors suggesting that the KOR are indeed in IX??

 

The guy that leaked that Kylo puts his mask back on also said that the KoR are in the movie.

 

My take is not all villains are created equally. A villainous turn by a current character or a new character that is set into a story in which they are vital to that story will work. Think behind the scenes villainy by someone that has a grudge or axe to grind..

 

A possibility is a lesser bad guy thinking Kylo isn't being hard enough on the galaxy to be considered an omnipotent leader.
Or vice versa? Lol

 

I think it's WAY too late for a new villain. Kylo's ascended to a level of power that no Skywalker has ever gotten to before and can now chart his own destiny free of Snoke or his daily influence. He's the best villain of the ST. A new villain that can tie together the Skywalker Saga should've been hinted at in at least TLJ. The Knights of Ren are complete unknowns and we don't even know if they're Force Sensitive or not. I think an early guidebook that mentioned them implied that there not. Hux is an absolute joke and again isn't Force Sensitive so he's not gonna be the final villain.

And even if they were...what connection do they have with Rey, our protagonist? The only person they have a bond with is Kylo and the final villain should impact Rey.

Here's what happens. Kylo's the villain up until the end and a combination of Rey and Leia talking to him will convince him to turn to the Light.

 

Kylo Ren is their master so no. They aren't forcing him to do anything.

 

He was mentioned in STAR WARS 6, however. It wouldn't be difficult. Hell, Snoke showed up in VII and there was not set up for him in the earlier episodes. How did they manage it? It's not that hard.

 

Yes, but Snoke was introduced in the first film in a new trilogy as a big bad. To introduce another big bad in the last film of said trilogy would be...really odd.

 

Not for a SEQUEL Trilogy.


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My feeling is that Ben being deposed, or at the very least strongly opposed, by all or a few of the Knights of Ren is not just possible, but likely. The Rule of Two existed for a very good reason, and so far Ben has just blithely ignored it. One way or another, that should come back and bite him, or it undercuts a crucial bit of the overall saga. If you're going to make him the evil master, then you should confront him with the difficulties of being the evil master ... and that's a big one.

 

He ignored it because he isn't a Sith. He is the master of the Knights of Ren.

 

That ignores human nature and the nature of power. The whole point if the Rule of Two; Sith or not.


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I don't want to see a new villain.
The whole point of Kylo Ren killing Snoke in TLJ was so that he would take over as Supreme Leader.
I want to see what he's able to do with that power...especially with the prospect of Ghost-Luke tormenting him.