Discussions Preferring the EU without absolutely loathing new canon

Back in 2015, I wrote a post in one of the lit threads that showed that I was willing to accept the new canon as long as it was deemed to be a separate universe from the one we see in the old Expanded Universe.

While I still retain that opinion, I obviously came to favor the EU far more strongly as I once did. I even began to accept more flawed stories in the EU as better than I once did. That's mainly because the two sequel films, TLJ and TROS, were beyond horrible. I felt bad for the character of Rey being this victim of abuse, and I felt that they were painting her as stupid and taking Kylo Ren's position. Obviously, one should never victim-blame anyone, nor should they imply that a survivor deserves it. Say what one will about the prequel films. At least Lucas is absolutely stating that how Anakin mistreated Padme, Obi-Wan, and others was wrong. He's not taking Anakin's side. He's showing why he was problematic and why he needed Luke to redeem himself.

The only things I can stand in the new canon are the Darth Vader comics. They don't really apologize for Vader's misdeeds and crimes. Rather, they show him as being a tad more like Anakin than the EU Vader, but the EU Vader still had many issues with narcissism and immaturity. He just wasn't quite as overtly greedy and socially awkward as his former Anakin self. Anyhow, those comics basically show that Vader was a villain and they clearly illustrate that he needed Luke's help to get out of this funk, and that's why I can accept them. I do like many things from the new stories. Ahsoka Tano in particular is one of my favorite characters due to her growth and self-protective skills. I also like how she imparts wisdom to Ezra and other characters. However, the new canon is largely too messy. I have no problem with how it depicts women as being leaders and being empowered. I wish we could have seen a bit more of that in the old EU. However, the old EU is far more consistent. I can see why fans of Tolkien's legendarium would be fans of the EU. It's basically a legendarium of many stories. It imparts important life lessons. For example, the Sith are self-destructive, but the Jedi have their flaws. You only get bits and pieces of that in the films. I'm glad Lucas allowed the EU to flourish when he was in charge. So, anyhow, that's my take on the situation. I prefer the EU, prequel films, and classic films overwhelmingly. I consider the sequel films and the new canon to be an alternative universe.

How do you reconcile it? I know some people try to merge it. It is possible in many respects for the pre-Phantom Menace EU to be accepted into the new canon in some ways. Like, you could say that Revan, Satele, and Nomi existed back in the day and just use your imagination. However, much of the new canon seems to be not well thought out and rushed. That's the quandary we face. Say what you will about the old EU. At least it took between the early 1990s and 2012 to develop.

Also, let's try not to bash either side in this discussion. I may prefer the old EU and I think the new stuff is annoying. But the only thing I bash outright about it is the depiction of nasty Kylo Ren. I actually don't dislike Adam Driver as a performer, and I understand the intent was to show Rey helping him get to redemption. However, it's messy, and it's sad to show an abuse victim helping her abuser find the light. In the case of Luke, the relationship was platonic between him and Vader. Well, obviously. And it was more about people who did not know each other finding out that they were related and discovering how love was powerful and hatred was a weakness. You dig what I mean?

 

Now that the Kenobi mini-series is coming out, who else wishes that they had made a story in which Asajj Ventress and Obi-Wan wound up together and protected Luke from afar?

 

I tend to prefer the Expanded Universe, just like you. However, there are some EU stories I don’t like, so I created my own personal Canon, in which only the EU stories that I like are included, and inside which the EU stories I don’t like (such as the Dark Empire comics) don’t have any place. I like some things from the New Canon, such as TCW, The Mandalorian (the first season only), Rebels, etc. However, I conceive these products as stories that exist in a bubble and are disconnected from my personal continuity, I see them as products that are only there to be enjoyed, but that I don’t take seriously in the context of a serious and organized personal continuity.

 

I'm of the mind that both continuities have good qualities and bad qualities.
New is relatively better at telling a more consistent story, but old seems better at maintaining the fantasy element by catching the feel of the films.
(Though it can be hit or miss at times).

 

Honestly, I haven't really had a problem "reconciling" anything. I did like Legends an awful lot back in the day, but I've found that I generally prefer the new canon better. Older stories still work on their own terms and that's kinda the only thing that really matters in the end.

 

One underrated character of the Disney Canon that I see as the absolute best of what I tend to refer as the New EU is the Crimson Corsair, Sidon Ithano. He's awesome and his story could easily fit into the EU if one wanted to.

 

Personally I've come to like both canons for what they are and for their own strengths/weaknesses (While I am a Legends fan, there are some things from the new canon that I enjoy; particularly the new alien species and planets that get introduced from time to time.)

 

Same. I like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Andor the best in terms of the new Disney stuff. Darth Vader comics come in second. The Mandalorian is best for Season 1. I feel like I cannot evaluate it until I've seen the whole story, but I do enjoy it. I'm just more into pre-ROTJ stuff as far as Disney is concerned. I liked the old EU mainly for the ancient stuff and the post-ROTJ stories. If I had to rate things, I'd say Ahsoka is my favorite character in the Disney canon..well...obviously. Ha ha. And my favorite villain in the old canon would either be Lumiya, Zannah, Traya, or Sidious. My favorite character in the old canon would be either Nomi, Satele, or the Dark Woman. Favorite villain in the new canon? Darth Vader. I actually do very much enjoy the Darth Vader comics in the old canon, and I think the way he's portrayed in Kenobi and the new comics is very consistent with the old EU. His Anakin-ness is a bit more obvious, but he's still drawn from the same cloth.

The only things I don't really like about the new canon outside of Kylo Ren and the Sequel Trilogy (nothing against Rey or Finn) is just how Thrawn is portrayed in Rebels, plus the notion that Vader could actually overthrow Sidious as a Sith. He overthrows him as a Jedi in the original trilogy, and that's the point. You could argue that he's a Dark Jedi or a Grey Jedi the moment he does that, however. But still, the new canon's implication that Vader could have remained a Sith and overthrown him is just not correct.

 

Thrawns portrayal in Rebels (Outside of my general dislike for how they used the Imperials) was one of the reasons I stayed off the Rebels series, I tended to lean more to Andor or Rogue One in terms of how I like the Empire being portrayed as villains. Although even with being a Legends fan through and through, I still enjoy some of the Disney canon as its own thing without getting in arms about it and starting flame wars.

 

Okay. I meant to say I'm not into the "post-ROTJ" stuff Disney has created. But people can make a joke out of that. Happy to provide giggles. Lol.

 

Same. I can see why Timothy Zahn says that Thrawn is consistent with his former EU self. But Thrawn, to me, was more of an amoral pragmatist in the original canon. In the new canon, he's more of a sociopath. People have a tendency to think that amoral pragmatists are sociopaths, and that's just not always the case in real life. Sure. An amoral pragmatist can be a terrible person, true. But they're not always a sociopath. Lol.

 

New Thrawn is in my opinion just the logical conclusion of the development Zahn had gone through during Legends. When Thrawn first appeared he was a villian, doing things like terror bombing civilians and planning to hand over two kids and their mother to a madman. Then over time Zahn kinda made Thrawn more and more positive, he showed the Empire of the Hand as a good place to be, had characters remark that with Thrawn the Vong would have been easy to defeat, later actually even made the knowledge of the Vong Thrawn motivation. In a sense he was whitewashing the character, and I feel in the new canon the same happens, like he even goes out of his way to show that a massacre Thrawn was accused of in Rebels wasn`t actually him but Pryce.

What I really don`t like with the new one is that he has PoV now, denying that with the old one was always part of the characters mystery, that you never got to look into his mind.

 

Yes the EU is my Main Canon mostly because the KOTOR Games, Jedi Knight Games, Novels like Jedi Apprentice takes place in the same Universe and i love the Post ROTJ EU with Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order that was what i expected to happen after the Movies and i like that Luke had a lot of apprentices i enjoy the New Canon too i read the New Novels and Comics and Watch the New Shows but i wish the ST Era was better

 

I'm a big fan of the New Canon stuff that's pre-ANH. I have a mixed opinion of New Canon stuff that takes place during the CT. But I love, and I mean adore, the Dark Times New Canon stuff. Huge fan of The Bad Batch, and especially Andor and TCW. I actually like Rebels a bit more than Bad Batch, but I do like Bad Batch more than the Mandalorain...strangely enough. I mean, I mainly like the first season of Mando, but seasons 2 and 3 are mixed so far for me. I may change my mind later, tho. To me, Mando is great in terms of Mando himself, but mainly for the acting. I consider it historical fiction, as I prefer the original post-ROTJ EU.

For me, the EU is mainly great for the ancient stuff and the post-ROTJ stuff. My opinion of between the movies EU stuff has been going down a bit, but I still love it.

 

Generally speaking, I hold the "original" six movies (original trilogy + sequel trilogy) as the only things that are common to both canons.

The messiest part is probably from the post-TCW, pre-Disney-reset era. I generally consider TCW and assorted materials to be part of new canon and not part of old one - the three year era of the Clone Wars just gets too messy and jam-packed otherwise.

 

I have that too.

Broadly speaking, my canon = original EU through the end of the Yuuzhan Vong War. The Unifying Force is the cutoff. I also have a few things from before that that I exclude (including, as noted above, TCW and assorted materials that I consider NuCanon and not original EU), and one thing from after it that I save (some version of Mercy Kill still happens, because I can't leave out an X-wing novel).

 

Rebels-Thrawn actually felt like a breath of fresh air to me, because it had been years since I saw Thrawn portrayed as an actual villain. He felt like a Thrawn I hadn't seen almost since the original Thrawn trilogy.

 

Personally, I believe TCW can fit into both canons. I'm not sure if that's just me, but a few years ago, I heard a couple of people on YouTube say likewise.

Having said that, things like Rebels, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Andor definitely belong in the new canon. This primarily is due to the Inquisitors. Otherwise, we would've seen Jerec and other EU characters in at least one of these.

 

If you take the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and completely ignore TCW, then you don't have to worry about having an end to Ahsoka's story, because Ahsoka doesn't exist at all in the Multimedia Project, and the character of Ventress already has an ending.

Except they don't, because they contradict everything that's established in Legends about the Mandalorians, the Clone Wars, the Clone Army, the birth of the Rebellion, and the theft of the Death Star plans. Sure, you can come up with a billion explanations to make everything fit, it's in your right to do so, and I'm surely not the one who wants to prevent you from doing so. But the retcons you need to make those things fit within Legends are the most convoluted bul**** ever, and I don't like retcons when they're extremely convoluted. I don't even hate retcons per se, but when they're too convoluted, then they lost credibility in my opinion. Personally I prefer simple solutions, and in this case, the simplest solution is to ignore TCW and related material in the context of Legends. Again, you can do whatever you want. If you want to fit TCW within Legends, then do it. That's just how I see it.

 

I mean that´s what fanfiction is for... I gave both of them an ending in my stories. Well Ahsoka as Ventress is still around.

 

There's also the fact that the Clone Wars only lasts four years, there are only so many stories you can fit into that era (at least stories involving the same set of characters), and between the original TV show, the Dark Horse comics, and the various novels, it was already very well populated at the time the Clone Wars movie came out and kicked off that whole project. That, plus the fact that you now have at least one main character, Ahsoka, who had never previously appeared or even been alluded to in any of these previous stories despite being central to the main characters' lives. Toss in the sheer number of contradictions you mention, and... yeah. People are welcome to retcon it however they want, that's always part of the fun of fandom, but I definitely find it simpler to just toss them into two different continuities.

 

I know you’re referring to the young Boba Fett novels. Well, I’ve always seen it as a continuity error. In fact, you can very easily retcon the novel in question to make it happen a month before Obsession, and that’s it. Definitely much simpler than retconning half of the Multimedia Project, to make ALL the stories that depict Anakin as a Padawan happen in only one or two months, all just because of TCW.