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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Prepping for US Autocracy

Discussion in 'Community' started by Bacon164, Jan 17, 2022.

  1. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    the examples being given are all about self defense though, certainly the example I gave of BLM is

    they are defending themselves from being killed for no reason by police officers, that’s what the protests are all about, even the violent aspects of the protests are still about self defense
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  2. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Anakinsfan mentioned a single time that in the worst case scenario, she would probably die. Which is probably also true of people who choose violence, by the way. But regardless, compare that single mention to the pages of writing we now have in ongoing to defense of violence. For instance, see below.

    Do you have any idea how broad that definition is. It's "self-defense" even though it's directed against people/things with no formal connection to the formal source of the the threat, which itself is only occasional anyway? Is there any action on Earth that wouldn't classify as self-defense once we say that it includes unprovoked action against unaffiliated entities? The Bush doctrine is pacifist by comparison.

    Please climb down from the rhetorical extremism. Stuff is destroyed in BLM protests because people are angry. As they have every right to be. That's not a ding against the movement. But also certainly is not "self-defense" by any meaningful definition of that word.
     
  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    We have "pages of writing" be I (and others) want her to explain herself thoroughly. You have no case her at all Wocky. She made things dramatic to begin win, she was interrogated when her line of reasoning made no sense, and now you've come on pretending that I've made things dramatic. You always lie about these situations.
     
  4. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    The next most recent post after yours and mine is someone trying to explain the destroying a cell phone store is justified violence against police. Even if anakinsfan had never posted at all, there would still be pages of weird justification for violence in this thread. That's the problematic part. That's what's objectionable about this thread.
     
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  5. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I stopped following the thread at some point largely because of that. I think other than real and unquestionable cases of self-defense, violence is always wrong, period.
     
  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    1) You spent pages acting as if I was, out of nowhere, making things dramatic by bringing up violence. You completely ignored that I was responding to anakinfan saying she would die in response to the US turning autocratic. You then pretended that her response was normal and that I was somehow the crazy person.

    2) destroying corporate property is justified. We all know you are out here defending your class benefits, but most people's lives are ****ty and the only way to make you pay attention is to destroy your things.
     
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  7. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Gandhi seems to have accomplished a thing or two without "destroying corporate property". But, like, what would he know about bringing about change, right?
     
  8. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    1) I said your support of violence was wrong, which I continue to emphasize. I did not call anyone dramatic until people started discussing the Holocaust. Which, again, was dramatic, overwrought, and inappropriate.
    2) The issue is not whether it's "justified." It's whether it is self-defense. It isn't.
     
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  9. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    people’s lives are more important than a cell phone store, that’s why I’m focusing on the larger/broader picture here, and using self defense in a broad sense

    the violent aspects of the protest, broadly speaking, played a big role in people paying attention to the protests
     
  10. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I agree that cell phones and the stores that sell them are utterly worthless next to the lives of human beings. But attacking a cell phone store still isn't self defense. Further, any protest in American history that has had the amount of participants this one did has attracted significant media attention. The violent parts were pretty superfluous, except in making it easier for people of bad faith to make that coverage negative.
     
  11. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    BLM is a broad movement, it doesn’t make any sense to take specific events from the protests and disassociate them from the larger movement and goal

    the general goal of the BLM movement is to defend themselves from police violence, to defend themselves from becoming the next George Floyd or Eric Garner, it is about self defense because the police are the ones creating the problem to begin with
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  12. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    The violent parts are also conveniently used as an excuse for police departments to get even more military-grade weaponry
     
  13. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I agree that is the goal of overall movement and have always supported it. That doesn't mean every single action done in the name of that movement is good or defensible. Attacking a cell phone store will never be self-defense until or unless the cell phone company is attacking you, or perhaps if your attackers are using a cell phone store as a base of operations.
     
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  14. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    This wording is problematic, at best.

    I see both sides, here. I agree that it's unrealistic to think violence is never warranted, under any circumstance--that's fairy tail ****. But also, I don't think it's fair for you to "interrogate" her, and bring her kids into it. Sean, that time when BRE belittled me for being homeless, you said it was ****ed up to begin with, but he made it worse by bringing my son into it. That's a low blow, dude... accusing her of allowing her kids to be murdered, or whatever.

    Also, @Bacon164 "are you Padme?" about killed me... thanks for that. <3
     
  15. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    "that wording is problematic" harps you know what is meant here, I didn't literally strap her to a chair and interrogate her. Come on
     
  16. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    lol, I never accused you of anything even remotely like that. You are being dramatic, here.
     
  17. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    The NSA is probably enjoying this thread. However, a few people working there may eventually immigrate.
     
  18. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Well I mean there must be some NSA employees who are SW fans, right?
     
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  19. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I would hope so. I want them to produce more Snowdens.
     
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  20. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Possibly, but they may like the ISB (The Imperial Security Bureau).
     
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  21. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Ah, Snowden. A most noble trajectory: From expressing concern about governmental authoritarianism to being a Vladimir Putin apologist.

    Oh, wait.
     
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  22. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    You're being dramatic by comparing me to what BRE did and making out my wording of "interrogating" to be far worse than it is.

    You've made no actual points in this thread whatsoever, outside snipes about QGM still being banned and making a big deal over me saying the word "interrogate"
     
  23. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Dude, why are you so ****ing angry all the time?
     
  24. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    while we're waiting, which bit of being a Putin apologist are you talking about? The only incident I found at the top of results for him being a Putin apologist is this: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...swer-says-he-was-playing-role-ron-wyden.shtml

    And in there he's arguing an intention that even if indicating he did something dumb, is very much not being an apologist as what he said wasn't a defense. So, as I looked and that's the stuff I turned up, which stuff are you talking about?
     
  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015