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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph "Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc" : The West Wing Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by heels1785 , Oct 28, 2014.

  1. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    So does Mandy. But in the grand scheme of things, he's pretty awful after Season 4.
     
  2. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    To be fair, the only character to really benefit post Sorkin is CJ. And even that is debatable- at least she didn't get the same treatment as Toby or Josh.
     
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  3. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    I would say Donna benefited a fair amount as well.
     
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  4. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Yes and no. I am glad that all the characters did get a chance for growth, but I feel like her endgame story was more forced than it should have been after so many seasons of natural progression. Still, we did get this gem:

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  5. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    Really good point.

    While Josh's role did change, next to Toby, the writing for Leo in Season 5 remains the most awkward for me. Goes from the wisest of sages to wrong about literally everything.

    I'll stop there for cubman. Also don't get spooked by the "post-Sorkin" talk. The show is still wonderful.
     
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  6. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Agreed on Leo. Also agree on the show being wonderful. Frankly, I'll watch the worst episode of this show over any episode of reality tv (and most scripted shows) any day of the week.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  7. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 13, 2000
    Really? I don't know what it would take to get me to watch "Access" again.

    Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
     
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  8. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    I can't take seriously anything relating to CJ after Sorkin left, especially as it applies to Season 6 onwards... especially coming from S1 CJ (who had literally no idea anything on any military subject, person, or equipment).
     
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  9. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    She does dress down the outgoing Gen. Barrie in S2 when he's preparing to bash President Bartlet on the way out. One of her better moments, I think.
     
  10. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Stolen valor is a pretty easy concept to digest. Sitting on making decisions and not waking the President on India/Pakistan/Israel and Kazakhstan/China is... less so.

    Also, I give you Sarah Huckabee Sanders. :p Imagine her doing that...
     
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  11. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    She displays an understanding of more than just that, iirc. Disputes his claims about the shrinking military, etc.

    I don't disagree with your larger point, though. Leo's service and leadership experience in government was at the core of his character, and how he could justify making some of those calls as "the virtual co-President." CJ just kind of does it. :p
     
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  12. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    To be fair, when your mentors are Leo and Bartlet, and you work with Toby and Josh, you probably get a lot from osmosis. Also, the fact this happened well into his second term makes it more plausible that she has grown and learned a heck of a lot compared to where she was in Season 1. Still a massive leap, but a bit more acceptable than if it had happened in season 3 or 4

    Also, in the Trump administration, I could 100% see a scenario where Sanders took the job because Trump liked her- so maybe not the best example. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  13. mavjade

    mavjade Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 10, 2005
    While there were a few times that I though Josh wasn't Josh post Sorkin (I'm looking at you Drought Conditions!), I generally really liked where he went and felt he stayed pretty true to Josh. I really liked that...
    while they didn't explicitly bring back up the PTSD, it still was present in at the very least his huge blow up at Otto when Sam gives him the ultimatum to take a vacation. Being campaign manager is high pressure and someone stress disorder is probably going to have some issues unless they take steps to mitigate it, and we all know Josh isn't that guy. They kinda showed it a few times. I wish they'd have said something more explicitly, but I'll take it.

    It may come as no surprise, but I agree with dp about CJ. It just felt like a plot device to me and not anything based in what would really happen. (Yes, Sorkin took some liberties with reality, but for big things he usually didn't.)

    Bahahahhahaha......

    I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at Mandy.

    When we finished Season 1, dp asked me if there was anyone I didn't like, I said, "No, I love everyone." Then I went to the bathroom and as soon as I came out I yelled, "Mandy!"

    Poor Moira Kelly, she's a good actress she just can't pull off Sorkin. That and she just really didn't have any chemistry with Brad Whitford, and he has chemistry with everyone.
     
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  14. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    @mavjade -- Josh and His Backpack: A Love Story
     
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  15. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    Was it Moira Kelly or was it the way the character was written? Or a bit of both? I don't think I ever liked her, but I'm not sure if it was Kelly's fault at all. I think the problem with Mandy was more that Sorkin didn't give her a likable personality compared to everyone else.
     
  16. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 6, 2002
    I would agree with that. Look at how we meet her- she's driving on her phone, not paying attention to what's going on, totally focused on browbeating Bruce into submission until she is forced to hang up by an exasperated officer. I mean really does not endear you to her character at all. Imagine if that had been how her entire storyline ended- arrested and never heard from again.
     
  17. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000
    Mandy got put on a bus. Good riddance I say.
     
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  18. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    jed bartlet gave a speech yesterday. hair a bit whiter, yet vigorous and defiant as ever.



    it's not easy being sheen.
     
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  19. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    I'm going to do a rewatch soon. I started one a few months ago but got distracted by other things so it'll still only be my second viewing of the full series.
     
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  20. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    awesome! welcome to our wonderful cult, chiznuk. before you know it, you'll be on series viewing #31

    [​IMG]

    anyway, when i get to this scene (i'm there now), i always rewatch it a few times. one of the best of many between jed/leo:



    the next episode (shadow of two gunmen II) ends with jed "lifting houses off the ground," giving his acceptance speech at the democratic convention in the background after he tells leo "i'm ready." symmetry.
     
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  21. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 28, 2004
    Oooh a thread about one of my favourite shows! I recently rewatched it all and still had so much fun. Back when I started it at first I convinced a friend to check it and he got instantly hooked and he rewatched it several times now.
     
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  22. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000
    I am still trying to convince my parents to watch it. I think they're worried it'll be too liberal, but I definitely don't think it is. Yes the characters are Democrats, but we're also talking 90s Democrats. And I don't think it's about the policies so much as the characters and the intention.

    However, they're currently rewatching Game of Thrones, so I'll probably have to wait for them to finish that before broaching the subject of watching West Wing.
     
  23. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    @cubman987 need to know if you cried (welled up works) when jed gives charlie the paul revere knife

    if you didn't, you will next time

    i just did, and i've basically been hooked up to an iv of this show since 2009
     
  24. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 7, 2014
    Not quite but it got a big "awww" out of me. Two Cathedrals, however, got me a few times....
     
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  25. mavjade

    mavjade Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 10, 2005
    I've been trying to convince my parents to watch it for at least two years. I know they'd love it, and my mom wants to watch it, but my dad is the hold out. I have no idea why other than my dad is just weird about things.

    But.... HE GAVE HIM THE KNIFE!!!! !! !

    But yeah, Two Cathedrals is intense. One of the best episodes of TV ever, in my opinion (though Noel is still my favorite episode).