PT Prequel Fans Don't Need Your Bad Defenses: A Criticism of "PT Apologism"

"Hayden Christensen isn't a bad actor. Its all George Lucas's fault he ruined the prequels."

"It was the script and directing."

"The movies aren't terrible. Sure, they have bad dialog, awful acting, bad CGI, a fake desert, and ruined SW, but they aren't as bad as everyone says....right?"

A common trend in the post-PT hate era of SW is these YouTube-tier comments that are essentially backhanded defenses for the PT. They are usually by people who feel insecure in their enjoyment of the PT and are afraid to be questioned by the broader fandom. However, these comments blur the line between "fan of the PT" and "hater of the PT." They are pointless comments. They don't offer any counter point to someone's anti-PT argument, instead they just reinforce the movies are "bad" but you are trying to shift the blame. It doesnt help PT fans and it means maybe you don't even know why you like the films. Also, if you don't like the films and you give these points, why? What's the point of trying to say "they aren't that bad" only to agree with the person who doesn't like them? Either way, they don't do anything but make PT fans look bad at defending them and makes the person in question giving these "defenses" look weak too.

Now, the term apologism, at least in context used by OT purists or anti-PT fans, is any PT fan that tries to rationalize "objectively bad" films. However, I personally have recoined the term for people who literally apologize for trying to defend them.

 

Some even blame GL that "he cared more about the kids than the real SW fans that were adults." Which that is also completely wrong.

Since SW movies are always supposed to be family friendly movies. All of them are far more child friendly movies compared to American Graffiti.(The movie that GL directed before Star Wars.)

 

Agree. There is this misconception that people didn't enjoy the PT prior to Gen Z growing up which is a false narrative. Gen Z definitely helped elevate the PT fandom into a much more mainstream lens, but people forget that websites like "Prequel Appreciation Society" existed when Gen Z was still in elementary school.

 

If I had a penny for every supposedly pro-PT article or video that starts out with "We all know the prequels suck", and for every time I've heard "The only people who like the PT are those who grew up with it as kids", I could buy Star Wars from Disney. And no, those sentiments aren't helping. But, baby steps, I guess.

(I grew up with the OT and loved TPM and the rest of the PT from day one).

 

As someone who was here through the ROTS part of fandom (wasn't really interested or knew what people at the time thought before then outside my own fam)

this is kinda true and untrue. When I was here there were a few people that were 'intrigued' I'd say at most because this last one was the one they wanted to see, this was THE Vader movie. I was surprised at as a SW fansite many weren't all that keen on what came before in the PT. There were many threads created asking for the PT bashing to please stop and the PT bashers sanctuary had a lot more posts than the parallel gushers thread.

There were defenders and people who loved the PT here sure, as I was one. But I'd be lying if we weren't looked at a bit like the crazy out of touch kids even in our own forum.

 

I honestly don't know if the thread should be named like this. @Deliveranze I understand completely your idea and I agree that PT doesn't need that. My point is that maybe these so called apologies cannot overthrow something that is seen as ultimate truth but actually is nothing more than a series of stupid, simplistic clichés.
For example, like this "we all know that these movies have too much CGI"... Wait a minute... Who are you who know? From where? What is the standard for too much, too few, enough and so on CGI and when it was established?! The only one and real objective fact behind this is that the prequels had some very groundbreaking CGI effects and there are even documentaries about it and that's it. And what on Earth means exactly "too much CGI"? Is not like they could go to the International space station to make real life shots in space (for example). In short, CGI is just a technique that helps the visuals of the movie and especially in sci Fi and fantasy movies is more than obligatory (better CGI, better world building, simple as that). And here comes the most ironic FACT: PT used big amount of miniatures, much more than many similar movies, in fact here one of the long lived threads here is called 'practical effects in the prequels" if I'm not mistaken.
But these YouTube self proclaimed critics don't bother to make the effort to search why on Earth so many others of their 'colleagues" quote this sentence.... It is true? No, it doesn't matter, "everyone" says it, so it is. (I don't know if I should call this way of thinking stupid or just naive). And the funny thing is that is not "everyone". These are mostly the representatives of this vlogger's community who think themselves as deep and informed alternative critics but in fact they just make videos, reciting the same series of clichés that the other vlogger just posted. Is just so annoying.

 

I'm Generation Z, and I vaguely remember when the prequels were like how the ST is now in the public consciousness (at least among kids). Though I saw the films in release order, I didn't feel any stood out as mediocre until I started falling for common online rhetoric. My early posts will suggest this, but I've since shaken off that peer pressure mentality.

Ugh, that old line.
I'm as much of an OT fan as anyone, but older people absolutely gave it criticism back in the day. It didn't invalidate the legions of fans of all ages that loved it, and the same is true of the PT.

Lucas made it clear from the get-go who his audience was. It's just happened to resonate with people far beyond the target age group.

 

E-mail me if you want a pizza roll.

 

This thread seems really pointless... What's to discuss? Just sounds like a rant haha

 

Your comment was very constructive and I insightful. And since I know you love the PT, I'm glad you came

 

You're going to hate this...

"I've always said that if you remove some of the bad romance, bad cgi and acting - It might just be the best film of them all"

I just posted that in a AOTC's thread before I saw this one! I sound like one of the people you were complaining about

 

Lmao. Given your post history, I'm gonna give your comment a grain of salt. *tastes Crait* You are now officially the spokesperson of the PT fandom. Ask me, what should have it been? Also, tell me how much ROTS means to you.

Also, as a PT fan, give me your insight or experiences of how you feel about my original post. Do you get tired of those comments, personally? I'd be happy to hear it.

 

ROTS is still my least favorite film of the entire saga, but I softened a long time ago on the PT... Why? Well pull up a chair my young apprentice and I'll tell you! It's no secret I am an OT guy through and through but it didn't start that way. I wasn't born when they were released and thought Star Wars was pure sci fi which wasn't for me. I did see Caravan of Courage as a child and loved it... I finally saw the films and thought "Wow, where have they been all my life!"

When the TPM came out I thought "Oh, this film is so much more advanced than the OT" probably because of the fight scenes, special effects, look etc etc
When the AOTC's trailer came out I was gobsmacked! Still to this day no other trailer has made me as excited for a film. Probably never will...

I have serious nostalgia tied in with my viewing experiences of TPM and AOTC's (good times in my life and very fond memories) I saw TPM about 4 - 5 times at the cinemas with the love of my life (at the time) and loved it. Saw AOTC's several times with my siblings and friends...but even as I sat there as a teenager I cringed at the dialogue. It...just...isn't...the way you talk to a girl you like Nevermind... Still a great film.

ROTS came out at a time when my love for the OT had superseded my love of the PT (which I had started to sour on) and I was at a low point in my life. I felt directionless and had just been rejected from the career I wanted so badly. It doubled down on the things I was starting to really dislike in films. CGI being a huge thorn in my side ha ha

So, for years I argued with anyone that loved the PT...until it dawned on me that the next generation of SW fans younger than I had a real love for these films, and who was I to tell them different! I felt guilty trashing films they legitimately loved. Up until that point I was surrounded by guys/girls my own age who way preferred the originals. Funnily enough I got the career I wanted and both generations went along to TFA, RO...and then TLJ came out. The Mandalorian got Star Wars popular again around the precinct.

As to my thoughts on your original post... I think there is plenty to love and plenty not to in the PT. That's why you get those people and their airy fairy non-committal answers towards the films. GOT's comes to mind. Try asking someone their feelings about the show! It starts the same way and ends the same way. Loved it...BUT

I've lost my train of thought...

 

See? We can have interesting convos and insights with this thread. Appreciate your perspective and your post.

 

Uhm..what?!?! Where does that come from. Episode I and II were heavily shot on location in Tunesia which is intensly featured in the making of docus of eighter Episode...

 

That was more of a joke on the whole "real desert" comments people made around 2015 . Just some humor on my end with that one

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...s-crew-made-the-force-awakens-special-effects

 

What you describe has been a common "sanctuary" for those who like the Prequels but somehow feel the need to validate themselves by stressing that they see the "faults". It's getting better, though.

When I joined Star Wars online discussion in 2007, that was all we got (at least in terms of online media). Nowadays there are a lot more people (both posting privately and professionally) who unapologetically stand up for the Prequels. I actually think there is another segment now that goes that way because they don't like the Prequels (mostly in geek media) but feel the pressure to accept that the Prequels aren't the disasters that they made them out to be for years because there is a generation now that demands the Prequels to be accepted.

@Deliveranze I think you didn't have to endure the short-lived fame of "Red Letter Media", so maybe I've just seen to much worse and have become kinder towards the insecure Prequels fans.

 

I have always thought the PT represents absolutely masterful filmmaking, not just in comparison with other popcorn movies, but even just compared to all films in general.

 

Affirmative.
Acting/writing is great, Eisenstein's tonal montage is great. Cinematography is 50 times better than in OT.

 

I think that the level of criticism directed at the PT has been exaggerated over the years. There exists a notion that the PT movies were universally panned and are only tolerated by the most die-hard of Star Wars fans. Because of this false narrative, fans often feel compelled to appease the cool kids whilst defending their enjoyment of the PT.

A work colleague was talking about Star Wars and asked me “You even like the prequels with Jar Jar Binks?” I think there’s an attempt to trivialise the prequels and to over exaggerate the child-friendly and whimsical aspects of the movies in order to dismiss them as juvenile and silly.

The PT doesn’t require apologists. I’m not a sequel-basher, but I really think that the inconsistencies and poorly developed world of the ST stands in stark contrast to the complicated political intrigues and clear plot direction of the PT. Since joining these boards, I’ve realised just how deep and complex the world of the PT is. There’s so many layers and subtleties to dig into with the PT. We’re still talking about the PT 15 years after the last movie was released.

 

when you bring the ST into the equations it really becomes interesting. i defend both the PT and ST from rabid OT purists. i love all three inc even in my view the fatally flawed Clones. the PT really got a kicking in the media with stuff like Big Bang Theory always taking pot shots at it... wonder what they'd make of the ST.. Sheldon, Howard etc i always thought they kinda represented one kind of fanbase

 

I don’t mean to go off topic, but I agree with your assessment of the TBBT characters. There were plenty of pot-shots taken at the PT by that show. “You’re the Jar Jar Binks of the Hofstadter family” or “I have a window built in after Phantom Menace for complaining, but I'm worried an hour won't be enough time."

I think that pop culture in general and “nerd comedy” felt free to take swipes at the PT without fear of reprisals. I would even suggest that some shows felt almost obliged to (like they were playing to the crowds). People like Simon Pegg (I’ve never understood his appeal) have openly panned the prequels and even J J Abrams seemed to take a little shot at the PT with the first spoken line of the ST.

Personally, I think that TBBT characters were misrepresented in this respect. I think that someone like Sheldon would have particularly enjoyed the PT. The ST is starting to experience a lot of criticism too and I wonder how it’s going to be portrayed in similar shows in 10 years time.

 

Sheldon hated any change in his life so i could see why he would shy away from the PT as it was just too different for some. More importantly it was the writers who threw shade on the PT. Always felt cold to me