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Amph "Ponder the Question" Marvel's 'What If...?' [Disney+]

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ahsoka's Tano, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Panda Hawkeye isn't the worst idea I've heard this week. Maybe not the best either. Still pondering the possibilities ...

     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
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  2. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    So after rewatching the original Captain America movie, I rewatched the full pilot episode today. I enjoyed it as much as the movie. Some great non-stop, Nazi-beating action by a no-nonsense woman; and I was glad that they featured some of the misogyny that was certainly prevalent at the time.

    For those suggesting Carter was OP compared to Rogers, could it possibly have something to do with the fact that she was already a stronger person even before given the serum?

    One thing that I did find questionable; when I watched the original movie, it shows Howard Stark giving Rogers a choice of shields, and it's Rogers who chooses the iconic one. In the alt reality, Stark hands Carter her own version of the same shield. How did he know she'd like it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    They discussed it over fondue.
     
  4. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 19, 2017
    If I had to lay down some greenbacks on what tentacle thing Peggy was fighting there at the end it would be Shuma Gorath.
     
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  5. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    @Bilbo Fett
    makes so much sense she is fighting Shuma Gorath, especially if Shuma is the big bad in MoM.
     
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  6. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Quick question: would there be any reason why the Agent Carter series is no longer canon? I've never watched it before and figured I might at well give it a shot on D+.
     
  7. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Nov 8, 2001
    It's actually a Kevin Feige show, and largely aligns with what we've seen in the movies so it's almost certainly still canon.
     
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  8. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Cool. I like the character so I'll start watching it. Maybe I'll rewatch some other MCU films that she appears in to catch up with her history up to the point where we see Rogers seeing her alive and well in Endgame when he joins Tony to go back to the early 70s to retrieve the Tesseract.

    ----------------------------------------------
    Someone recently shared this in a What if? Facebook group
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  9. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Yes, she was a stronger person before the serum
    which was why her surprise at some changes felt a bit off to me. That just did not feel like her Peggy. I realize they had to do that for several reasons, but for me, that didn’t click.
     
  10. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Like what though?
    She was clearly surprised by the appearance change in The First Avenger...

    [​IMG]

    And no one had any idea what the limits of the serum were on physical strength, etc. because this was a more perfected version of the serum that went wrong with Schmidt. It's one thing to be told "increased strength" and it's another to feel yourself be able to flip a truck or throw a motorcycle...

    Were there other things specifically?
     
  11. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    I mentioned this already, but the gee willikers vibe. It just did not feel like Peggy. I understand it’s a new experience for the character (and a new body/abilities), but I did not like those moments. To be fair, I thought Sebastian Stan’s delivery was surprisingly flat too. Hopefully, he’ll rectify that in the Zombie episode. Other than those moments, Hayley was very good.
     
  12. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Nay-Sayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Wow. You guys have totally different recollections of the fights I watched. By my recollection: Cap sonned Batroc the entire fight. The Leaper was going nowhere with shielded Cap, challenged him to fight without it, and got a dirtnap in (I timed it) about 20 seconds. Shellhead got dominated by Thor during their fight; only getting a momentary reprieve from the power boost of Thor’s lightning. He was getting literally crushed otherwise. And Iron Man beats both Bucky and Steve?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Yes. He ripped Bucky's arm off and had Cap beat and was about to blast him. Only Bucky surprising him let Cap get a hold of him and finish it but he had them defeated despite his damaged armor.
     
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  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    The series is still canon (no MCU show has been rendered non-canon yet; though I doubt we'll ever see the Inhumans series referenced again, so that is the most likely candidate to get overwritten)- it's the One-Shot that is a little iffy. The show basically/kinda replaced and expanded on the One-Shot, but the opening to the series shows footage of her mission from the One-Shot and Flynn now reappears in What If? voiced by the same actor (implying he was present-but-unseen in First Avenger's events).

    So, essentially, to reconcile that, you can watch the One-Shot for the first 7:40 which deals with her main mission, then have to insert a break where Peggy gets transferred from Flynn's office to a different NYC SSR office afterwards for the series, and then assume she ends up back at the original office under Flynn after the series events for the remainder of the One-Shot to play out where she gets promoted to run SHIELD (events which would take place in the later seasons of the series, had it not been cancelled).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  15. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    I wasn't actually planning on going all aboard for every instance the character makes an appearance; I mean I know the Agent Carter series is all about her. Is that One-Shot available on D+? I never watched SHIELD.
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    The One-Shot is under the extras for Iron Man 3 on D+ (as that was the BD release it was included in).

    She only appears in (new) flashbacks in, I think, 2 episodes of SHIELD S2 (and, if we want to get technical, an obituary in S3). Though there’s info on her sprinkled throughout.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  17. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Yeah I've read online how many different appearances she's been in; mostly flashback sequences. I'm really more interested in the media that she's a recurring character. I'll look for the One-Shot special. I think I'll just pass on the SHIELD episodes. If anything I could probably look on YouTube for those specific flashback scenes. Is it safe to say that Hayley Atwell portrays Carter in every single venue (even the brief flashback scenes)?

    ---------------------------------------------------
    Amazon has this interesting Funko of Carter riding on the Hydra Stomper; a little pricey compared to the single Carter Funko pop that's being released in the beginning of September.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Yes, Hayley plays Carter in all appearances.

    And, yeah, you don’t need to watch her SHIELD appearances for her- they’re more connected to the SHIELD S2 plotline. Though the one does get to show her in action with the Howling Commandoes shortly after TFA but before AC. You can just watch that scene online though:



    But, odd prequel/sequel expansion time split not withstanding, the One-Shot is worth watching to set the stage for the AC series (and, retroactively, provide a glimpse into MCU Prime’s Flynn, post-war, now that we’ve seen a version of his past in WI?).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  19. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    I just watched the AC pilot episode as well as the One-Shot special. Pretty cool. I'm definitely going to watch both seasons of the series. Was the show actually canceled or does it actually end with an appropriate finale?
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    It was cancelled. The first season is pretty self contained, the second is mostly contained but has a brief cliffhanger tag that was to set up the third season (though you can kind of stretch things to retcon it as being something else that sorta leaves it with more closure).

    On a sort-of upside (in general, though not in your specific case), a few of the dangling threads were briefly addressed later on in SHIELD Season 7, but mostly with offhand expositionary dialogue.
     
  21. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    It bothers me that a show like that gets cancelled. Why, because the masses just can't appreciate a female lead in an extended Marvel series? From the first episode I take it seems to be a thrilling adventure story that can be as engaging as any Bond movie.

    ---------------------------
    I saw Amazon will be releasing this 6" figure of Captain Carter. It's near the same price as the large Funko with the Hydra Stomper that I posted earlier.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    It had more to do with internal network politics as well as ratings. AC was basically a show to fill the mid-season break for SHIELD to avoid the need for reruns that greatly harmed the first season’s reception/momentum for AOS.

    IIRC, it was around here that the ABC execs that were pro-Marvel were replaced and the new execs cleaned house of their predecessors’ pet projects. And you also had the "Feige seizes control of the MCU" event around here that put more distance between the Marvel TV and film divisions that reduced the level of coordination.

    So, on-the-bubble shows like AC and planned spin-offs that had pilots in development/production (like Most Wanted) got axed, while the flagship show of AOS got booted to a later time slot.

    I believe, though, that AC had renewal hopes extended longer than others due to Feige’s involvement. But once Hayley took on another show that was pretty much it for it at the time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  23. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Yeah. I'm still mad we didn't get a resolution to the cliffhanger they set up. And Hayley's other show as cancelled so quickly you would think they could have still done it. I think Dominic was already doing Preacher when they were in Season 2 so that wouldn't have affected his schedule too much to make a cameo or two in season 3.

    I was glad that Sousa got some resolution in Agents of SHIELD, but considering that it was in another timeline, it's hard to know if that was actually what happened with him or not.

    Speaking of that, I re-watched the Marvel short and there is no way it works with Agent Carter. So, I'm just going to assume both happened in separate timelines. One timeline where Peggy works for Josh Lyman and the other where she works with Sousa and the gang. :p
     
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  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, you can infer some resolution, even if it's not what was intended-
    we know they intended the assassin to be her brother, but without that S3 storyline being made, you could actually kinda assume it might be one of the first hits of the Winter Soldier, since we had the setup of Zola at the end of S1
    .

    What happened with Sousa is likely what happened up to the 50's and not an alternate timeline.
    as they essentially prevented any major changes to the timeline up to that point. Or at least as far as that backstory was involved. They also, more or less, closed the loop on Sousa's fate in a pre-deterministic way so that things ended the way they were known to in the prime MCU timeline, even if things went bonkers from there (and since they were primarily dealing with monolith-based timetravel, things operating in some form of timeloop would track) and started to branch out (though obviously not enough to red-line a TVA flag, or in a manner that "wasn't supposed to happen").

    In the meantime, we can just assume that this is what Season 3 would have officially looked like:




    It works, but not cleanly. As I said- if you watch the first 7:40 of it, it acts as a prelude to the series (which also tracks with the glimpses of the Zodiac Serum mission being included in the first episode of the series). It's just the "tell Peggy she's running SHIELD" stuff with Stark, Flynn and Dum Dum after that that's the problem (especially since the 1946 setting of the One-Shot is a little too early for SHIELD to be officially formed).

    The moment of Peggy and Stark forming SHIELD was supposed to be what the end of the series would be. But I believe the official stance of the showrunners was that the One-Shot happens entirely before the series, but Stark's weapon scandal puts the SHIELD project on hold and Peggy is transferred to a different SSR office without any widespread knowledge of her intended promotion by Stark (and something that would hold no clout given the scandal) and everything continues from there until SHIELD is finally formed in the early 50's.

    That's not entirely clean with the lack of respect Carter gets in the series, but good enough. I'd rather just assume the "7:40 break"/"Peggy gets transferred back to Flynn after a couple years" solution for the SHIELD promotion to happen more or less when it's supposed to, even if it weakens the impact of Flynn's comeuppance/the original intent of the One-Shot's events a little.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  25. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Did anyone else besides me get some of the TCW vibes when Carter successfully interrogated Armin Zola? It just reminded me of the TCW episode "Brain Invaders" when Anakin gets into rage mode after learning Ahsoka is on a ship with clones infected by a parasite from Geonosis. Unlike the TCW episode, we don't actually get to see how Carter got Zola to spill his beans, but they leave it to the imagination.