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Lit Potential Past EU Reboots (TFA spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Dr. Steve Brule, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    One thing that always interests me is “what ifs” and discarded story ideas, or things that changed in the development of a story. The Secret History of Star Wars and How Star Wars Conquered the Universe really drew me in when they talked about these sorts of things. So after seeing TFA, I was browsing some of my old Star Wars related notes, and I came across Abel Peña’s 2005 blog post listing ten things he thought would have been different in the Expanded Universe if the EU had somehow only started after all six movies had come out. Looking it over, it’s interesting to see just what he got right:

    We still have the end-of-ROTJ uprising on Coruscant being defeated, but everything else here is pretty spot on. NEU has the Empire basically being defeated a year after Endor, Aftermath seems to have Coruscant being liberated a few months after Endor, and the First Order is pretty much a Second Imperium type group, complete with darksided Solo kid and holographic Dear Leader.

    The First Order is kind of like this, inasmuch as they secretly build some of their stuff in the Unknown Regions. Though their whole backstory of when they get established and their relation to whatever formally remains of the Empire is still pretty muddied.

    No sense of exactly when Han and Leia get married, though presumably it’s prior to whenever Ben was born, which seems to be within a year of Endor, so again this seems to be where GODV got it right… Though I still am suspicious of whether the marriage reference from the novel will be followed up on.

    Pretty much spot on, at least from what we know, especially if the Rey theory is correct.

    This seems to be the case still, though at the same time it’s essentially no different than what the EU established since 2002. I still think this was such a dumb misstatement.

    Both of these seem to still be the case. Though funnily enough, the idea that Fett still survived the sarlacc seems to be completely overshadowed by the idea that Snoke is Plagueis.

    The only one that seems to be completely wrong, as of now. Though the rumors that Luke was Kylo, or that Leia was going to turn dark in TFA, showed the notion at least was still in the fan zeitgeist leading up to TFA.

    Again, not exactly, but Kylo definitely embodies some of this point.

    Yup.

    Chewie did not die, and neither did Lando, though at least in terms of what’s seen on screen, Lando could well have died given he’s not even mentioned, while Chewie is prominently featured. Funnily enough, back in October there was an interview with R.A. Salvatore where he learned that he could have killed anyone he wanted in Vector Prime (he was under the assumption he was required to kill Chewie), and he says that if he had known that, he would have killed Lando instead.

    And that brings me to the other potential EU reboot…

    Back in November, I heard Ryder Windham talk about how, when he was first given the TPM script to read in 1999, he saw so many contradictions with the established EU, he suggested that the EU continuity be rebooted then and there. And of course at the same time there was the early attempt to make the NJO a soft reboot of the post-ROTJ EU, though again that basically got dropped after Vector Prime.

    There’s obviously not a lot to directly analyze from that small statement, but it’s interesting to think about if the EU had been rebooted in 1999, and the NJO was the first new entry. I feel like, given Lucas’s writing schedule for the prequels, we probably would not have gotten prequel-era content that was much different, and probably would have still had the issues that developed (Jedi celibacy, age of the Republic, etc.). I also don’t think we would have gotten an NJO that was too different, and probably would have backdoor-recanonized a lot of Bantam stuff anyway (though probably not the Yavin Academy, and we would have had Coruscant retaken and the Jedi Temple as Jedi HQ much sooner).

    I also don’t think we would have gotten the sort of supposed EU-movie parity we have now, given Lucas was still in charge. One other thing I think would have been different – no KOTOR, both because TOTJ would be gone, but also I don’t think anyone would think the Sith would have existed that far back. And probably no post-ROTJ Sith, either – though that might have meant no dark Jacen, which would actually have differentiated it more from TFA than what we got. And of course, the irony is, even rebooting the EU in 1999 wouldn’t save it from being rebooted again after the Disney buyout.

    Anyway, not much else to say, or even know if there’s a whole lot of things to talk about based on this, but since I was in the mood to go on about Star Wars stuff, I figured I might as well post it here.
     
  2. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    If the Rey theory is spot on, then you can bet Luke was married.
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Marriage doesn't really seem like a big deal in Star Wars. Sometimes couples stay together, sometimes they don't. Whether they were married is irrelevant.
     
  4. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Great idea for a thread.

    I'm more inclined to think they'd have just tied KOTOR in with the Sith history revealed in the TPM novel, casting Revan in the "Sith founder" role that eventually went to Ruin.

    Which is probably what they should have done, anyway, given how little KotOR reflected the TotJ aesthetic.
     
  5. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    One thing that strikes me as interesting about point six is the way how Aftermath seems to have done a "soft resurrection" for Boba Fett, featuring a new character taking up what appears to be his armor and basically declaring himself the Sheriff of Tatooine. It strikes me as a clever way of continuing the thing that originally made the character super-popular (cool-looking armor) and possibly reintroducing some of his Legends Old West lawman characterization, while at the same time keeping the death of Boba himself, with its links to his father's, intact.

    (It's also possible that guy is Fett, but I'm inclined to think the above reasoning argues against it).
     
  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm still expecting 1000-year-old Republic to show up any minute now.
     
  7. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Though some Jedi in TCW does mention "the Old Republic".
     
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  8. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I like the notion of Boba Fett's armor becoming a Dread Pirate Roberts thing.
     
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  9. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I am VERY interested in what the chronology of the new universe will look like.

    We know the Sith ruled at some point after all.
     
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  10. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    And we know the Sith shrine under the Jedi Temple is 5000 years old.
     
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  11. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Which would oddly date the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to be a relatively recent construction.

    Perhaps manipulated by Sith infiltrators of Darth Viviate's organization if they ever canonize the Old Republic.
     
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  12. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Luceno revealed in a podcast interview, I think when Plagueis came out, that he got to hang out on the set of Crystal Skull after getting hired to write the film's junior novelization. He said that Lucas and Harrison Ford had discussed the idea of doing an older Han Solo movie, but they had both agreed that Indy had more of a story left to tell. So we could have gotten an Episode VII (although it probably would have been more like a Rogue Oneesque Anthology film) in 2008.

    What would an EU reboot have been like then? The post‐ROTJ era would be toast, so they might have just pulled the plug on everything. It would have been just in time for the launch of The Clone Wars, which would have allowed the original CW timeline from the multimedia project to remain intact without bending itself backwards via retcons in order to accumulate all of the new stuff. Sure, it would have ended up as non‐canon, but the 3D The Clone Wars wouldn't have mangled it the way that it did. In reality, it was mangled to the point of losing a lot of its integrity, and then it ended up non‐canon anyway in its weird mangled state. A 2008 reboot would have preserved the original, sensical timeline.

    Invincible would have been the last word on Del Rey's post‐ROTJ era. The Legacy comics would probably have had to wrap up with the conclusion of Vector, and the KOTOR comics likely would have ended with the conclusion of the Jedi Covenant arc at Issue #35. Ya know, considering how great the original Clone Wars stuff was, how bad Fate of the Jedi stunk, and how downhill Dark Horse went after canceling Legacy, I actually kind of wish that a 2008 reboot had happened.
     
  13. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    On the other hand, it's a pretty fine distinction whether Invincible or Crucible is a lousier ending for the post-ROTJ Big 3 era. At least Daala's not ruling the galaxy anymore by the end of FOTJ.
     
  14. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I know Indy 4 had been in some kind of slow development since the 1990s, but looking it up now briefly, it seems like serious work began on it in late 2004 and went into high gear in late 2005. So if a Han Solo movie had been made instead, I kind of wonder if TCW would have been made at all, or at least serious work wouldn't have begun on it until after 2008, since it seems like with TCW as it actually happened (plus Underworld) Lucas didn't want serious effort to go into it until after the live action movie work was done. And as we saw with Detours, live action movie development could completely sideline already-in-development animated shows.

    I also wonder if a 2008 reboot means that we would have still gotten The Old Republic, since I'm not sure how much money had been thrown at it by that point, and if it would have been enough to justify keep going forward or not.
     
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  15. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    Yeah, that's a good point about TCW probably getting delayed. It wouldn't have made much sense to have a new TV show that didn't tie in at all with the new movie. Sure, that's the relationship that Rebels has with The Force Awakens, but I feel like that's apples and oranges. Rebels started a year earlier than TFA, and it debuted with a lot less fanfare than did TCW, which was a huge deal and was breaking new ground in Lucasfilm media in a way that Rebels doesn't.

    Although, if we had had a 2008 solo Solo movie, then The Clone Wars Season 1 could have been about a young Han Solo fighting alongside the Wookiees who raised him on Kashyyyk. Like that scene he was supposed to be in in Revenge of the Sith. That backstory that will no doubt end up seeing the light of day in the new canon.

    Or maybe a 2008 Han Solo movie would have been paired with a 3D Indiana Jones cartoon series. ... Whoa.

    We can only hope that a 2008 reboot would have forced the FOTJ team to give a happier ending to Invincible. Daala's head on a stake, Jacen being redeemed, Luke stopping off at Tosche Station to finally get those power converters... the whole nine.
     
  16. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    [quote="Jeff_Ferguson, post: 53070272, member: 1250176"Although, if we had had a 2008 solo Solo movie, then The Clone Wars Season 1 could have been about a young Han Solo fighting alongside the Wookiees who raised him on Kashyyyk. Like that scene he was supposed to be in in Revenge of the Sith. That backstory that will no doubt end up seeing the light of day in the new canon.[/quote]

    I was genuinely surprised not only that TCW ended without using this idea, but that from everything we know, they apparently didn't even consider it.
     
  17. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    You know what's weird? It's been so long that we've been with the PT EU and the Del Rey EU that I had to think back to my Bantam/WEG days to remember all the contradictions, but yeah -- there were quite a few things to paper over! I guess it's a testament to how comfortable we got with the retcon mechanism that it's almost a forgotten time period. But we had to drastically overhaul our sense of how the Republic worked, when the Clone Wars was, how old everything was, and basically everything about the Jedi.
     
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  18. Delta-7

    Delta-7 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002

    Same here. Especially when it comes to the history of the Sith. I thought the Legends Canon Sith stuff was hit and miss (Sorry was never a big fan of the Sith Race) but their was some great points (KOTOR and SWTOR) so I am very excited to see what changes and what sticks. Also I remember being disappointed post RoTS when Palpatine declares "Once more the Sith will rule" (I think I even have that in my sig) and I later found out they never really ruled the Galaxy.
     
  19. DurararaFTW

    DurararaFTW Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2014
    They've been more then sufficiently vague in Aftermath that we can be sure that sooner or later some author will bring Boba Fett back. Unless the Anthology film just continues down the Sarlacc pit and shows him die.
     
  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    <Voiceover guy on>

    In 2017...

    The impossible will happen....

    Star Wars: The Death of Fett

    <off>

    Cue 90 minutes of Fett being digested by Sarlacc.
     
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  21. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    It's Vizsla who brings it up, I believe.

    "This weapon was used to kill hundreds of Jedi during the fall of the Old Republic, blah blah"

    Though maybe there are more examples.
     
  22. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    And Saesee Tinn mentions in Citadel Rescue that there hasn't been battles like in the CW since the Old Republic, the emblem in the Crucible is called an "Old Republic emblem" in the concept art for A Test of Strength and Aftermath has some millennia-old vases dating back to the Old Republic.

    The Galactic Republic is 1000 years old, the Old Republic is many millennia older.

    There's a nice preface to TFA:ICS where they explain basic technologies that have been around for many millennia, some dating back to the "earliest days of the Republic".

    After the Empire takes over, both the Old and Galactic Republics get conflated into the "Old Republic".
     
  23. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2001
    I can't see a reboot happening in 2008, even for a Han Solo solo movie. Crystal Skull contradicted a lot of what had happened in what passes for the Indy EU, but rather than discounting anything they hand-waved away the contradictions while embracing everything that was still consistent. Same thing happened throughout the Clone Wars era. I think the advent of the Story Group and the desire to create a planned cinematic universe in the same vein as the Marvel stuff (in which smaller stuff like young Solo and the Death Star plans were movie fodder) was what drove the current "reboot".

    TC
     
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  24. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I think there are a lot of differences between Star Wars EU and Indy EU in 2008, though. A lot of the Indy EU either ignored or outright contradicted each other to begin with, and no one really cared about it either - Indiana Jones in 2008 was pretty much a dead franchise (and I'd argue went right back there once the movie came out).* Star Wars on the other hand was going stronger than ever, and had a large EU which had a lot of people invested in keeping it cohesive.

    Though I do think overall it would have depended on just what the Han Solo movie would have been. Some movie where an unstated older Han & Chewie had some smuggling adventure? They could make it work. A movie where Han & Chewie were together explicitly 25 years after ROTJ where he and Leia never got married because she became one of Luke's fellow Jedi Masters and the Empire explicitly was destroyed immediately after the Battle of Endor but the Hutts took over the galaxy?

    *I actually do think it's interesting that it's the 1990s where the Star Wars EU and the Indy EU are much more comparable, and with stuff like the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, you could even say that the Indy EU had the upper hand. Though I think even by the time Shadows of the Empire came out, Indy's superiority was fading.
     
  25. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2001
    This is nice, Dr. Steve Brule. I'd almost forgotten about it.

    Of course, you left out the most dire (and plausible) prediction. [face_whistling]

    Thanks for the trip down memory lane, pals. [:D]

    Abel